Interview "How to make a Torment game" - Mega-Interview with Kevin Saunders and Adam Heine at Iron Tower

[Zed]

I don't mind some linearity in terms of where you can visit and at what time. PS:T was super linear at times and I don't think that hurt the game. What's important to me is the reactivity to actions and multiple solutions to quests.

"You're restricted to zone A and then you must go to zone B, but you can do so in multiple ways" = great
"-||- + You can only enter zone B by doing a specific thing" = not so great

 

[CMcC]

ksaun People want comparisons. How linear will it be compared to PS:T?

Looking at my story flowchart, I'd say: less linear. We do have major story beats that will remain the same; as ksaun noted, we're using story-based gates and other techniques for some pacing control, so you'll have to hit certain of those gates to progress. There is a distinct critical path through the game. However, there are places where the story diverges considerably based on your choices and actions.

 

[hiver]

ksaun People want comparisons. How linear will it be compared to PS:T?

Speak for yourself. Not for the "people".

I didnt elect you for anything.

Kevin: While by no means strictly linear, I expect Torment will be considerably less “open world” than some CRPGs, so we should have a pretty good sense of the PC’s power level going into each combat. This means that we should have an easier time than average in balancing the combat difficulties to provide the type of challenge we want from a design perspective.

ksaun are we to understand that game will be fairly linear?

I'm hesitant to answer your question directly because I don't know precisely what implications come with your definition of "fairly linear." =) So instead I'll say some things that maybe get at what you and others may be curious about.

When the two aspects are at odds with each other, we are favoring greater reactivity over greater freedom. (Generally speaking, the more non-linear the game, the more effort it is to have robust reactivity because there are more permutations to account for. This is not an absolute.)

You will often have choices about what you do/where you go next. You won't be able to go anywhere at any time. In general, I expect players will have considerable freedom, but we'll use story-based gates (and other techniques as well) to allow us to create the high degree of reactivity we want while keeping the scope of work manageable.

Excellent. Thats actually how it should be, since there is no actual requirement for it to be completely non-linear at all. As there never was any such requirement for the original either.

Just things that make sense.

We are not living in completely non linear reality - after all, either.

 

[villain of the story]

ksaun People want comparisons. How linear will it be compared to PS:T?

Looking at my story flowchart, I'd say: less linear. We do have major story beats that will remain the same; as ksaun noted, we're using story-based gates and other techniques for some pacing control, so you'll have to hit certain of those gates to progress. There is a distinct critical path through the game. However, there are places where the story diverges considerably based on your choices and actions.

Less than PST. Hmmm. Not sure what to make of that.

 

[Raapys]

Probably a hub system where you're mostly free to explore and do side-content as you want, but then need to progress the story to access the next hub.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

ksaun People want comparisons. How linear will it be compared to PS:T?

Looking at my story flowchart, I'd say: less linear. We do have major story beats that will remain the same; as ksaun noted, we're using story-based gates and other techniques for some pacing control, so you'll have to hit certain of those gates to progress. There is a distinct critical path through the game. However, there are places where the story diverges considerably based on your choices and actions.

Less than PST. Hmmm. Not sure what to make of that.

I don't think it necessarily means anything drastic. If you look at the main PST plot at a high-level, it was very linear. Wake up->find Pharod -> Tomb -> find Ravel -> Curst -> Fortress. You really can't switch up the order. Even within those major points there were smaller events that had to happen in a particular order. Its just that the C&C was so good that at in different playthroughs each of those points could have significant differences in the details. So even something as small as allowing you multiple ways to get the orb from Pharod would make the game less linear.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Less than PST. Hmmm. Not sure what to make of that.

Why? You wanted it to be more linear than PS:T? o_O

 

[villain of the story]

I actually somehow read that as "less non-linear".

I would certainly appreciate less linearity.

 

[crawlkill]

You will often have choices about what you do/where you go next. You won't be able to go anywhere at any time. In general, I expect players will have considerable freedom, but we'll use story-based gates (and other techniques as well) to allow us to create the high degree of reactivity we want while keeping the scope of work manageable.

That sense of having a whole world you could poke your nose into at any time was always awesome in BG2, but I'll take more meaningful decisionmaking over what amounts to no more than choosing what order to do content in any day. Having the game remember what you've done and respond to it is really the heart of this kind of experience. Nonlinearity is kind of a fun extra. I feel like what people really want when they -say- nonlinear is that two playthroughs should be able to differ from one another, and Tides sounds like it'll be anything but the same every time.

Unrelated, pantie-wetting over the prospect of potentially being able to play the game without killing any sentient creatures. Definitely nnnot an option in the old Infinity Engine games, but I love punishing myself with nonlethal runs in games that bother to notice I've done so (Alpha Protocol: Orphans made: Zero!).

 

[villain of the story]

Unrelated, pantie-wetting over the prospect of potentially being able to play the game without killing any sentient creatures. Definitely nnnot an option in the old Infinity Engine games, but I love punishing myself with nonlethal runs in games that bother to notice I've done so (Alpha Protocol: Orphans made: Zero!).

People you put off to sleep with tranquillizers got cancer and the others you knocked out got spinal trauma. No orphans but you wrecked many a lives.

 

[crawlkill]

People you put off to sleep with tranquillizers got cancer and the others you knocked out got spinal trauma. No orphans but you wrecked many a lives.

oh, I know. but a little maiming might remind people not to wander around with implements of death in hand in the future. they'll have a chance to reflect on the error of violence.

 

[villain of the story]

Tell that to the little kids who will no longer be able to play with their bed-bound fathers on meds.

 

[crawlkill]

oh man thank fuck if they'd added a "distressed breeders:" count to the game I'd've made sure I took down every single enemy

 

[Septaryeth]

Unrelated, pantie-wetting over the prospect of potentially being able to play the game without killing any sentient creatures. Definitely nnnot an option in the old Infinity Engine games, but I love punishing myself with nonlethal runs in games that bother to notice I've done so (Alpha Protocol: Orphans made: Zero!).

People you put off to sleep with tranquillizers got cancer and the others you knocked out got spinal trauma. No orphans but you wrecked many a lives.

Tranquilizers don't give people cancers...'least not with one shot.
You should be more worried about the how quick your enemies fall unconscious,
that's usually a sign of overdosing, which could just stop their respiratory functions and kill them anyway.

 

[villain of the story]

I have black belt in tranquiollisers and Dark Tranquillity is one of my favourite bands. Don't question my authority.

 

[Wyrmlord]

I have played Torment four times over the past decade since the age of 15, until there was simply nothing new to discover in the game.

I realize that if I played it for a fifth time, it would feel like a routine activity at this point of time.

The biggest reason for to be hyped for a Torment sequel is so that I can relive that same feeling as if I was experiencing it for the first time, rather than have to go through Torment again and make it a more predictable experience.

It's why I was pleased with this statement: "We’re not explicitly attempting to ”compete” with Planescape: Torment in terms of its writing, characters, and storytelling. We are making a game that places focus on those elements, but we’ll allow Torment: Tides of Numenera to organically become its own game." If this game tries to live in the shadow of Torment, then it won't feel like something fresh, something new, as Torment did. Rather, it should be inspired by the original game to be something new, something different.

 

[Misconnected]

oh man thank fuck if they'd added a "distressed breeders:" count to the game I'd've made sure I took down every single enemy

Wouldn't Distressed Breeders be more the sort of thing you got holding hands with your boyfriend in public & such? :D

 

[Absalom]

*snip*

Torment differed from most games in that it had an excellent story and shit game play. I really don't know what aspect of this "game" they want to revive for tides of Numa Numa (Or whatever the fuck they're calling it.) Almost certainly they can't match the plot. They have a much larger staff and a lower common denominator to please. Most likely this will be banal, shit, boring.

I will still (maybe) buy it and try it out. Which is more than I would give to most games in its class.

 

[Infinitron]

lower common denominator to please

Uh, that's bullshit. Planescape: Torment was a game developed by a major publisher named Interplay for a mass market and featured promises of "HOT BABES" in its vision document.
Numenera on the other hand is custom-made for a niche audience of backers. Please don't fucking delude yourself.

 

[Absalom]

I doubt you played Planescape: Torment for its' "HOT BABE" system, Infinitron. Maybe it was the way it replaced an armour system with an tattoo one. Or its emphasis on character development. And I remember the Torment trailers on the old Fallout 1 discs, I don't remember any "HOT BABES" then.

I remember Interplays old logo
"For Gamers, by Gamers"

Maybe the modern game will follow the same pattern. But I doubt it.

 

[Brother None]

Denominator aside (which I'd say we have the same audience as PS:T actually reached (not the audience Interplay PR was necessarily hoping for back then)), we also do not have a much larger staff. It's probably about the same.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't remember any "HOT BABES" then.

http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/file?ref=0&id=208&top=Files

On Ego Masturbation:

We gots Gold, Glory, Power and Hero Worship. Why save a world you nothing about and have absolutely no attachment to? Fuck that. We know what you really want to do – you want to run rampant in a world where you are a god.​

On the player’s growing reputation:

Sure, you may be a fat dateless loser in real life, but in Last Rites you get the women and respect you’ve always craved.​

On a similar note:

“BABES.” AS IN, “TRUCKLOADS OF.”​

Tons of Total Babes: Tis game will have lots of babes that make the player go “wow”. There will be fiendish babes, human babes, angelic babes, asian babes and even undead babes. These babes will be present without nipple-age and will all regrettably behave within the TSR Code of Ethics”​

And later:

AND MORE BABES​

Babes: Think babes. Then think more babes.​

No lowest common denominator here, no sir

Maybe the modern game will follow the same pattern. But I doubt it.

Have you actually read anything about it, or are you simply trolling?

 

[Absalom]

Alrite I haven't seen that old PR campaign. Makes me lose respect for it a lil bit. Thanks for cheapening my P:T experience Infinitron!
(I'm kidding)
(To some extent)

As for having read anything about it, yes I have, but I dislike burying people in my assumptions and conclusions. I generally comment on only the latest happenings.

If I was trolling, you would know because you'd leave the thread laughing out loud with a smile on your face.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Please don't fucking delude yourself.

Delude yourself that the game will suck? You usually delude yourself that the game will be good.

and featured promises of "HOT BABES" in its vision document.

The vision document was not public, it was for the management. As you can also see in the link you provided. I don't think Torment was actually marketed as a game with babes.

Now, I'm not saying that I think Numenera will cater to the lowest common denominator, I haven't seen anything to make me believe that (as opposed to PE), but I just wanted to correct you on these very important points.

 

[Infinitron]

Delude yourself that the game will suck?

No, delude yourself that PS:T was meant for a "higher common denominator" than ToN.

Kickstarter games are consciously, intentionally being produced for a selected niche of players - the people willing to back it. Black Isle's games were not.