Immaturity in JRPGs: Fact or fiction?

[Sigourn]

Kids saving the world in JRPG is as cringe as an adult saving the world in CRPG

Yes, but no. JRPGs usually have disproportionate forces fighting against each other, e.g. a bunch of faggots against a huge empire. This is incidentally why I didn't like Fallout 3's plot at all, since it's basically the same thing: 19-year old against remnants of the U.S. civilization. At least the MC was aided by the Brotherhood of Steel, which makes Fallout 2's plot even more stupid by comparison (at the very least there's the stealth option and you could always think of the Enclave squad and the turrents as the canon option). It wouldn't matter if said teens were foretold by prophecy, which is a half-assed plot device but at least "makes sense".

 

[Viata]

A single guy against an empire of mutants is not disproportionate, right? Ok then, mate.

 

[Momock]

I want good plot, doesn't need to be madure, but they should stop with the "save the world" bullshit. May as well be "destroy the world"(I hate World Destruction for its bait plot) or just a guy traveling around, doing things here and there, nothing at the scale of saving the world/country. Can't have a great adventure without having to save 10 billion people, it seems.

That's why I liked Trails in the Sky so much in the first place. Turns out in the end that there is a huge worldwide saturday morning cartoon conspiracy in the shadows and shit, but too late, I was hooked.

 

[Sigourn]

A single guy against an empire of mutants is not disproportionate, right? Ok then, mate.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. I also think Fallout's story is shit and overrated, but the ending is cool so I tend to forgive it.

EDIT:

Actually, lore-wise the Vault Dweller should be able to dispose of the Super Mutants with his Power Armor. You can also equip the head thingie to face The Master, and you can also give him evidence that proves him wrong.

 

[Black Angel]

I just decided to stop replying to your posts here anymore because there doesn't seem to be anything worthwhile for me from getting through that thick skull of yours, when

I also think Fallout's story is shit and overrated

Well, I guess the only thing I have to reply to this is by doing the good ol' tag mention

Here, enjoy

 

[Jacob]

i want to make a game where the world saves you.

 

[Sigourn]

I just decided to stop replying to your posts here anymore because there doesn't seem to be anything worthwhile for me from getting through that thick skull of yours

You already are.

Well, I guess the only thing I have to reply to this is by doing the good ol' tag mention

Here, enjoy

Fallout's story is shit and if you think otherwise you are a moron who doesn't know what a good story is. The reason everyone remembers Fallout's "story" is because:

• "You can convince the bad guy he is wrong!", which doesn't constitute "story", but a gameplay mechanic.
  
• The ending, which is fantastic, but doesn't constitute "a story", just the end of it.

There's no character development whatsoever. It's literally "you go into the world, solve the problems, you come back and you are told to leave". It's literally "find the water chip -> get the water chip -> go kill Super Mutants -> the end". Arcanum had a far more interesting story that ended up being a let down because of the ending. The Witcher had a far better story as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if thinking Fallout has a great story leads you to think JRPG stories are some of the best ever written, considering that's what JRPG fans actually believe.

 

[Tigranes]

True, what we really needed was for Vault Dweller to take Tandi on a rickety gondola over a river of toxic nuclear waste, exchange pregnant pauses and moody conversations, and then have a flashback to when Jack, VD's cooler older-brother figure, was still there to show him how things are done, all before the snowboarding minigame at the Casino

 

[Bruma Hobo]

i want to make a game where the world saves you.

It's called Ultima IV.

 

[Beastro]

Another person who got memed by spoony and forgot about FF8 even though it's the most mature FF.
inb4 b-but they are 17!
so what

Wut

It reeks of a teenager trying to act like an adult "maturity" on an order of magnitude worse than FFVII.

FFIII and FFIX are silly in ways but they lack that overt attempt to be mature that seems to have been what took ahold over the series since then, save for the minor bum with FFIX.

Then there's Metal Gear & Tenchu if we add them here as well. I'm not interested in Syphon Filter because it seems goofy, I'm not interested in Tomb Raider either. There aren't many franchises left for me to choose from. Feel free to mention good action-platformers and action-adventures.

I'd recommend giving it a shot, and that comes from someone who thought Metal Gear was goofy.

The real name of the genre should be console style rpg. It makes sense since the entire genre started by Japs appyling wizardry and visual novel gameplay elements to a console action adventure game.And thus dragon quest and the "jrpg" genre was born.You can easily make a jrpg in the west if you just follow genre conventions.

Thats perfect!

It would shove Oblivion and Skyrim in with them!

I just decided to stop replying to your posts here anymore because there doesn't seem to be anything worthwhile for me from getting through that thick skull of yours

You already are.

Well, I guess the only thing I have to reply to this is by doing the good ol' tag mention

Here, enjoy

Fallout's story is shit and if you think otherwise you are a moron who doesn't know what a good story is. The reason everyone remembers Fallout's "story" is because:

• "You can convince the bad guy he is wrong!", which doesn't constitute "story", but a gameplay mechanic.
  
• The ending, which is fantastic, but doesn't constitute "a story", just the end of it.

There's no character development whatsoever. It's literally "you go into the world, solve the problems, you come back and you are told to leave". It's literally "find the water chip -> get the water chip -> go kill Super Mutants -> the end". Arcanum had a far more interesting story that ended up being a let down because of the ending. The Witcher had a far better story as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if thinking Fallout has a great story leads you to think JRPG stories are some of the best ever written, considering that's what JRPG fans actually believe.

OK, nm.

You're just increasingly being an ornery curmudgeon IIT.

 

[Jacob]

What's a "trope" btw.

 

[Sigourn]

I'd recommend giving it a shot, and that comes from someone who thought Metal Gear was goofy.

With Metal Gear I'm on this weird fence between "got to play it since people won't shut up about Metal Gear" and "seems like something I wouldn't like at all", what with the stealth mechanics of the games that couldn't be any more different than Thief's, the outlandish and convoluted plots, etc.

OK, nm.

You're just increasingly being an ornery curmudgeon IIT.

I don't think I'm saying anything strange. It's just that the Codex holds Fallout on a pedestal. Which makes sense if we take it as an RPG, but if we consider its story and nothing more,it wouldn't be as interesting. The best parts of Fallout are what happens in between the story points, like going to Shady Sands, rescuing Tandi, going to Junktown, dealing with Gizmo, going to The Hub, going to Necropolis, etc etc. One can speedrun the game and it wouldn't be anywhere near the same.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

Fact and Fiction. jRPGs do tend to be immature with their little super-deformed characters or creepy androgynous teenagers, but they don't have to be. Sometimes the game/battle systems are deep and complex and allow no room for error, and occasionally even the storylines feel literary and sophisticated and don't rely on standard RPG tropes. Personally some of my favorite RPG experiences were with jRPGs. They can be bizarre and full of weird charm due to the wacky Japanese culture. I like that.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

i want to make a game where the world saves you.

The enemies are your friends, staging an intervention. If you "win" the visual novel dialogue boss fight at the end the slides show you convincing them to leave because you're fine now but as soon as the door closes they hear a gunshot. Indie game of the year.

 

[Viata]

i want to make a game where the world saves you.

Just play any Dragon Ball Z and defeat the last boss using a Genki Dama.

 

[Egosphere]

I've tried playing a few jrpgs like Chrono Cross, Suikoden 2, Xenogears etc. and always give up after an hour or two. My biggest gripe is that the genre doesn't even try to suspend your disbelief. The world building is inane and feels like it's just made up as you go along. The characters are always some kids running somewhere for fuck knows what reason. Don't get me wrong, a game about the children's crusade would be cool, just not when the kids are dressed like harlequins fighting talking puffer fish or some other such bollocks.

 

[Sigourn]

I've tried playing a few jrpgs like Chrono Cross, Suikoden 2, Xenogears etc. and always give up after an hour or two. My biggest gripe is that the genre doesn't even try to suspend your disbelief. The world building is inane and feels like it's just made up as you go along. The characters are always some kids running somewhere for fuck knows what reason. Don't get me wrong, a game about the children's crusade would be cool, just not when the kids are dressed like harlequins fighting talking puffer fish or some other such bollocks.

Tales of the Abyss has some general of sorts going to some place because of some very important reason (he has to go search for a missing man who is like a symbol of his kingdom, or something like that), and his sword trainee goes "YOU CAN'T GO, WHO IS GOING TO TRAIN ME?!!!!". The guy then replies "I'll have someone train you", and the kid goes "But I want YOU to train me!".

This would be funny if the kid in question was 7, but he is 17 or something. That's a whole different level of stupidity that made the protagonist insufferable.

 

[Beastro]

I don't think I'm saying anything strange. It's just that the Codex holds Fallout on a pedestal. Which makes sense if we take it as an RPG, but if we consider its story and nothing more,it wouldn't be as interesting. The best parts of Fallout are what happens in between the story points, like going to Shady Sands, rescuing Tandi, going to Junktown, dealing with Gizmo, going to The Hub, going to Necropolis, etc etc. One can speedrun the game and it wouldn't be anywhere near the same.

It's not the Fallout thing, it's the general trejectory you're taking here.

I started out seeing and agreeing with the point you were making, but the closer things got to this page the more and more that agreement was strained.

 

[Momock]

I've tried playing a few jrpgs like Chrono Cross, Suikoden 2, Xenogears etc. and always give up after an hour or two.

I dropped them really quickly too. There is something wrong with the Square games that make me dislike almost all of them: they have stupid plot/characters/setting but the tone is dead serious, as if they are unaware of the bullshit they're wrinting. They also have bleh character designs (they are half anime, half realistic, it's fucking vomitive).

 

[Nathir]

I regret reading through this thread.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

There's nothing wrong with characters taking the stupid plot seriously. We know it's a game, they don't.

A single guy against an empire of mutants is not disproportionate, right? Ok then, mate.

But he was just a random guy in the right place at the right time, nothing corny and contrived like a chosen one or anything. Anyone could have done it!

(this excuse is so terrible)

 

[Sigourn]

There's nothing wrong with characters taking the stupid plot seriously. We know it's a game, they don't.

A single guy against an empire of mutants is not disproportionate, right? Ok then, mate.

But he was just a random guy in the right place at the right time, nothing corny and contrived like a chosen one or anything. Anyone could have done it!

(this excuse is so terrible)

Let's just ignore my response where I explain the Chosen One has access to Power Armor that would put Super Mutants to shame when it came to the lore, a mental device to protect himself against The Master's attacks, and evidence to prove him wrong. God, JRPG fans are pathetic.

 

[laclongquan]

I've tried playing a few jrpgs like Chrono Cross, Suikoden 2, Xenogears etc. and always give up after an hour or two. My biggest gripe is that the genre doesn't even try to suspend your disbelief. The world building is inane and feels like it's just made up as you go along. The characters are always some kids running somewhere for fuck knows what reason. Don't get me wrong, a game about the children's crusade would be cool, just not when the kids are dressed like harlequins fighting talking puffer fish or some other such bollocks.

Dawg, Chronos Cross is like demanding you suspend your belief from the get-go~ The puffer fishes is like a gut check. You pass the check, you can enjoy the game.
From the look of it, you fail the check! My condolence~

CC is more about the feels than the actual logical grimdark thoughts. If you want some blood and gore splash on your screen there is nothing like that. CC is like some colourful dreams you have then you wake up~

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Let's just ignore my response

It was dumb so that's what I did, yes. One man armies are retarded. They can be retarded fun but still retarded.

 

[laclongquan]

Fallout's story is shit and if you think otherwise you are a moron who doesn't know what a good story is. The reason everyone remembers Fallout's "story" is because:

• "You can convince the bad guy he is wrong!", which doesn't constitute "story", but a gameplay mechanic.
  
• The ending, which is fantastic, but doesn't constitute "a story", just the end of it.

There's no character development whatsoever. It's literally "you go into the world, solve the problems, you come back and you are told to leave". It's literally "find the water chip -> get the water chip -> go kill Super Mutants -> the end". Arcanum had a far more interesting story that ended up being a let down because of the ending. The Witcher had a far better story as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if thinking Fallout has a great story leads you to think JRPG stories are some of the best ever written, considering that's what JRPG fans actually believe.

You are reading the story wrong. The key element, despite what everyone think, is to destroy the mutant making scheme. Assassination of the Master is an important part of it. Convince him that's he's wrong then KILL him is the proper path, because that way we kill him body and soul. The storyfags think convincing is the key is just the storyfag's innerfag talking. The bloodthirsty us know killing him is the key.

The ending also not just an end, but the beginning of something else, something new and wonder. It tells of a betrayal and also the start of a new society. That's why it's bittersweet but not bitter. There is even NO regret because we do get to splatter that fucker's brain onto the Vault wall. Which is why so many love Fallout1's ending.