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1eyedking Is Thief a downgrade from Deus Ex/System Shock 2/etc?

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Siel, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. Juan_Carlo Arcane

    Juan_Carlo
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    Yeah, its mastery is primarily narrative and choice based. You can approach tasks in a bunch of ways. The brilliance of Deus Ex, though, is that a lot of these aren't necessarily explicitly scripted. The designers just allowed for the narrative to hold together and react, regardless of what the player does. I don't think it masters any of its various gameplay mechanics terribly well, though (e.g. stealth, combat). Unlike Thief, I don't think Deus Ex would be fun to play without its overarching narrative and the freedom of seeing how your actions affect it. Whereas out of context Thief levels are still fun to play even if they have zero narrative, mainly because the gameplay is so good.

    I do think the newer Deus Ex's are better at combat, but I also think they are way more tedious to play stealth. Mainly because of boring level design (who wants to crawl through vents!) and an over reliance on "press a button to auto play an animation" stealth take downs of enemies, which removes the surprise, variability, and skill of knocking people out. Thief's method of just aiming at the right spot with the black jack is a much better method of knock out, as you have to time it perfectly, you can sometimes mess up, and you can even knock people out a split second after they are startled if you time it right (which can be exploited if you are skilled enough). It's a shame that 90% of all stealth games since Thief have taken the "press a button to auto-play a take down animation" approach to stealth. It's way more boring.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
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  2. Multidirectional Arcane

    Multidirectional
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    Don't listen to those codexers, some modder said they are stupid.
    I will play your mod eventually though, no doubt. Sometime after I'm done replaying Thiefs. :smug:
     
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  3. anvi Liturgist Village Idiot

    anvi
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    Thanks I'm gonna try that. I like ARPGs, System Shock is one of the best games I ever played, but something about Deus Ex kept me away. I'll try again.

    p.s. Are the new games good? Human Revolution or something and some other one. I assumed they would be like the originals only dumbed down and shit, like all reboots.
     
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  4. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
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    ^ You have shit taste, what do you care?

    Hardly. And even if that was the case, we are talking about something that was added to the final product after so many years of work? I suppose in theory if Looking Glass was allowed to work on their games for an indefinite amount of time they might produce the perfect "Immersive Sim" but the reality is quite different. If you want to perfect a certain gameplay element you have to narrow your scope because there will always be issues with limited resources or time.
     
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  5. Dev_Anj Learned

    Dev_Anj
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    He's also conveniently ignoring the fact that, much like in other fields of art, improving a single component leads to tradeoffs in others. For example, Deus Ex simply can't provide as intense action or unique fights that a full on shooter can, since it has to accomodate stealth players. On the flip side, making the AI more aggressive to make combat more intense compromises how well the stealth works.

    But no, got to drop in to insult people and plug your mod even after handling the situation poorly and pissing almost everyone off.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
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  6. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
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    Well, typical modders gonna typical. I guess drama is the fuel that keeps them going. Not to say i'm ungrateful for the work they do but i don't see the point in getting into those kind of shitstorms.
     
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  7. anvi Liturgist Village Idiot

    anvi
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    Thinking Hitman is better than Thief is not shit taste, it is just common sense.
     
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  8. groke Arcane Patron

    groke
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    Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera BattleTech
    :M
     
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  9. Ash Arcane

    Ash
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    Fitting of a stalker to repeat a statement I've made in the past back at me as if it were your own unique insights.

    You. I dropped in to insult you. Why the fuck are you STILL attempting to critique and police my behavior despite following me around like a butthurt weirdo ranting inane nonsense at me for a year? It boggles the mind.

    But fear not, as you've accomplished something. Henceforth I will be more professional and reserved.
     
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  10. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
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    Get out of here, stalker.
     
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  11. bloodlover Arcane

    bloodlover
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    The downgrade would have come eventually so idk if it really matters where it came from. Stealth is a niche genre and the sales from such a pure game will never be satisfactory for today's market.
     
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  12. Alienman Arcane Patron

    Alienman
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Highly entertaining thread.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. gromit Arcane

    gromit
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    ftfy. Really surprised by your inability to understand that "agency" is maybe the only thing that nearly consistently binds the hivemind tastes together, even with wildly different priorities for it, and definitions of it.

    Hitman is pretty well loved around here, but-and-because it is what it is: an idiosyncratic place with a nice menu and great rotating specials. Yet here you are, telling us you don't know why we like cooking because "home kitchens are all just, like, dead things and metal, so, whatever, you just pop a can of Spaghetti-O's into the microwave, and it's not nearly as good as the carbonara up the street."

    Well, you're right, it isn't...
     
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  14. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    Oh hey it's a thread about Thief

    Just dropping in to say it's the best game ever
     
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  15. Icewater Ice ice baby Patron

    Icewater
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    :salute:

    There are many games out there possibly better in a single or maybe a few aspects, but none that I can think of as all-around well executed as Thief. I'd bundle the two original games together and place them squarely at the top of my list.
     
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  16. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    Had no problems stepping into a turd. The only problem I can think of is the smell.
     
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  17. Morality Games Arcane Patron

    Morality Games
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    :hmmm:

    I've never played Thief, but System Shock 2 and the original Deus Ex are legendary games, undimmed in glory until the breaking of the world.
     
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  18. Ash Arcane

    Ash
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    All that is worthy in this world is Thief. All hail Thief, the medieval bow shooter with no direction for much of development. All hail Stephen Russell's sexy raspy man chords *masturbates furiously*. System Shock? Ultima Underworld? Immersive Sim? Lol, what's that? Go kill urself faggot, even if you think Thief's a good game and possibly the best stealth game of all time despite the decline YOU DO NOT BASH MY TOY/RELIGION.
     
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  19. anvi Liturgist Village Idiot

    anvi
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    Thief is boiled garbage compared to System Shock. Especially SS1.
     
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  20. tormund Arcane

    tormund
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    TBH, I never encountered direct hatred for either SS or DE. I did so for Thief, for the first time, as well as for Thief's fanbase. Though, if a game manages to trigger autist nerds so, then it is all the better for that.
     
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  21. Melan Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Melan
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    With very few exceptions, Thief fans are also Deus Ex fans, who are also System Shock 2 fans, who (if they have played it) are also System Shock 1 fans, who are also Thief fans. The argument that there is some kind of major rivalry is retarded.

    The only big difference is that Thief has an active fan mission scene and, sadly, DX/SS2 don't.
     
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  22. Dev_Anj Learned

    Dev_Anj
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    And you've detailed some good reasons in the past for why they don't. ;) Here they are again, for the interested:

     
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  23. Volrath Arcane Patron

    Volrath
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    Who coined the term "immersive sim"? I'd like to know so I can tell that person to go and kill himself.
     
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  24. Arch-Vile Learned

    Arch-Vile
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    Warren Spector, I believe. :lol:
     
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  25. KILLER BEAR Educated

    KILLER BEAR
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    ^Warren Spector

    EDIT: Damn, too late
     
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