MGS V vs Sniper Elite 4 vs Hitman

[sullynathan]

Theres actually not a lot of ammo for the rifle, and you burn trough it rather quickly in a firefight. Also the pistol is pretty hard to use and if i recall isnt completely silent either.

The Pistol isn't hard to use if you pick off your shots. Switch to red dot or wait till your reticle closes to shoot. I've played enough Splinter Cell to know that.

In SC1 and PT, it varied from mission to mission but I recall it usually being 60 rounds on F2000 and 40 on 5.7 on spawn. However both of those games were made with firefights in mind and ammunition was a lot more common around the map.
In Chaos Theory you had 3 equipment choices, Assault, Stealth and Redding's Recommendation. Assault started you out with 90 shots on the F2000 and 60 on the 5.7. Redding's Recommendation was 60 and 40, and Stealth was 30 and 20. Assault and Redding's also gave you a underbarrel shotgun or 20mm sniper depending on mission instead of a foregrip or launcher, Stealth only gave you a foregrip and launcher in all missions.
Yes, truth be told it is possible that if you hit 100% of your shots on the head, you can kill most of the NPCs on the map with just 1 or 2 magazines. Issue is, the Five SeveN and F2000 are really inaccurate. The only truly accurate weapon in the entire game is the 20mm sniper attachment on the F2000 and sticky shockers/airfoil rounds. Even if you are aiming perfectly using the foregrip, holding breath and using sight, you will miss due to the inherent inaccuracy of the 2 main weapons and your options then are to have a firefight or savescum, the former of which will rapidly decrease your ammo reserves since enemies don't go down easy with bodyshots.

I played M+KB, I rarely missed shots in Chaos Theory as long as I got the drop on enemies. I wait until my reticle closes down to the dot.

 

[unfairlight]

The Pistol isn't hard to use if you pick off your shots. Switch to red dot or wait till your reticle closes to shoot. I've played enough Splinter Cell to know that.

That's SC1 and PT only, where guns were more accurate and deadly in general.

I played M+KB, I rarely missed shots in Chaos Theory as long as I got the drop on enemies. I wait until my reticle closes down to the dot.

I've played it 5 times with MKB, I've probably played CT more than anyone on this forum. I think you're remembering things wrong, it's really common to miss purely due to random inaccuracy on the F2000, especially so if you aren't using foregrip. At 5m and beyond you are basically guaranteed to miss at least 1 out of 10 of your shots, even at perfect accuracy aiming at the exact same spot at the exact same accuracy. Go ahead and play the game again for yourself and see for yourself. I shot at the guy torturing the guy in the bathtub 30 times at the same spot in the first mission and I missed 4 out of 30 shots. I can record a video of it too. This is just how Chaos Theory is.

 

[Master]

I know you have to wait till the reticule closes. The problem is by that time you are already dead. Or do i just suck at the game?? Im talking about taking out several dudes at once. Its almost impossible with the pistol and with the rifle not without unloading half a clip.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

The game mechanics MGSV has encourages and rewards a stealthy way of playing. You can even disable the bullet time for when you get spotted, and the game aknowledges this by giving you more points. Of course, you can go full rambo. Using Quiet offensively, helicopter and air strikes. But the game will punish your playstyle with better equipped enemies, fully armored ones, more cameras and night vision googles for them, helicopters patroling the zones... and of course, if you go killing everybody you can't recruit them. Which is a notorious letdown since the soldiers that join automatically to your army are worse than the ones you can capture. Which means you will slowdown the Mother base's development, and with it the development of every gadget.

The Metal gear series is one of the first and most popular videogames franchises in terms of stealth in games. But they will never have been pure and "hardcore" stealth a la Thief. Specially after MGS2, game that improved a lot the gunplay and added the first person aiming. This series falls in the side of franchises like Tenchu, where stealth is the best and encouraged option, but not the only option you can use and will need to use during the game. The have decent variety in weaponry, they have boss fights, they have parts where the only way to go is fucking people with a FAMAS bullet storm. They were named "tactical espionage action" for a reason.

 

[unfairlight]

Im talking about taking out several dudes at once

Doing that with guns is indeed practically impossible. The AI reacts extremely fast in SC and on expert difficulty on Chaos Theory it's 3 shots at the absolute maximum, usually 2 and rarely 1 to die. Which is why you just don't do that, you instead split one of them off from the main group or use flash grenades or sticky camera sleeping gas.

But the game will punish your playstyle with better equipped enemies

This is complete bullshit and nothing of this sort was ever implemented in the actual game. They got better equipment no matter what you did, that marketing bullshit was just that and nothing more.

 

[sullynathan]

I know you have to wait till the reticule closes. The problem is by that time you are already dead. Or do i just suck at the game?? Im talking about taking out several dudes at once. Its almost impossible with the pistol and with the rifle not without unloading half a clip.

Be stealthy. I usually don't engage more than one enemy at a time.

I've played it 5 times with MKB, I've probably played CT more than anyone on this forum. I think you're remembering things wrong, it's really common to miss purely due to random inaccuracy on the F2000, especially so if you aren't using foregrip. At 5m and beyond you are basically guaranteed to miss at least 1 out of 10 of your shots, even at perfect accuracy aiming at the exact same spot at the exact same accuracy. Go ahead and play the game again for yourself and see for yourself. I shot at the guy torturing the guy in the bathtub 30 times at the same spot in the first mission and I missed 4 out of 30 shots. I can record a video of it too. This is just how Chaos Theory is.

I'm not remembering it wrong, I just played Sam close to the guards. When I said pick off enemies, I didn't mean shooting them from a mile away

 

[unfairlight]

At close range you might as well stab them in the dark, idiot. What's even the point in shooting them then?

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

This is complete bullshit and nothing of this sort was ever implemented in the actual game. They got better equipment no matter what you did, that marketing bullshit was just that and nothing more.

Nope, you're wrong. It is a thing and it's called Revenge system:

The revenge system is used in Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain as a game mechanic that adjusts difficulty based on various aspects of the player's methods of infiltrating outposts. When the level of a revenge category is increased it increases difficulty by adding better gear to a certain percentage of spawned AI. Some common examples of this include soldiers wearing helmets if the player has been neutralizing them through headshots and wearing night-vision goggles if the player has been repeatedly caught infiltrating at night, multiple sorties in a row.

One level represents one hundred revenge points (RP) earned for that category. The level of each revenge category is not relayed to the player in detail but is instead shown in a way that it can be approximated. There are icons that represent each category on the iDroid map and these are colored in depending on how prepared an enemy is in each category. Transparency represents no preparedness outside of scripted instances within missions and side ops, white represents little preparedness, dark red represents high preparedness and colors in between white and red are somewhere in the middle.

Levels of enemy preparedness are capped at certain amounts until scripted points in the game are reached.

• Before completing mission 6 - "Where do the Bees Sleep"
  • Max first level
• Before completing mission 12 - "Hellbound"
  • Max second level
• Before completing mission 18 - "Blood Runs Deep"
  • Max third level
• Before completing mission 23 - "The White Mamba"
  • Max fourth level
• Before completing mission 30 - "Skull Face"
  • Max fifth level
• After completing mission 30 - "Skull Face"
  • Max sixth level[1]

Fulton response

Category level interval: 0,1,2,2,3,3

• 0
  • Low Fulton response
    • Determines aspects of AI behavior towards seeing balloons
• 1
  • Default Fulton response
• 2
  • High Fulton response
• 3
  • Special Fulton response[2][3][4]

Trigger:

• Enemy spotted a comrade being fultoned (+15 RP)[5]

Decay on mission completion:

• Level 0 (-10 RP)
• Level 1 (-20 RP)
• Level 2 (-30 RP)
• Level 3 (-40 RP)

Headshot response

Category level interval: 0,1,2,3,5,7

• 0
  • Will not be wearing helmets
• 1
  • 10% will wear helmets
• 2
  • 20% will wear helmets
• 3
  • 30% will wear helmets
• 5
  • 50% will wear helmets
• 7
  • 70% will wear helmets[3]

Trigger:

• Player eliminates a soldier via headshot (+5 RP)[5]
  • Includes thrown items and also triggers for shooting soldiers that are being held up.

Decay on mission completion:

• Level 0 (-10 RP)
• Level 1 (-20 RP)
• Level 2 (-30 RP)
• Level 3 (-40 RP)
• Level 5 & 7 (-50 RP)[2]

Covert actions response

Category level interval: 0,1,2,3,4,5

• 0
  • No security devices
  • Low stealth preparedness
    • Soldier cure and speed abilities
    • Soldier notice and reflex abilities
  • Low holdup resistance
• 1
  • Surveillance cameras installed at major bases (certain missions only)
  • Default stealth preparedness
• 2
  • Decoys deployed
  • Default holdup resistance
• 3 (pink icon)
  • Mines deployed
  • High stealth preparedness
• 4
  • Decoys actively move
  • Gun cameras replace surveillance cameras (certain missions only)
  • High holdup resistance
• 5
  • Special stealth preparedness[3][4]

Triggers (N/A to free roam):

• Player eliminated a guard during a stealth phase (+5 RP)
  • Stealth phase meaning the guard was not suspicious.
  • Does not include holdups
• Player captured a guard post or outpost during a stealth phase (+15 RP)[5]
• Player completed a mission with more stealth phase elimination points than for combat alert
  • Levels 0-3 (+5 RP)
  • Level 4 (+25 RP)
  • Level 5 (0 RP)

Decay on mission completion:

• Player completed a mission with more combat alert elimination points than for stealth phases
  • Levels 0 & 1 (-20 RP)
  • Level 2 (-25 RP)
  • Level 3 (-30 RP)
  • Level 4 (-75 RP)
  • Level 5 (-100 RP)
• Player completed a mission with equal combat alert and stealth phase elimination points
  • Levels 0-2 (0 RP)
  • Level 3 (-20 RP)
  • Level 4 (-50 RP)
  • Level 5 (-60 RP)[2]

Combat response

Category level interval: 0,1,2,3,4,5

• 0
  • Low combat preparedness
    • Soldier shoot, reload and grenade abilities
    • Soldier HP and speed abilities
  • Default equipment
• 1
  • Default combat preparedness
  • 25% wear vest body armor
  • Short-range guard type
    • Shotgun ≤ grade 2
  • Mid-range guard type
    • Machine gun ≤ grade 2
• 2
  • 50% wear vest body armor
  • Shield ≤ grade 1
• 3 (pink icon)
  • High combat preparedness
  • 75% wear vest body armor
  • Close-range guard type change
    • Strong shotgun ≤ grade 2
  • Mid-range guard type change
    • Strong machine gun ≤ grade 2
  • Armor ≤ grade 1
  • Vehicle reinforcements (missions 03 & 35 only)
    • Can be called in once
    • Standard armored vehicles and helicopters
• 4
  • 100% wear vest body armor
  • Short-range guard type change
    • Strong shotgun ≤ grade 4
  • Mid-range guard type change
    • Strong machine gun ≤ grade 4
  • Shield ≤ grade 2
  • Armor ≤ grade 2
  • Vehicle reinforcements can be called in twice (missions 03 & 35 only)
• 5
  • Special combat preparedness
  • Armor ≤ grade 4
  • Shield ≤ grade 4
  • Vehicle reinforcements can be called in three times (missions 03 & 35 only)
    • Chance of black (high stat) vehicles[4][3]

Triggers (N/A during free roam):

• Player eliminated an enemy during a combat phase (+5 RP)
• Combat phase meaning any phase higher than suspicion, such as when being shot at.
• Player captured a guard post or outpost during a combat phase (+15 RP)[5]
• Player completed a mission with more combat phase elimination points than for stealth phase.
  • Levels 0-3 (+5 RP)
  • Level 4 (+25 RP)
  • Level 5 (0 RP)

Decay on mission completion:

• Player completed a mission with more stealth phase elimination points than for combat alert
  • Levels 0 & 1 (-20 RP)
  • Level 2 (-25 RP)
  • Level 3 (-30 RP)
  • Level 4 (-75 RP)
  • Level 5 (-100 RP)
• Player completed a mission with equal combat alert and stealth phase elimination points
  • Levels 0-2 (0 RP)
  • Level 3 (-20 RP)
  • Level 4 (-50 RP)
  • Level 5 (-60 RP)[2]

Nighttime response

The subcategories of this response determine what nighttime equipment the AI will spawn with.

Gun lights
Guards will have weapon-mounted lights if the player continually eliminates them at night. This results in them severely limiting the player's vision and camo index during nighttime combat. They will also use their gun lights instead of their flashlight when investigating outside of a post's default low alert state. Regardless of this subcategory's level, they will always be able to use flashlights to check suspicious activity.

Category level interval: 0,1,1,1,1,1

• 0
  • Will not have gun lights
• 1
  • 75% have gun lights[3]

Trigger:

• Player eliminated a guard at night (+10 RP)[5]

Decay on mission completion:

• Level 0 (-10 RP)
• Level 1 (-50 RP)[2]

Night-vision goggles
Category level interval 0,1,1,2,3,3

• 0
  • Will not wear NVGs
• 1
  • 25% will wear NVGs
• 2
  • 50% will wear NVGs
• 3
  • 75% will wear NVGs[3]

Trigger:

• Player was discovered at night (+15 RP)[5]

Decay on mission completion:

• Level 0 (-10 RP)
• Levels 1-3 (-50 RP)[2]

Sniper response

Category level interval: 0,1,1,2,2,2

• 0
  • Guard type will not appear
• 1
  • Long-range guard type
    • Sniper rifle ≤ grade 2
• 2
  • Long-range guard type change
    • Strong sniper rifle ≤ grade 2[3]

Trigger:

• Enemy believes they are under sniper fire (+30)[5]
  • This isn't limited to sniper rifles, and generally occurs when the player shoots one bullet from mid to long-range.

Decay on mission completion:

• Level 0 (-10 RP)
• Levels 1 & 2 (-50 RP)[2]

Hidden revenge categories
Vehicle response
Category level interval: 0,1,1,2,3,3

• 0
  • Will not carry missiles
• 1
  • Missiles ≤ grade 2
• 2
  • Strong missiles ≤ grade 2
• 3
  • Strong missiles ≤ grade 4[3]

Triggers:

• Enemy was killed by the player's helicopter (+10 RP)
  • Likely includes player manning the minigun
• Player killed a soldier with a vehicle (+10 RP)
  • By impacting or shooting with ground vehicles or D-Walker[5][6]

Decay on mission completion:

• Level 0 (-10 RP)
• Levels 1-3 (-50 RP)[2]

Tranquilizer response
The difference between strong and default tranquilizer notice is not clearly defined within the game or its files, however it appears to be the factor in whether a soldier calls for an alert when discovering a tranquilized comrade. When at level zero a lone soldier discovering a single "ZZZ" guard tends to remark about the sleeping guard's laziness and will wake them without informing CP. Whereas in the same scenario at level one, an alert is usually called. Exceptions to this may be when a soldier sees multiple neutralized guards or witnesses a guard passing out.

Category level interval: 0,1,1,1,1,1

• 0
  • Default tranquilizer notice
• 1
  • Strong tranquilizer notice[3]

Trigger:

• Enemy woke a comrade whom the player had tranquilized (+5 RP)[5]

Decay on mission completion:

• Level 0 (-10 RP)
• Level 1 (-20 RP)[2]

Smoke/gas response
Category level interval: 0,1,1,2,3,3

• 0
  • Will not wear gas masks
• 1
  • 25% will wear gas masks
• 2
  • 50% will wear gas masks
• 3
  • 75% will wear gas masks[3]

Triggers:

• Enemy witnessed smoke occurring (+15 RP)
• Player affected an enemy with smoke/gas (+15 RP)[5]
  • Includes smoke, gas and flares of player origin.[7]

Decay on mission completion:

• Level 0 (-10 RP)
• Levels 1-3 (-50 RP)

Source

 

[unfairlight]

Hm. They never really did much to me other than just wearing helmets and NVG. I believe I also saw like 2 super heavy armour guys, but that was basically it.

 

[sullynathan]

At close range you might as well stab them in the dark, idiot. What's even the point in shooting them then?

Two people. Three people. It can be to your advantage to shoot people

 

[Master]

Well yes. As stabbing takes some time to play out. For example Chad mentioned throwing flash grenades, so if you have three or four bad guys blinded its a question whether you could slice them all up. This is where your trusty Five-seveN comes in... Still, it takes some skill to do it.

 

[Perkel]

I could kill for proper co-op in MGS5

 

[Machocruz]

Well yes. As stabbing takes some time to play out. For example Chad mentioned throwing flash grenades, so if you have three or four bad guys blinded its a question whether you could slice them all up. This is where your trusty Five-seveN comes in... Still, it takes some skill to do it.

You can elbow them all after you flash them, which is an instant ko. This is how I always took out one particular room in chaos theory that had 3 guys in it. I never used guns other than shooting out lights, or the non-lethal rounds in the FN2000, and the scripted combat encounters.

Btw on consoles, shooting was less accurate, especially with the pistol. I was missing shots even with the reticle closed all the way. I assumed this was by design, being under the Tom Clancy umbrella i.e. some simulation elements were involved, which also explains why the pistol was less accurate at ranged. But when I later played on PC, I'm hitting everything, so I don't know.

 

[Master]

Sure but if they are spaced out across the room then its tougher. I found its just safer and faster with the gun, though you have to practice it a bit.

 

[unfairlight]

In most situations you can just lure them away and pick them off one by one, or avoid them completely. It's basically crippling yourself in some ways to use guns in SC games since you often have plenty of non-lethal options, but I guess it's easy for me since I know the games inside out.

 

[Master]

Well thats the whole point. Combat should be less effective than stealth.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

MGSV is a mechanically excellent game, that is unable to reach it's full potential for the lack of content and level design of equal quality, plus dumb values (high player health + health regeneration and ultimately low enemy perception - sight and hearing fields) that removed most of the challenge the game could've had.
The open world could've also worked very well if again the game had good missions, level design and also good side quests and memorable world encounters/events - the side quests should've been few, not busy work shit, all accessible from the moment the map becomes available, and finally the player should've had few information on them.
One of the main reasons the game failed, was because during it's development it fell was the victim of the Konami/Kojima feud.

As for the MGS series as a whole. They were never stealth games, but action games with a greater emphasis on stealth gameplay

 

[DJOGamer PT]

So Chad you were talking about SE4. Is it a good gaem?

 

[Multidirectional]

On easy they weren't too deadly but on hard and expert they basically always 2shotted you.

Who plays a stealth game on "easy"? Hey guys I wanna play this sneaking game but I don't really want to have to sneak.

 

[unfairlight]

So Chad you were talking about SE4. Is it a good gaem?

It is. Some neat level design, pretty graphics, lots of weapons that mostly all feel unique, wide open maps, plenty of ways to complete your objectives. I think it's probably the best Sniper Elite yet. They made the stealth way better than in previous ones, AI detection actually makes some sense and it's balanced pretty well.

Who plays a stealth game on "easy"? Hey guys I wanna play this sneaking game but I don't really want to have to sneak.

Easy difficulty in SC:CT did not actually make them less aware, IIRC, it just lowered their damage. So sneaking was just as hard, it was the combat that was easier. Not that much easier though, you were 3 times more survivable but that's still 10 rounds tops and you don't have healing lying around everywhere. I've only played the first few missions on that difficulty when I wanted to go for a more assault oriented playthrough but I dropped it halfway. It gets a bit more entertaining when you get your hands on the shotgun attachment on the F2000 which is pretty much a onehit machine.

 

[Multidirectional]

That shit might make sense in hybrid type games but in a full stealth game I am always ramping up difficulty to feel fragile and scared.