Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

mindx2

Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter
Patron
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
4,430
Location
Perusing his PC Museum shelves.
Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
At PAX East I spoke with one of the owners of an indie turn-based strategy game set during WWI called Making History: The Great War. He told me that one of the lead designers (a friend) of Civ IV & V left after Civ V was released to KS his own strategy game set right after the fall of the Roman Empire. We briefly discussed the failings of Civ V and that was one of the major reasons the designer left. There was so much pressure to "broaden the appeal" and design for focus groups he wanted a fresh start and make his game for the niche market. I wish I could remember the name of the game being developed but was told he got way more KS money than asked for. The setting sounded great with all the barbarian tribes picking apart the remnants of Rome.
 

Tytus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
3,596
Location
Mazovia


That was truly beautiful.


even in space there's no escaping the huehuehue.


Even Egypt and Huehuehue going into Space, but not even a hint of Poland. Looks like Firaxis really believes Poland cannot into Space.

Also, meh.




Poland is a part of ESA so they go into space with Germans and the French. Probably to unclog their toilets.






Even if they had the rights it would be a horrible idea to make a SMAC2. You could make the best turn-based game in the past ten years and it still wouldn't live up to the hype. Aged legends like that are best kept at a distance.

Edit: the PCGamer article used to be one page, now it's been separated into five :roll:


PC Gamer: So you're always the first one to land on the planet you're colonising, and then other ones land afterward? How will that unfold?

David McDonough: Yeah, you're playing, you're exploring and then you'll get a popup, a communique, and you'll zoom over to see the ship for your opponent land, they'll establish their capital, you'll get first diplomatic contact with them, and you're free to go from there. It'll happen at some point between the first 40 - 50 turns.

Not sure how that's going to work. Sounds like a terrible idea on paper.

It's different than normal, kind of an emergent style like some Civ4 mods that have new civs appear as the game progresses. They'll probably scale with your tech, of course. In the end, I doubt it'll make any real difference.

One of the designers also said CivRevolution was his favorite Civ game so really all-in-all I wish I hadn't read that interview. Still excited because it's Civ, but I gotta get away from the hype machine.

Oh dear. This is deeply troubling. I thought the world forgot that CivRevolution existed?



CivRevolution never existed!













But seriously, I'm looking forward to this. Civ 5 wasn't a great game but I really enjoyed it, especially when the expansions came and fixed many annoying issues. My family members enjoyed even more.

Though I have one question will the popamola XCOM units be in this one? The last expansion had XCOM units for one reason or another, that were so fitting like a cow in a clown car. Here they would a lot more sense. I will call it now.

Beyond Earth XCOM unit pack DLC!
 

BlackAdderBG

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
3,081
Location
Little Vienna
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
At PAX East I spoke with one of the owners of an indie turn-based strategy game set during WWI called Making History: The Great War. He told me that one of the lead designers (a friend) of Civ IV & V left after Civ V was released to KS his own strategy game set right after the fall of the Roman Empire. We briefly discussed the failings of Civ V and that was one of the major reasons the designer left. There was so much pressure to "broaden the appeal" and design for focus groups he wanted a fresh start and make his game for the niche market. I wish I could remember the name of the game being developed but was told he got way more KS money than asked for. The setting sounded great with all the barbarian tribes picking apart the remnants of Rome.

Yeah that's the moron responsible for CIV espionage and lead on V Jon Shafer

Also he started to redeem himself by shitting over the game after he left,but still too late.
 

mindx2

Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter
Patron
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
4,430
Location
Perusing his PC Museum shelves.
Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
At PAX East I spoke with one of the owners of an indie turn-based strategy game set during WWI called Making History: The Great War. He told me that one of the lead designers (a friend) of Civ IV & V left after Civ V was released to KS his own strategy game set right after the fall of the Roman Empire. We briefly discussed the failings of Civ V and that was one of the major reasons the designer left. There was so much pressure to "broaden the appeal" and design for focus groups he wanted a fresh start and make his game for the niche market. I wish I could remember the name of the game being developed but was told he got way more KS money than asked for. The setting sounded great with all the barbarian tribes picking apart the remnants of Rome.

Yeah that's the moron responsible for CIV espionage and lead on V Jon Shafer
What's the name of the KS strat he's making?
 

mindx2

Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter
Patron
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
4,430
Location
Perusing his PC Museum shelves.
Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Are this the same guys that made "Making History:The calm and the storm" you talked with ? Hope the new game is not buggy mess II was.
Was that a WWII game? If so then yes it's the same guys. The demo I saw running seemed smooth as silk. They plan on releasing it on the anniversary of the start of WWI July 28th. They had most of the major powers implemented except for France.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
704
Wasteland 2
CivRevolution Civ 5 never existed!

Fixed. I don't care about civ rev, but civ 5 still makes me seriously butthurt. In fact Firaxis doesn't exist anymore for me.

Also, that tiles and units art style :lol: At this point Pandora: First Contact looks less bland than this and probably plays better too ( given Civ:BE will be based on Civ5 ).
 
Last edited:

Random Word

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
320
MCA Project: Eternity
I didn't acknowledge Civ V's existence until BNW. I hated doom stacks and enjoy tactical combat on hex grids where positioning matters, but vanilla looked awful. BNW is great fun in multiplayer, and I'm curious to see if BE will be vanilla V all over again or build on BNW's quality.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,629
What puts Alpha Centauri so far above Civ for me is the huge sway in play style between the factions and the ramifications that the social engineering settings bring.

From the sounds of it, there will be three types of factions. Without some sub-choices, we just won't see the diversity of style that there was between say the Morganites, Gaians, and Spartans.
 

Eyeball

Arcane
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
2,541
What the game SHOULD have: smaller but MULTIPLE planets like EOTFS did. Industrialise your home planet! Fight space battles! Invade other planets on the ground like regular Civ with units ferried from other planets!

Failing that, this is a reskin.
 

Kane

I have many names
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
22,279
Location
Drug addicted, mentally ill gays HQ
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
At PAX East I spoke with one of the owners of an indie turn-based strategy game set during WWI called Making History: The Great War. He told me that one of the lead designers (a friend) of Civ IV & V left after Civ V was released to KS his own strategy game set right after the fall of the Roman Empire. We briefly discussed the failings of Civ V and that was one of the major reasons the designer left. There was so much pressure to "broaden the appeal" and design for focus groups he wanted a fresh start and make his game for the niche market. I wish I could remember the name of the game being developed but was told he got way more KS money than asked for. The setting sounded great with all the barbarian tribes picking apart the remnants of Rome.

Is his name John Schafer and is the game's title John Schafer's At The Gates?
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
704
Wasteland 2
I hated doom stacks and enjoy tactical combat on hex grids where positioning matters, but vanilla looked awful.

If I wanted a pseudo strategy game, with some casual tactics combat, I would be playing Heroes of Might and Magic not a Civ game.
This retarded, exploitable tactical combat on overworld map, just ruins strategic layer, that should be the meat of the game.
You have represented your elite 300 Spartans holding off an army in a battle in unit experince and lucky roll in previous civs.
In Civ 5 your 300 Spartans can completely block some mountains chokepoint for eternity, or a single pack of few units can ride all over the world for centuries and win the whole game.

The core systems in Civ4 were really good, they've just ruined it with too much tacked on stuff, that made it a chore to play. They've should improve it, instead of reinventing it for casuals.

There is nothing wrong with stacks of doom, even stuff like D-Day, or Operation Barbarossa are just confrontations of two stacks of doom in a game of Civ scale.
They've should instead just increase units maintance costs, basically all units ( except ships and modern artillery, tanks etc) should cost food, while mechanised and firearms units should cost additional production points to maintance.
It would significantly limit an amount of units on map in plausible manner without artificial 1UPT rule, additionaly combat resolution rules should be designed with resolving whole stacks at once in mind, plus nice UI for splitting and moving stacks.

Units upgrades are cool in theory, but another chore not worth the player effort to micro in practice. They've should be used as upgrades in some unit designer SMAC style.
Some could be additionally granted automatically, like mountaineering for being build or winning a battle in mountains, etc. Player shouldn't have to bother with them on individual per unit basis outside of production queue.

Espionage was retarded, it should be some kind of short time investment, like only espionage points from last 20 turns count and that should be paid from treasury individually per operation.
Giving it another slider in culture/science/tax, while still separate for each enemy, was another atrocious micro chore and felt implausible, they've made a weird mix of science and culture out of it. I would also get rid of great people.

Instead of fixing/cutting what was broken they've just decaided to reinvent the wheel and ruin everyting. Fuck these loosers assholes and their casual games.

I didn't acknowledge Civ V's existence until BNW. I hated doom stacks and enjoy tactical combat on hex grids where positioning matters, but vanilla looked awful. BNW is great fun in multiplayer, and I'm curious to see if BE will be vanilla V all over again or build on BNW's quality.

I don't believe that BNW changes anything, because the core concept of almost everything in Civ5 is shit ( shittyness of 1UPT is explained above, but there is a lot more ).
You've just felt guilty for wanting play it and was seeking an excuse to justify it - BNW totally fixes the gaem, it's awsome now, fuck the haters lololllol ! People claimed the same abot BTS for Civ4...
In reality it was good mostly for improved AI, while exactly the same game at its core and most of the additions like espionage and corporations were actually tacked on, unnecessary crap.

You have not only shit taste in 4x games, but are also a tool, that started to enjoy it only after it stopped to be cool fad to shit on this game, because disappointed people moved on and apologist have taken over.
 
Last edited:

mindx2

Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter
Patron
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
4,430
Location
Perusing his PC Museum shelves.
Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
At PAX East I spoke with one of the owners of an indie turn-based strategy game set during WWI called Making History: The Great War. He told me that one of the lead designers (a friend) of Civ IV & V left after Civ V was released to KS his own strategy game set right after the fall of the Roman Empire. We briefly discussed the failings of Civ V and that was one of the major reasons the designer left. There was so much pressure to "broaden the appeal" and design for focus groups he wanted a fresh start and make his game for the niche market. I wish I could remember the name of the game being developed but was told he got way more KS money than asked for. The setting sounded great with all the barbarian tribes picking apart the remnants of Rome.

Is his name John Schafer and is the game's title John Schafer's At The Gates?
Yeah, that's the one.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,629
Oh yeah, and it is retarded that there was an event important enough that everyone calls it "The Big Mistake" and yet nobody wrote down what it was so that it could be prevented from happening again.
 

Random Word

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
320
MCA Project: Eternity
There is nothing wrong with stacks of doom, even stuff like D-Day, or Operation Barbarossa are just confrontations of two stacks of doom in a game of Civ scale.
They've should instead just increase units maintance costs, basically all units ( except ships and modern artillery, tanks etc) should cost food, while mechanised and firearms units should cost additional production points to maintance.
It would significantly limit an amount of units on map in plausible manner without artificial 1UPT rule, additionaly combat resolution rules should be designed with resolving whole stacks at once in mind, plus nice UI for splitting and moving stacks.

What, did you lose to someone who employed terrain and flanking better than you and now you've come to the Codex to cry about it? All I'm hearing is, "1UPT is too complicated for me! Let me smash my stack of units into the enemy and win because mine is bigger!" Doomstacks may be wonderful, if boring, for D-Day, but if you think Operation Barbarossa was a doom stack you really need to crack open a history book, or perhaps an atlas. If you're suggesting War in the East would have been improved by having the Red Army and the Wehrmacht form a doomstack with whoever manages production and logistics better declared the winner, you should probably have picked up a city building game instead of a 4X.

If you actually let another player hold a mountain pass and smashed your face against it until you lost your army instead of finding another way around or properly employing ranged units and artillery to force them to withdraw, you're really awful at casual tactics combat.

I don't believe that BNW changes anything, because the core concept of almost everything in Civ5 is shit ( shittyness of 1UPT is explained above, but there is a lot more ).
You've just felt guilty for wanting play it and was seeking an excuse to justify it - BNW totally fixes the gaem, it's awsome now, fuck the haters lololllol ! People claimed the same abot BTS for Civ4...
In reality it was good mostly for improved AI, while exactly the same game at its core and most of the additions like espionage and corporations were actually tacked on, unnecessary crap.

You have not only shit taste in 4x games, but are also a tool, that started to enjoy it only after it stopped to be cool fad to shit on this game, because disappointed people moved on and apologist have taken over.

If I was 'guilty' about being unable to play Civ V, you're clearly just boiling over with impotent rage at your inability to handle anything more cognitively taxing than 'make stack -> smash stack -> win/lose -> repeat'. All you've done is whine about how there are gameplay mechanics for elements of the game you didn't want to have to actually play. I recommend just setting the game to the lowest difficulty setting and never using more than one combat unit in an army. You'll feel right at home without having all the horrendously arduous micro of moving more than one unit and can just click the end turn button while you watch your wonders progress, or whatever it is you do.

If you get eight humans together to play BNW and BTS, and can honestly tell me with a straight face that you had more fun fighting wars in Civ IV, you should steer clear of any real 4X games like Aurora. You'd have an apoplectic fit at all that game you had to play. I'll take casual tactics combat over no tactics combat any day. From what I understand you'd remove espionage, combat, specialists, corporations, and probably religion from the game, leaving build order for your cities and research order. In that case I'm sure there are some browser based strategy games or a nice mobile title that can meet your needs nicely.

I'd address some of your other criticisms of BNW, if you'd actually raised any.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
704
Wasteland 2
Note to myself, to stop trying too hard to be edgy and isulting even if it's tempting on the codex ;) My English is too limited to make it playful and funny, it turned out childish...
No worries though, you've matched quality of my post in that regard, with twisting my points into something opposite to what was written.

Back on topic, the arguments in my post flew over your head just like the point of 4x genre. It's about build up efficiency and risk management, war confrontation is just a climax and doesn't even have to happen.
Civ 5 is all about streamlinig buildup and making it invalid beyond some point and letting players going all "tactical" with their few cities and dozen units.

Yes, I would prefer more depth in the core aspects of the game, instead of a bunch of shallow, tacked on subsystems.
Want to add depth to war in a *strategy* game ? Add supply lines, transport units, combined arms bonuses, etc. not 1UPT that prevent civ, that managed to significantly outproduce competition, from properly utilising gained strategic advantage.
There is Paradox stuff left, but it lacks certain gamist purity and clarity I enjoy in Civ and it's clones. I would love some middle ground between the two, unfortunately Civ series is on the opposite course now.

I'm just butthurt because Civ was the game that get me into gaming and I had certain expectations regarding evolution of this series that were never met, where civ4 was abandoned now move into desired direction.
Anyway, current Firaxis output is of no interest to me and there is no point in wasting energy discussing it, I'm out.
 
Last edited:

Renegen

Arcane
Joined
Jun 5, 2011
Messages
4,062
The removal of doom stacks was exactly what Civ needed. After hundred of hours executing the exact same strategies, it's nice to have a different combat system. It's just that the AI has to manage it well too or else it's just too easy. I haven't played the latest expansions of Civ 5, but compared to the competition it's an awesome game.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I don't understand why doom stacks are seen as so bad. To me, Civ was all about heavy abstraction and making big decisions, not tactical concerns.

They should have expanded on the army idea from Civ3 and made it even less player-driven.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Some kind of supply limit could work for Civ. You can only have x units within a certain distance of each other or they start to take attrition.

Some kind of mechanic to make it beneficial to attack multiple cities at once instead of just mass attacking a single location would be good too. That would naturally get people to split into multiple doomstacks.
 

BlackAdderBG

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
3,081
Location
Little Vienna
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Some kind of supply limit could work for Civ. You can only have x units within a certain distance of each other or they start to take attrition.

There is mechanic that limit SoD it's the maintenance.(also mods ,something CiV doesn't have)

Some kind of mechanic to make it beneficial to attack multiple cities at once instead of just mass attacking a single location would be good too.

Why would you want that?Even in modern wars armies stack and overwhelm the enemy to capture one strategic town/base/port.There is very little reason for nations to split armies throughout history that I can't see why you would want to get that tactical level of managing from game about building civilizations.

So the reasoning goes that way-you build your cities,grow your civ ,get research going and then BAM no big armies says the retards.Where is the fun of building big powerhouse empires if you can't make big armies?
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Why would you want that?Even in modern wars armies stack and overwhelm the enemy to capture one strategic town/base/port.There is very little reason for nations to split armies throughout history that I can't see why you would want to get that tactical level of managing from game about building civilizations.

So the reasoning goes that way-you build your cities,grow your civ ,get research going and then BAM no big armies says the retards.Where is the fun of building big powerhouse empires if you can't make big armies?
When fighting Germany, the allies were very keen to have muitiple fronts.

When France and England were fighting the 7 years war it was across like a million theaters.

You want to spread your opponent out, find the weak point and strike. Even on the strategic level. Get France to fight in Africa, Europe and Asia, then have the colonists in America take advantage.

Civ does a poor job with different theaters because civs are generally blobs and not as spread out as they were in real life (some kind of solid protectorate and colony system would fix this), and it does a terrible job with making multiple fronts useful or interesting, especially once you get railroads and can fly around your own country at will.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom