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Baldur's Gate The Ethics of Baldur's Gate 2 Romances

Lord_Potato

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
10,036
Location
Free City of Warsaw
If something is truelly unethical about Baldur's Gate, it's the novel by Philip Athans.

It's more than a simple atrocity. It's a crime against literature itself.

There should be a Nuremberg Tribunal for authors committing such heinous acts.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
If something is truelly unethical about Baldur's Gate, it's the novel by Philip Athans.

It's more than a simple atrocity. It's a crime against literature itself.

There should be a Nuremberg Tribunal for authors committing such heinous acts.

I was crazy about the BGs when they released. That prompted me to buy this novel. I didn't quite suspect how bad it could be. Well, I didn't even get halfway through. Way worse than the shittiest MTG novels like Zendikar. The things that happened didn't make sense, it was shoddily written, and it didn't bear any actual connection to the game.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
So many insecure teen edgelords on this thread.

There are multiple types of NPC banters in BG2, romances are just one facet complementing a larger whole. Banters in BG2 as a whole are among the best of any CRPG ever.

I agree about BG2 appreciation, but not about calling other people edgelords, what about we call you an autist?

Gobblecock: I'm aware about one side of the relationship taking charge, here we call it "wearing the pants" and I think it's something like that in English. It's OK to be the strong part of the relationship, but with a weak, submissive girl, how far can you get? In no time she'll stop working and be depending 100% on you for everything. And I hate that. My girl has to bring something to the relationship. If not, GTFO.

Long story short, you can be dominant in your relationship and still not have a whiny girl like Aerie by your side. Is my point. Get someone with some more self esteem instead. Whiny people are awful.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
I don't know why everyone is so butthurt about Khalid. How long is someone supposed to 'grieve' before they are allowed to have feelings for someone else? It's not as if Jaheira jumps on you immediately, and she shows genuine grief for Khalid.

It's almost as if you some of you have never even been with a woman before, but that can't be true...

It's almost like you have no shred of social mores at all but that can't be true.

To prove it: you can go asking people around you this question
"how long(days, weeks, months) should a widow stay celibate after her husband breath his final?" Try to get specific period of time
Ask your parents to have an idea of older generation.
Ask your friends to have an idea of your generation. Bonus point if you have some married friend (ie you are matured to a certain point).
That should teach you something about your social mores
the real answer is a function of the PC's charisma

lets not forget that khalid was below 6 feet
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,021
Pathfinder: Wrath
It's not about social mores, it's about how you personally experience loss and heartbreak. My grandfather died 5 months ago and I doubt my grandmother will get over it ever. Even though I'm not exactly emotional in general, I needed half a year to get over my last heartbreak/break-up. I didn't want to even think about relationships and sex, let alone participate in such. And Khalid was her husband, not some random dude she fell in love with. If she can get over that in like 3 months, then that speaks volumes about either their relationship or her love for him. This could've been explored more in the romance, such questions could've been asked. Why is she ready to fall in love so soon? Didn't she love Khalid? How strong was her love actually? Was Khalid not a good man and husband? Maybe she could blame herself for that. Or not, maybe she doesn't care.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
It's not about social mores, it's about how you personally experience loss and heartbreak. My grandfather died 5 months ago and I doubt my grandmother will get over it ever. Even though I'm not exactly emotional in general, I needed half a year to get over my last heartbreak/break-up. I didn't want to even think about relationships and sex, let alone participate in such. And Khalid was her husband, not some random dude she fell in love with. If she can get over that in like 3 months, then that speaks volumes about either their relationship or her love for him. This could've been explored more in the romance, such questions could've been asked. Why is she ready to fall in love so soon? Didn't she love Khalid? How strong was her love actually? Was Khalid not a good man and husband? Maybe she could blame herself for that. Or not, maybe she doesn't care.

I believe closely replicating a real life situation is out of the scope of this romance. The questions you present are also out of scope.

Yeah, it would have been better if those questions were tackled, but that's too much to ask from this game's writing. In modern games... maybe.

Besides, she should be close to Gorion's Ward as she spent easily a year or several fighting Sarevok. Even if she loved Khalid, she can fall in love with the new man.

And finally. Romances don't have to be deep. These were Bioware's first go at romances of any class. Therefore they are lacking in some aspects. You can argue that romances haven't improved since then, but it's not a romantic novel, it's an RPG with this fanfiction-level, fanservice content. It's there just to get more involved with the characters. Old trick. Probably Bioware were criticised about how few the characters talked in BG1 and decided to address that.
 

Shaewaroz

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
2,923
Location
In a hobo shack due to betting on neanderthal
I'm very into cock and ball torture
So many insecure teen edgelords on this thread.

There are multiple types of NPC banters in BG2, romances are just one facet complementing a larger whole. Banters in BG2 as a whole are among the best of any CRPG ever.

I agree about BG2 appreciation, but not about calling other people edgelords, what about we call you an autist?

Ranting about BG2 romances has become the pinnacle of Codexian immaturity. It's a sure way to spot an insecure edgelord. "BG2 romances are so lame, Aerie is a whiny brat, Jaheira is a nympho milf, Viconia is kinda OK tho since she's into latex and stuff". Blah blah blah. For fuck's sake, all NPCs in BG2 have 10 times more personality than the best NPCs in your average Bethesda or Troika RPG. "PS:T is all dark and creepy and everyone's dead n shit, so it's cool bro." Gimme a break.
 

Sergiu64

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Messages
2,637
Location
Sic semper tyrannis.
The party is constantly risking all their lives while fighting alongside the progeny of the God of Murder. These are not people that act rationally - trying to extrapolate as to how realistic their romantic conversations/actions could be is a lost cause. They're just too far removed from normal people for us to expect them to act like normal people.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,021
Pathfinder: Wrath
Tbh, I just suspect the writers didn't think through the romance very well. Was Jaheira a popular character before BG2 came out? That might explain why they wanted her to be a romance option. I haven't used her since my first ever BG1 run. It would've been better perhaps to have another woman from the roster be a romance option instead if they weren't willing to explore how this relationship in particular is going to work out. Adopted aunt + she just lost her husband is a lot of baggage to go through.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
Ok, you bunch of nerds. I guess its time for me to forcefully improve this thread.

Some of [the imoincest fanbase] were really just normal people who liked the expansion of her and <CHARNAME>'s story and childhood, and weren't playing for the incest factor. A lot of people really weren't playing for the incest factor, but yes, we had people who were way too into incest, or rape, or hentai, or whatever.

We had a lot of foreign people on there, and unfortunately there was a LOT of inter-team dating. Yes, I did date people from there, yes, I actually married one of them, but I will say that painkillers plus college led to a terrible decision. He's a cool dude and all, just not ready to be in a relationship like that.

Among the crazy, we had one guy who was a black dude from Poland who accused everybody of racism when we told him that his pages-long rant about the EU gaming people banning use of child models in games was insane and creepy. He was pissed that they weren't in there to kill because "
emot-qq.gif
MY IMMERSION", and that's it. He was also really really into drawing Chaos Marines before I knew what they were.

One dude who tried to get with me constantly introduced me to [cheap alcohol site] as he is apparently a connoisseur of s***ty alcohol. He was a pathological liar as well, lived in his parents' basement, and stalked a lot of girls from the place by doing internet detective work and digging up phone numbers. When his oh-so debonair self just couldn't seem to get interest out of me, he made up a girlfriend so I would get jealous. Her name was Lexi, she was British, addicted to heroin, and stripping her way through law school. He literally thought I would buy that, but it didn't take much prodding for him to admit that he made her up. After everyone found out, he tried to make "Lexi" look real to THEM by making her a forums account and having her post a couple of times, still maintaining that they were boyfriend/girlfriend.
I think the cherry on the sundae is that the dude easily had 10-15 years on most of the girls.

There was the spergin' dude who I got to be friends with IRL and it turned out that he wrote
emot-nws.gif
emot-nms.gif
the worst thing
emot-nms.gif
emot-nws.gif
[link removed - it's a shock site]. I believe he lost custody of his daughter in his divorce because of that whole ASSTR page.

As far as the ladies went, it was a toss-up. We had some cool chicks in there who were just fans of the character... and we had chicks with 0 redeeming qualities fantasizing about getting raped by Sarevok and s***. Sh**ting up IRC with links to "hawt yaoi fics", s***ting up the legit play-by-post D&D game I tried to run on there with their supar-sexii kawaii bishounen yaoi with purple hair and a 12inch d****, or s****ting up both there AND the normal forums by constantly talking in detail about sex they would never have.

So, while we had normal people, we also had a bunch of That Guys. It got VERY VERY creepy, because there seriously ended up being this weird idolization of myself and any other VAs who were trying on the series. It got REALLY bad for me, since I had a fancy account with bells and whistles that was all about me being ~*~Imoen's Voice In The Mod~*~ with special titles and avatars and shit, and there was literally a fan-club that popped up around me, and then some other dude who was "opposed" to my fan-club and so HE had one and there were elaborate and frightening signature banners like FYAD and it was all very terrible.

There was a mass exodus after we had literal proof that the mod s*** was all Mirabbo's [mod writer] wank dream. His wife showed up to bawl me and some of the other female VAs out because of the "conversations" she had been seeing between us and him. She said it was the exact kind of roleplay sex fantasy s*** he was trying to get her to do, and she said no, so she thought he was cheating on her with us because we were from the internet and would do just about anything for a fetish.

Those conversations were the f****ing script he wrote for the mod. We ran.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,250
Location
Ingrija
It's not about social mores, it's about how you personally experience loss and heartbreak. My grandfather died 5 months ago and I doubt my grandmother will get over it ever. Even though I'm not exactly emotional in general, I needed half a year to get over my last heartbreak/break-up. I didn't want to even think about relationships and sex, let alone participate in such. And Khalid was her husband, not some random dude she fell in love with. If she can get over that in like 3 months, then that speaks volumes about either their relationship or her love for him. This could've been explored more in the romance, such questions could've been asked. Why is she ready to fall in love so soon? Didn't she love Khalid? How strong was her love actually? Was Khalid not a good man and husband? Maybe she could blame herself for that. Or not, maybe she doesn't care.

Charm person does that to people. And I guess the cock of a godspawn with all 18s in stats can cause unhealthy attraction.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
said mods contents

First - Imoen gets attacked by a goblin when a kid, PC saves her and promises to marry her to keep her safe. They're just kids so they giggle, dream Imoen asks if he will marry her after all
Dream 2 - PC and Imoen go swimming near Candlekeep, except they swim naked. PC describes her naked body and it's effect on him in far too much detail, gets a kiss from Imoen and wakes up with an erection (No I'm not making this up it's so bad) and realises he wants her
Dream 3 - PC and Imoen are climbing some mountains near Candlekeep, and camp out udner the stars. Imoen has a bad dream about the Bhaalspawn within her and starts crying, PC comforts her and smells her hair. That's the last one, although I seem to think I'm missing one more
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,066
It's not about social mores, it's about how you personally experience loss and heartbreak. My grandfather died 5 months ago and I doubt my grandmother will get over it ever. Even though I'm not exactly emotional in general, I needed half a year to get over my last heartbreak/break-up. I didn't want to even think about relationships and sex, let alone participate in such. And Khalid was her husband, not some random dude she fell in love with. If she can get over that in like 3 months, then that speaks volumes about either their relationship or her love for him. This could've been explored more in the romance, such questions could've been asked. Why is she ready to fall in love so soon? Didn't she love Khalid? How strong was her love actually? Was Khalid not a good man and husband? Maybe she could blame herself for that. Or not, maybe she doesn't care.
You only say that because you didn't get the right opportunity for sex during your sad period. Imagine that you had pamela anderson in her prime as a real option during that time, you would be a fucking rabbit instead.
And that is the bhaalspawn to Jaheira. People forget in first dungeon before romance starts you get that 18 charisma ring. That plus god's blood should be enough.
 

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