Baldur's Gate The Ethics of Baldur's Gate 2 Romances

[Delterius]

HOWEVER, also provide a screen shot or a video clip showcasing a CRPG that has better romantic banters

I think Safiya was pretty good.

OK and can you provide an example why BG 2 romance are terrible?

TBH they kind of went out of their way to pick the ~worst characters~ sans Viconia. Its no wonder there's 10 terabytes of romance mods out there.

 

[Sharpedge]

I wish to issue a DIRECT CHALLENGE to all of you who think BG2 romances are lame, grinchworthy, poorly-written or illogical.

Post a screen shot or a video clip that illustrates why BG2 romances are terrible. HOWEVER, also provide a screen shot or a video clip showcasing a CRPG that has better romantic banters. I will promise to familiarize myself with the romances of the game your mentioned and we can analyze them together with all the collective knowledge of literary theory and storytelling which I'm sure all of us have in abundance. I'm willing to be proven wrong if it turns out I'm blinded by nostalgia.

Great opportunity here to subject someone to some painfully bad writing.

 

[Shaewaroz]

HOWEVER, also provide a screen shot or a video clip showcasing a CRPG that has better romantic banters

I think Safiya was pretty good.

OK and can you provide an example why BG 2 romance are terrible?

TBH they kind of went out of their way to pick the ~worst characters~ sans Viconia. Its no wonder there's 10 terabytes of romance mods out there.

I rather see it as people loving BG2 romances and banters so much that they were inspired to create something similar. But feel free to provide an example of bad writing if you can think of one. I hate people implying stuff without clear examples.

 

[Chippy]

HOWEVER, also provide a screen shot or a video clip showcasing a CRPG that has better romantic banters

I think Safiya was pretty good.

OK and can you provide an example why BG 2 romance are terrible?

Yes! The finale to the Viconia romance could only have been written by a fag. And one with a very un-fabulously optimistic view of the world I might add!.

 

[Shaewaroz]

Great opportunity here to subject someone to some painfully bad writing.

Why don't you do so then?

 

[Delterius]

HOWEVER, also provide a screen shot or a video clip showcasing a CRPG that has better romantic banters

I think Safiya was pretty good.

OK and can you provide an example why BG 2 romance are terrible?

TBH they kind of went out of their way to pick the ~worst characters~ sans Viconia. Its no wonder there's 10 terabytes of romance mods out there.

I rather see it as people loving BG2 romances and banters so much that they were inspired to create something similar. But feel free to provide an example of bad writing if you can think of one. I hate people implying stuff without clear examples.

Hmmm, well yes and no, right? The BG2 romances were inspired by the romance mods/fanfiction for BG1 you could find in the old Bio forums. And in part we can credit the breadth of content due to the ease of producing it (there's less VO to record) and how prolific it was. But I can tell you for certainty that the female audience HATED anomen with a passion. Hence all the anime-esque brooding bad boys you can find here and there.

 

[Shaewaroz]

Yes! The finale to the Viconia romance could only have been written by a fag. And one with a very un-fabulously optimistic view of the world I might add!.

You mean this?



I thought it was rather suitable ending for her.

 

[Lacrymas]

Shaewaroz, at the 6:46 banter, she is *already* talking of moving on and it's all heading towards the romance from there. She's basically saying "oh, yeah, that guy, well, I'm glad to have realized he shouldn't be a burden anymore". And there's that. Jaheira is the protagonist's kind of step-aunt because she was a friend of Gorion's, she talked about visiting them when the PC was a child.

 

[Shaewaroz]

Hmmm, well yes and no, right? The BG2 romances were inspired by the romance mods/fanfiction for BG1 you could find in the old Bio forums.

I think this is incorrect. They might have had a minor significance, but the main inspiration for BG2's robust banters and romances was the global success of FF7. I think there are multiple quotes of the Bioware doctors mentioning FF7 as a direct inspiration for BG2 character interactions.

But I can tell you for certainty that the female audience HATED anomen with a passion.

Because they were catering to their primary audience - sweaty hetero male teenager virgins like you and me.

 

[Shaewaroz]

Shaewaroz, at the 6:46 banter, she is *already* talking of moving on and it's all heading towards the romance from there. She's basically saying "oh, yeah, that guy, well, I'm glad to have realized he shouldn't be a burden anymore". And there's that. Jaheira is the protagonist's kind of step-aunt because she was a friend of Gorion's, she talked about visiting them when the PC was a child.

In 6:46 she is precisely remembering Khalid.

"<Charname>, do you worry about missing friends? About those missing or... lost?"
"I just needed to know that... the living and the dead are still in mind. They grow distant, but vengeance must still come."
"I'm becoming used to the aftermath of death, but I will not forget what must be avenged. There must be closure."

How do you interpret this as pissing on the grave of Khalid?

So I can't fuck a hot milf if she happened to visit my home when I was a kid? How disappointing. But at least we're not related by blood.

 

[Melcar]

Holy shit guys. Slow days at The Codex?
By the way, you guys are faggots. Jaheira was the best romance.

 

[Lacrymas]

How do you interpret this as pissing on the grave of Khalid?

So I can't fuck a hot milf if she happened to visit my home when I was a kid? How disappointing. But at least we're not related by blood.

Right after the "there must be closure" line, she says the dead will be glad their names aren't a burden, lol. And for the hot milf part, it isn't the protagonist who is the problem, it's her. Sure, it might speak a lot about the PC's character that he's willing to sexually prey on his grieving step-aunt, but the whole discussion here is why is she allowing this and why is she comfortable with that.

 

[Shadenuat]

Honestly the romances themselves in RPGs are not the real evil when compared to awful and incredibly vocal ~1% of gamers they attract to RPG boards.

 

[Neanderthal]

FUCKING ELVES!

Well what else would you do with them

Genocide, extermination, extinction, these are a few of my favourite things.

So your superiority complex towards those of us who are delusional ponces in every way that counts is completely understandable.

FTFY.

 

[Shaewaroz]

How do you interpret this as pissing on the grave of Khalid?

So I can't fuck a hot milf if she happened to visit my home when I was a kid? How disappointing. But at least we're not related by blood.

Right after the "there must be closure" line, she says the dead will be glad their names aren't a burden, lol. And for the hot milf part, it isn't the protagonist who is the problem, it's her. Sure, it might speak a lot about the PC's character that he's willing to sexually prey on his grieving step-aunt, but the whole discussion here is why is she allowing this and why is she comfortable with that.

- Dead not wanting to be a burden is perfectly sensible in the context of the game narrative. Jaheira constantly keeps saying Khalid would want her to keep on living her life to the fullest and we don't have any reason to doubt the sincerity of her words. Do you find it so outlandish that someone wouldn't want their loved one to live a life of sorrow and regret after they passed away? Especially someone like Jaheira, who is so strong-willed and full of passion?

- We already went through the fact that Jaheira mourned Khalid's passing presumably for months before getting nailed by the protagonist. 46 banters before the first sexual act. That's one hell of a foreplay.

- What is so outlandish about a woman wanting to have a relationship with a younger man? Even if she saw him when he was still just a child? I really don't get this. The protagonist is not a child any longer and Jaheira has had time to built trust, respect and compassion towards him throughout the entire story arc of BG 1 and BG 2. Perhaps when they first met in The Friendly Arm Inn, Jaheira thought of him more as Gorion's ward and not as a fully grown man, but she has had a lot of time to change her view based on everything the party has gone through together. Having a grieving widow as a romance option is a bold decision in a genre that's primarily built around saving virgins from dragon's lairs. The romance would have been even better if Khalid and Jaheira already had a child together and protagonist would have had to become a step daddy.

 

[Yosharian]

Jaheira's romance is ok. She's just a bit annoying.

 

[Shaewaroz]

Jaheira's romance is ok. She's just a bit annoying.

So what exactly is annoying about her?

 

[Yosharian]

Jaheira's romance is ok. She's just a bit annoying.

So what exactly is annoying about her?

She's stuck-up, and overly righteous.

I was able to complete the romance, and she's not too bad, but there were times when I wanted to drown her face first in a trough.

 

[laclongquan]

To be fair, I object to Jaheira's romance solely due to the way writers mislead people's opinions about Jaheira.

It could have been fixed pretty easy with timer code.

Set everything related to romance back to after Spellhold.

Like, after we discover the assassin who then killed Xzar, one person show up? Yeah, instead of several days, put it to after Spellhold.

It would have create a huge time span that we can have the impression that Khalid die a long time.

And we would have the opportunity of seeing gamers who're deep into another romance to stop that one and chase after Jaheira.

One timer code~

 

[santino27]

All this crying for mature, realistic storytelling regarding the jaheira romance in a game where it's heavily implied Minsc hid his hampster up his ass so Irenicus couldn't find it.

BG2 is not particularly mature, and it's definitely not trying to be great literature, and as a game and given the limits of the people working on it, it was probably better because of those things.

 

[Shaewaroz]

All this crying for mature, realistic storytelling regarding the jaheira romance in a game where it's heavily implied Minsc hid his hampster up his ass so Irenicus couldn't find it.

But the real question is whether he liked it?

 

[groundhog]

I was able to complete the romance, and she's not too bad, but there were times when I wanted to drown her face first in a trough.

Sounds like a pretty accurate representation of a real-life relationship to me.

 

[JDR13]

Holy shit guys. Slow days at The Codex?
By the way, you guys are faggots. Jaheira was the best romance.

My thoughts exactly. This might be one of the dumbest threads I've ever seen here.

 

[Yosharian]

Holy shit guys. Slow days at The Codex?
By the way, you guys are faggots. Jaheira was the best romance.

My thoughts exactly. This might be one of the dumbest threads I've ever seen here.

So what you're saying is, you never asked for this?

 

[Lacrymas]

It's not a dumb thread, it not only shows the developer's attitude towards romances, but also the players'. It can also lead to even more interesting discussions, like how the developers choose who to be romance options and why. How is someone designed when they are intended to be a romance option vs when they aren't. It's a vehicle for the exploration of our own culture, expectations, prejudices, stereotypes and attitudes. Jaheira is a great example for this.