Game News Underrail - alpha gameplay video

[villain of the story]

But I find it most ironic that you mention that Tim Cain as someone with street cred and then point to the shit combat in Bloodlines in the same paragraph, as if the latter is Brian was one of the figure heads responsible for that. I mean, HELLO, Tim Cain was the system designer in Bloodlines!

R00FLES!

What I find most disturbing is your lack of reading comprehension. Read it again, and a couple times more if you need to. It's not a complicated mater by any means, but I guess it must be hard coping with your disability and all, so I'll give you some leeway. Just don't run away like a little bitch again and make another alt. That's not cool, bro sis.

Tim Cain's "street cred" (for me) comes from Fallout and ToEE, having owned a game studio and managed several teams of developers. Plus, he's actually a capable programmer, not some random "game designer". Remind me again, in what game was Brian system designer?

BWHAA I DON'T GET MY FULL FEATURE DEMO ITS GONNA BE A TRAINWRECK

:baby:

 

[Grunker]

Marsal: Wow. Nice things and all that.

I know. The 30$ I paid all but forced me out on the street. Your words make me insecure if having blown my savings in this manner will not yield the great reward I expected. In case you're trolling like you usually do, it just baffles me you'd use this subject as your object (yo dat be rhymin', bra).

 

[kaizoku]

Of course not. You shower them with cash. Then you value Underrail at a fraction of that, because it doesn't have 3D graphics, isn't another zombie game and isn't being made by "famous" people with street cred and experience. Awesome.

It's not that *I* value them at a fraction. It was the number I perceived the public will value it. Again:

When I said 20k it was on my conviction that it would have a 99% chance of being successful.
But this is highly variable. For example, remember Legends of Eisenwald, they asked for 50k and got 80k.
When Styg is able to push out a polished and moderately sized demo that is able to captivate the players' interest, well, maybe he could even ask for 100k and be successful. But who knows...

Brian Fargo has street cred and experience

Really? What awesome games has he given us in the last 10 years?
At first before he even started the campaign I just thought he was going for the gold. But he keep mentioning things I wanted in a game, so that was why I pledged. I was willing to take that risk. And now I'm convinced that Wasteland 2 will be a pretty good game. But nothing is certain.

As for bitching about industry and whatnot, you have me mixed up with Skyway. It's all simple supply-demand. You are creating demand for vaporware by supporting Kickstarter project such as the zombie game.

Again the term vapor. I would say it's a bit more advanced than that.

I have nothing against idiots throwing their money away, I even encourage it. However, have in mind that it affects other, more promising projects, that will drown in a sea of vaporware, be devalued because they have set realistic goals or even get denied funding altogether when the Kickstarter bubble bursts.

So you encourage it and butthurt about it at the same time. Logic, how does it work? I ask again:

Tell me, so which projects have you been supporting so that we can all have nice things?

Where are those more promising projects? And has you said it, "It's all simple supply-demand".
If a project appeals to me and there are solid reasons to believe that it can be done, then I will support it.
And when the kick bubble bursts, that will just raise the bar. Making projects show up something up front. And that is already happening now. People who had no recognition had to show their work. People who have it, get to use that one time chance.
But keep in mind that projects by developers with some recognition will never be made unless there is cash up front. I know you don't see Mitsoda has having any recognition, but what to do.

What I find most disturbing is your lack of reading comprehension. Read it again, and a couple times more if you need to. It's not a complicated mater by any means, but I guess it must be hard coping with your disability and all, so I'll give you some leeway. Just don't run away like a little bitch again and make another alt. That's not cool, bro sis.

Tim Cain's "street cred" (for me) comes from Fallout and ToEE, having owned a game studio and managed several teams of developers. Plus, he's actually a capable programmer, not some random "game designer". Remind me again, in what game was Brian system designer?

What vots said. And by using your logic and considering his last 2 games had shitty combat (you said it yourself) shouldn't we assume his future games will also be shit? Come on, he's even working on Southpark, surely the man will only produce shit from now on...

 

[Styg]

That's a pretty sophisticated grid implementation but wouldn't it work out better if you went full out on it and displayed the denser grid with characters taking 3x3 and also allowed movement on that basis? Though you enjoy the practical simplicity of the current dual system, I suppose but it's bound to cause confusion on precision expectations from players. Likewise with LOS, I think game might look better if LOS worked as per the finer grid, assuming the tiles supported that.

It certainly would look better, but all calculations would also be slower (as well as the renderer) if I would to use the fine grid. I only introduced the sub-division so I could have smoother pathing. I understand the concern on player not knowing which characters his AoE ability will hit, but I'll address that differently (target highlighting, maybe using fine grid there if necessary). It's practical performance wise to have multi-layered approach.

Any grid subdivision should be visible.

There will be an option to turn the grid on.

- too expensive on the graphics department, considering all the armor-weapon combination that I need already and all the different animations already present

I thought the characters objects were 3D models. I guess they're 2D sprites instead.

They are prerendered 3D models. Adding new animations is both costly money-wise and memory-wise. And I would rather spend both of those on having more armor-weapon combinations than anything else at this point.

 

[Davaris]

The game is looking great Styg. I am getting a Fallout vibe from it and that feels so good. I really like the atmospheric music you have in the video. Its amazing how the flickering lights and music work together, to set the right mood.

And I wouldn't be shy about having a Kickstarter, if I were you. Just think, with a modest sum, you could offload all the artwork onto a professional and spend your time scripting and coding.

 

[Mortmal]

Indeed its excellent stuff looks like this has been in development since quite a few years already. Many gameplay elements in this video, very falloutesque again,the music adds to it too. Hope you dont fuck up the plot and makes something worth it. Most of the indies have cliche and boring stories, make something for adults , with adults options (no that doesnt mean tastefull rape) . Think about real pen and paper sessions and what would players says and how they solve quests , no fuckin fetch 10 rat tails quests please!
This could be on kickstarter to get more anims and more textures to your game, although not a priority at all, gameplay is king.

 

[Wavinator]

Very nice presentation, Styg. I'm really looking forward to the indirect options like hacking, stealth and using the vents. The way you're handling conversation looks promising as well. Definite buy for me when it comes out!

(And once again, know I said it before in Workshop, but damn if I can't believe you achieved such fine results with MS Paint!!!!)

 

[shihonage]

 

[Suchy]

Do want. Now. All right, I know it's in progress, so what about Thursday?

Anyway, need help with music? I could cook some creepy ambient (or not so creepy) in my spare time, it's my hobby after all.

 

[DwarvenFood]

Good to see this going forward nicely, hope it can generate some more hype. I love the graphics. Interesting Kickstarter discussion here, maybe you could word the Kickstarter more as of a means to improve the game, perhaps for higher res gfx or outdoor locations.. because this game is going to get done, Kickstarter or not.. similar to Grim Dawn.. Something to think about. Personally I am more excited for this, than a zombie-game.

 

[Ulminati]

Looking better every time this game is shown off. Would pledge to a kickstarter.

 

[Marsal]

Firstly, let me be clear: I have used and will continue to use the zombie game as an example for comparison, only because I followed its development (on the Codex and ITS forums), not because it's THE vaporware project on Kickstarter.

Marsal: Wow. Nice things and all that.

I know. The 30$ I paid all but forced me out on the street. Your words make me insecure if having blown my savings in this manner will not yield the great reward I expected. In case you're trolling like you usually do, it just baffles me you'd use this subject as your object (yo dat be rhymin', bra).

That's EXACTLY what I wrote! You understand me! Seriously, don't make me respond to this, bro. You know you have a special place in my heart.

It's not that *I* value them at a fraction. It was the number I perceived the public will value it.

Exactly. As I said, you are changing the perceived value by sponsoring everything and anything with some vague promise:

You are creating demand for vaporware by supporting Kickstarter project such as the zombie game. I have nothing against idiots throwing their money away, I even encourage it. However, have in mind that it affects other, more promising projects, that will drown in a sea of vaporware, be devalued because they have set realistic goals or even get denied funding altogether when the Kickstarter bubble bursts.

Really? What awesome games has he given us in the last 10 years?
At first before he even started the campaign I just thought he was going for the gold. But he keep mentioning things I wanted in a game, so that was why I pledged. I was willing to take that risk. And now I'm convinced that Wasteland 2 will be a pretty good game. But nothing is certain.

Fargo is probably the person with ideal qualifications you want to make a Kickstarter founded game. He began by making his own games and grew that into a successful publishing business that made and/or published several of our favorite games. He's a business man with actual game development experience. A man who handles the money and marketing freeing developers to do their thing, plus knows enough to make hard decisions (cuts) early on, but not to meddle in development with inane requests (like having both RT & TB combat in Arcanum). I don't see how you can top that.

Let me ask you this: when was any of the zombie guys lead designer or project lead on a (published) game?

Again the term vapor. I would say it's a bit more advanced than that.

They have worked on the game for 3(?) years and have very little to show for it. But, fine, what term would you like me to use? Advanced vapor? Fog? Dew?

So you encourage it and butthurt about it at the same time. Logic, how does it work?

You should really look that up and stop asking random people on the Internet to teach you. I like seeing idiots waste their money (it has a chance to get to non-idiots), but I don't like the effect it has on things I value. Capiche?

What's with all the "butthurts"? Are you all VD's disciples or something? Or are you gay and can't stop thinking about it? Maybe it's just awesome saying "butthurt". Let me try:

Why are you so defensive and butthurt about me criticizing your "investments", kaizoku? Why do you feel you have to justify them to me? Don't be so butthurt, bro. Take it easy! Being butthurt about other people not liking the stupid shit you do is not healthy. Chill, live you life and stop being butthurt. Being butthurt is not cool. Say no to butthurt, bro.

Meh, not feeling it. I guess you have to be "special" to enjoy it.

Tell me, so which projects have you been supporting so that we can all have nice things? Where are those more promising projects? And has you said it, "It's all simple supply-demand".
If a project appeals to me and there are solid reasons to believe that it can be done, then I will support it.
And when the kick bubble bursts, that will just raise the bar. Making projects show up something up front. And that is already happening now. People who had no recognition had to show their work. People who have it, get to use that one time chance.
But keep in mind that projects by developers with some recognition will never be made unless there is cash up front. I know you don't see Mitsoda has having any recognition, but what to do.

The bar will be surely raised, but I worry it might break in the process.

When you buy/don't buy shitty games, you vote with your wallet. In the case of games with huge budgets, everything the Codex spends on them can be considered a rounding error in the grand scheme of things. Every bit helps, but your "vote" isn't that valuable or important.

Now, with Kickstarter, Codex' contributions alone can almost be measured in percentage points of the total budget. That is not an insignificant amount for any project.

Games I supported:
From "vaporware category" (didn't show anything "tangible") only Wasteland 2. From "non-vaporware" category: Xenonauts and couple of boardgames with interesting mechanics (e.g. BattleCON), but usually only when I saw the (first draft of the) rules.

What vots said. And by using your logic and considering his last 2 games had shitty combat (you said it yourself) shouldn't we assume his future games will also be shit? Come on, he's even working on Southpark, surely the man will only produce shit from now on...

You really are stupid and I'm wasting my time answering your inane ramblings. It's my point that reputation is subjective and overrated (ask Molyneux) and that we should demand to see something concrete.

I was listing Tim Cain and Brian Fargo as people whom *I* would trust to lead the project, funding it on Kickstarter is a separate issue (one other guy/people from the top of my head would be Julian Gollop/his brother).

So why did I back Wasteland 2?

Wasteland 2 didn't show anything at all (not even 3 second shots of gameplay) and didn't have 3 years of development before going on Kickstarter. You may think this is a plus for the zombie guys, but having so little to show after 3 years is not really something positive. OTOH Fargo owns(?) an actual fully staffed game development company capable of making games (shitty, but completed games). He has the experience making and producing games similar to W2 and in many other important areas (see above). In addition, Wasteland 2 isn't really an indie game, but more of a "standard" game with alternate funding. Having resources (except financial) and know-how is concrete enough for me to pledge.

As for Tim Cain, my reasoning was:

Tim Cain's "street cred" (for me) comes from Fallout and ToEE, having owned a game studio and managed several teams of developers. Plus, he's actually a capable programmer, not some random "game designer".

Tim Cain has, at worst, vast project lead and game systems design experience and a mixed success rate. If he went on Kickstarter alone, I'd probably want to see some gameplay (which he would surely provide, as any serious game designer would). If he had, let's say, Obsidian working with (under) him, I'd probably be fine with talk only.

Now compare this to the zombie guys and tell me where they come even close. Zombie guys have nothing but ideas, and ideas are cheap. Take any random Codexer and he has a brilliant idea for the BESTEST GAEM EVAR!!! You can't extrapolate anything from "no data".

In conclusion:
1. Everything is subjective (at least to some degree).
2. Ideas are cheap.
3. My opinion is that you're doing more harm than good by financing suspect (again, IMO) projects.
4. It is your money and you are free to spend it any way you like, but not everything you do has localized effects.
5. If you're an indie, you need to show (prototype) gameplay.
6. If you have a studio backing, you can get by with just "talk".
7. Reputation means very little, but will lend credence to your "talk".

Aw, shit. You made me write a wall of text. Azrael would be proud.

 

[Grunker]

vague promise

Screenshots full of dialogue and gameplay, complete GUI, and detailed mission statements on game mechanics are now vague promises.

In that case, the Shadowrun Returns kickstarter was less than a vague promise (vague suggestion?). BUT THEN AGAIN I DIDN'T GIVE MY JEWGOLD TO THAT ONE, EH

 

[villain of the story]

Let's just stop responding to vague posts. If and when Marsal starts replying in video to show us that he's real deal, then we might consider taking him seriously.

Anyway, Styg, I noticed in the video that during dialogue, there are observation remarks in colour. Are these based on stats? Also, for some reason, I got the impression that there might be more to those, eg. when you get observation text, you click on it and make further assessments but that's most likely just my imagination.

By the way, it was kind of eye-straining when the game screen panned between participants in the dialogue.

 

[Styg]

Anyway, Styg, I noticed in the video that during dialogue, there are observation remarks in colour. Are these based on stats? Also, for some reason, I got the impression that there might be more to those, eg. when you get observation text, you click on it and make further assessments but that's most likely just my imagination.

Some of them are based on stats, like when in demo the player notices that the raiders get apprehensive when he tells them where he's from. You can't click on these observations and use them directly, but they may open up new dialog options. Whenever something in dialog is influenced by player skills or other stats it is marked as such [in brackets].

 

[Marsal]

vague promise

Screenshots full of dialogue and gameplay, complete GUI, and detailed mission statements on game mechanics are now vague promises.

Yes, they are, after 3 years of development. Not being able to show couple of minutes of uncut gameplay or even a single combat encounter is not substituted with some screenshots and mission statements. Please read, and try to understand, what I wrote before commenting again, bro.

In that case, the Shadowrun Returns kickstarter was less than a vague promise (vague suggestion?). BUT THEN AGAIN I DIDN'T GIVE MY JEWGOLD TO THAT ONE, EH

I didn't really pay much attention Shadowrun Returns, as it had already been funded by the time I was able to catch up on it (vaguely remember the original game). But, in principle, yes. I could have responded by childishly mocking your way of seeing things, but I still respect you enough not to do so.

Let's just stop responding to vague posts. If and when Marsal starts replying in video to show us that he's real deal, then we might consider taking him seriously.

That's pretty rich coming from a little bitch that covers in fear and makes alts ever so often. What's the count at now? Four? Five?

 

[Grunker]

I could have responded by childishly mocking your way of seeing things, but I still respect you enough not to do so.

Considering the schizophric eagerness with which you jump hastily back and forth from informed opinions and honest discussion and flat-out, over-the-top trolling, you're hardly one to act bothered by a few strawmen here and there, brother.

Nevertheless, it's very simple. With the amount of honest-to-God attempts at RPGs we've seen the last 10 years, I'm more than willing to gamble on two outstanding project leads with good references and their screenshots and mission statements. I'm of the opinion that you should feel completely free not to donate, what prompted me to respond here is the fervor with which you argue that donating is outright illogical. I'm hoping the Kickstarter will bring me just one or two good, complete games with gameplay reminiscent of the olden days, and in the longer term, I hope this proves to smaller teams (10-20 people) that there is profit and experience in developing games for us. For this to be succesful, I have no qualms what so ever with shelling out between 10 and 30 dollars to a couple of projects.

In the end, I haven't paid more than 110$ to around 6 Kickstarters in total. So that's 110$ paid for six games, and if two of them are reminiscent of complete, full-fledged RPGs of back then - perhaps even with good modernization, then I'm more than satisfied. I'd argue that if you hang out on the 'dex complaining each and every day that video games are in a state of decline, yet you're unwilling to donate very little to a couple of promising projects to try to force a bit of positive innovation into the market, then you're nothing but a self-rightous poser (or a dead broke bastard, which is fair enough I guess).

 

[kaizoku]

Marsal what's up with the personal attacks?






u butthurt about something?

 

[Marsal]

Considering the schizophric eagerness with which you jump hastily back and forth from informed opinions and honest discussion and flat-out, over-the-top trolling, you're hardly one to act bothered by a few strawmen here and there, brother.

Nevertheless, it's very simple. With the amount of honest-to-God attempts at RPGs we've seen the last 10 years, I'm more than willing to gamble on two outstanding project leads with good references and their screenshots and mission statements. I'm of the opinion that you should feel completely free not to donate, what prompted me to respond here is the fervor with which you argue that donating is outright illogical. I'm hoping the Kickstarter will bring me just one or two good, complete games with gameplay reminiscent of the olden days, and in the longer term, I hope this proves to smaller teams (10-20 people) that there is profit and experience in developing games for us. For this to be succesful, I have no qualms what so ever with shelling out between 10 and 30 dollars to a couple of projects.

In the end, I haven't paid more than 110$ to around 6 Kickstarters in total. So that's 110$ paid for six games, and if two of them are reminiscent of complete, full-fledged RPGs of back then - perhaps even with good modernization, then I'm more than satisfied. I'd argue that if you hang out on the 'dex complaining each and every day that video games are in a state of decline, yet you're unwilling to donate very little to a couple of promising projects to try to force a bit of positive innovation into the market, then you're nothing but a self-rightous poser (or a dead broke bastard, which is fair enough I guess).

This is the last time I let shit like this slide, bro.

Are you outright ignoring the conclusions at the end of my "wall of text" post (I realize it was of TL;DR quality)?

Let me just ask you this:
Why are you so butthurt about my comments and me not pledging to the zombie game?
Why the constant need to justify and boast about your pledges? Are you that insecure in your taste and seek constant approval?
Do you realize my comments are not about the amount of money spent on Kickstarter, but the games pledged to and influence of those pledges on subsequent indie projects?

 

[Grunker]

This is the last time I let shit like this slide, bro.

uh-huh

Are you outright ignoring the conclusions at the end of my "wall of text" post

No, I am dismissive of them. You don't explain half of them, and the other half I disagree with. For example, you claim that the Codex contributions are bad because in your mind while Fargo is totally trustworthy Annie and Brian are not.

Bull-fucking-shit. For all the good things about Fargo, he has been involved in a company the Codex now despises, and we have an almost direct line to Annie and Brian (they're really easy to get ahold of for the staff) while Fargo in most regards is far away. In short, plenty of things speaks for and against Brian, Annie and Fargo. There is no way you can conclude from the small tidbits we've seen of either game than anyone will be more of what we want than the other. Except that Wasteland 2 has more moneyz lol

Why are you so butthurt about my comments and me not pledging to the zombie game?

why are you so butthurt about my comments and me pledging to the zombie game ololololol

*sigh*

I don't care that you didn't pledge, but I am disdainful of the view that backing a resurgence of oldschool mechanics is a bad thing. The Codex exists for the purposes of this very debate - exists to figure out how to get more good shit. At least it does for me. You seem to think pledging to games that hold what we want as guiding stars for their design is a bad idea - I do not. Hence we disagree, hence we discuss.

Troll away when you get tired of the discussion motherfucker, you know I'm an easy target. What I'm here for is enlightening shouting matches, and the kind where you shout butthurt at my shouts aren't that fucking enlightening.

Do you realize my comments are not about the amount of money spent on Kickstarter, but the games pledged to and influence of those pledges on subsequent indie projects?

Yes, I do, but you do not explain in depth what it is that you are so fucking afraid of. If it's just that all these projects turn into vapourware and the money is wasted, well, do you think that will kill Kickstarter or the possible resurgence it can start? I don't. At most, it will stop further Kickstarter projects without a half-finished game to present, which is cool with me.

Any investment, and this goes for Kickstarter as well, is a risk. Some (Dead State, Wasteland 2) are bigger than others (Xenonauts). So the size of the reward you might reap needs to make up for the risk. The promised rewards for Dead Money and Wasteland 2 are.

In closing, should you still feel I am a retard incapable of understanding (feel free to quote that out of context too, I made it just for you! ) your meaning, then might the reason be, perhaps, that you are unable to convey it properly?

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."

- Albert

 

[villain of the story]

That's pretty rich coming from a little bitch that covers in fear and makes alts ever so often. What's the count at now? Four? Five?

LOLWUT

SO off the mark, homeboy. But keep the Walls of Butthurt coming

Where is the video, by the way? What, you expect people to read your nonsensical diatribe? It might at least be entertaining to see your butthurt face on a video

 

[villain of the story]

Anyway, Styg, I noticed in the video that during dialogue, there are observation remarks in colour. Are these based on stats? Also, for some reason, I got the impression that there might be more to those, eg. when you get observation text, you click on it and make further assessments but that's most likely just my imagination.

Some of them are based on stats, like when in demo the player notices that the raiders get apprehensive when he tells them where he's from. You can't click on these observations and use them directly, but they may open up new dialog options. Whenever something in dialog is influenced by player skills or other stats it is marked as such [in brackets].

Conventionally cool enough. Are the [dialogue options] insta-win or is there a roll behind those ones? Can you fail an option? If you can fail those, is there any indicator of whether you might fail or succeed?

Also, tell us a little about equipment and combat. Will we have gun porn? What kind of weapons are there? Are there different types of ammo per weapon? Any combat situations outside the combat system (eg. text adventure)?

 

[shihonage]

Underrail is 3743 times more real than either Wasteland 2 or Dead State. There's a colossal amount of engine work that's been done by this point. Not "future work", not "potential work", but here's someone who is actually doing it instead of talking about his "visions" and making "promises".

And yet this thread derailed into Vaporware1 vs. Vaporware2 debate - which is better and why?

 

[villain of the story]

Stop contributing to the decline and ask questions to learn from your better who managed to get his own game project to a respectable stage *cough*Shelter*cough*

 

[Styg]

Are the [dialogue options] insta-win or is there a roll behind those ones? Can you fail an option? If you can fail those, is there any indicator of whether you might fail or succeed?

There is no indicator if you failed or succeeded, beyond what you can read from the NPC reactions yourself. Most situations will be influenced by more than just your skill and sometimes you can have varying degrees of success. Example for the former in the demo is that if you tell the raiders where you come from (one of more powerful station-states in the south) it will be easier to intimidate them.

All that said, I wouldn't really call Underrail a dialog heavy game. It will have moderate amounts of dialog as they are not really my strength.

Also, tell us a little about equipment and combat. Will we have gun porn? What kind of weapons are there? Are there different types of ammo per weapon?

There are the following classes of weapons: melee (knives, crowbars and sledgehammers), pistols, SMGs, crossbows, and assault and sniper rifles. Each firearm caliber will have several different ammo types (JHP, AP, etc); crossbows will be able to fire special bolts (poison, explosive, etc); energy weapons will only have one ammo type - energy, of course.

There will be special (artifact) weapons, but I'll talk more about those when I get some of them done.

Also, no gun porn, just little icons.

Any combat situations outside the combat system (eg. text adventure)?

You mean like roleplaying combat through dialog? No.