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What is this kid's problem?

Discussion in 'The Gazebo' started by Avian Mosquito, Dec 31, 2014.

  1. Avian Mosquito Educated

    Avian Mosquito
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    So, I'm running a campaign in my own system (in an incomplete setting, making things up as I go, which I do a lot), and for our first campaign in this setting my daughter brings a new boy over. This is the second time she's brought a new boy, and I expected issues because that's what happened last time, and prepared for immense stupidity. What I got was not stupidity. I got active malice.

    It started before the game did. He was skimming the rulebook while I got the food ready, and he asked where the alignment system was. I told him there wasn't one. He smiled, and I thought all was well. Then we actually got into the game, and I realized why he was smiling. The very first quest was to clear a nest of giant beetles out of a pasture. A woman flagged them down as they approached the town, recognizing them as adventurers, explained the problem and promised them a reward. And he said "Let's just kill her. Her house is one room, the reward should be easy to find."

    I didn't quite know what to say to that. Sam chimed in with "And that would be wrong.". My head stopped spinning, and I added "Kid, this is just a starter quest, to give you some XP before you get onto the plot.". And he responded with "Yeah, but she's worth more XP than those beetles anyway.". And sure, that was correct, the woman was worth 300xp and the beetles were 140 between the nine of them. I pointed out that there was quest XP as well, he pointed out it was only 100xp and she was still worth 25% more than the whole quest. I started making a moral argument, and he said "But there's no alignment system, so there's no right and wrong.", and I gave up. I'm pretty sure he knew damn well that "subjective morality" does NOT mean "no morality" and was just trying to rationalize being a bastard to NPCs. I had to tell him they were within sight of the town wall and a couple other farms, and this action would end in a TPK, to get him to drop it.

    Well, we've been at this all yesterday and today. We were actually playing all night, the party members are all levels 8-10, and in all this time he did NOT improve. He's continued suggesting we kill quest givers, gone out of his way to terrorize townsfolk for personal gain, and today I finally had enough. A shopkeeper asked a ridiculously high price for a box of -3 potions of adept stabilization (potions that temporarily boost your health, to avoid penalties in combat), and instead of, you know, HAGGLING, he hopped the counter, beat the shopkeeper to death, and started stuffing potions in his backpack. And "So what. We're in the afterlife, he's dead already." was his only justification for it.

    Two minutes (game time) later, he left the shop. A town guard confronted him, he broke the guard's leg and ran. He got away, too. Thought he was clear until the town gates closed. He went in quietly to the prisons with the next guards showed up, he started making an argument that he was working for the pharaoh and was too valuable to jail, then he bribed the judge and got off free. I bet he thought he was real hot shit, too, until he was at the town gates and saw six people coming at him. And the other four behind him.

    Now, if this was D&D, he'd have been fine. But it's not D&D, or anything remotely like it. In two minutes, they'd dragged him to the ground, pulled off his helmet, and punched him a dozen times in the head. And while his character is getting beat the fuck down, he's grinning like a maniac. He said "Nice. Can't wait to see the rest of the campaign." So he's making a new character. And I'm not sure how I feel about that. I mean, I know what he was doing now, he was seeing how I was handling morality since there wasn't an alignment system, but I don't like people killing off my NPCs and derailing my campaign just to see how I respond.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2014
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  2. ColCol Arcane

    ColCol
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    That sucks, you should set bear traps around his house to get him back.
     
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  3. empyrean Scholar

    empyrean
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    That kind of guy is colloquially known as a "murderhobo." :popamole:
     
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  4. Awor Szurkrarz Arcane In My Safe Space

    Awor Szurkrarz
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    Sounds like you got an adept of Mondblutian school of roleplaying :D .
     
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  5. Poos Arcane

    Poos
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    future son in law just pwned the Old Man hahahahahahah
     
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  6. Insane Psychic Augur Patron

    Insane Psychic
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    Just make sure any future quest givers can wipe out the party at a whim. Also, you could justify shopkeepers selling magic items, being protected from thieves and robbers, which should be a problem when trading in such valuable goods.
     
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  7. Avian Mosquito Educated

    Avian Mosquito
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    In order:

    I don't see how bear traps would solve anything, but the idea amuses me.

    I believe I called him a murderhobo twice in the campaign. He responded with "Hey, I bought a house." Which he did, about when he hit level 5. Not the nicest place, just one room, but it works.

    Not familiar with the term "Mondblutian".

    Oh no. He is definitely not my "future son in law", I can assure you of that.

    I really can't justify either of those with the setting, though. Especially since that shop was a hole. I mean, -3/Adept (-3 ingredients, adept alchemist) was the best he had. This system doesn't work like a lot of others, but I assure you, -3/Adept is shit.
     
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  8. Awor Szurkrarz Arcane In My Safe Space

    Awor Szurkrarz
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    People who just want numbers to go up and who want to fuck around with the game.

    Can't you just kick him out of the group? I mean, it's hard to have any serious campaign with someone who kills an NPC because he's worth XP.
    He probably should look for a group of munchkins and mayhem seekers.
     
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  9. Avian Mosquito Educated

    Avian Mosquito
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    Normally I would, but since he was acting like that to see how I would handle it without an alignment system to hide behind, I don't think he'll act like that with his new character. And if he does, then I will kick him out.
     
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  10. agentorange Arcane Patron

    agentorange
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    sounds like a bright kid
     
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  11. Avian Mosquito Educated

    Avian Mosquito
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    :notsureifserious:
     
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  12. laclongquan Arcane

    laclongquan
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    You are too mild in responding.

    A character kill a shopkeeper for no good reason? No shopkeeper will deal directly with him afterward "Shop CLosed" signs all over the place. Any proxy goes in buy for him? 100% markup on sight. too expensive? There's the door. Any party associated with him get hit with penalties like that.

    Sure, you are teh government's hot shit. Doesnt mean shopkeepers have to deal with a turd unless they have to...

    Later on, constant but mild harrassment by thugs (assumed to be hired by dead man's relatives). Kill the thugs? Get to prison and he will have to bribe his way out. With bigger bribe. Again and again. Dont think the guards forget he did break leg one of theirs.

    Young bastards like that think actions dont have enough consequences. Your job as GM is to show them there're more than enough consequences, that the best case is pray for mercy and good luck, not justice.
     
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  13. Avian Mosquito Educated

    Avian Mosquito
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    You think getting beaten to death by an angry mob is too mild?
     
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  14. Dire Roach Prophet

    Dire Roach
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    Hosting a game for a new player and having them turn out to be a murderhobo sucks. However, it seems like you handled the situation poorly.

    First of all, it looks like you started the campaign without a proper background for the PCs. Were they a band of adventurers who randomly decided to travel together for no good reason? They knew nothing about each other and were surprised to discover at the beginning of the adventure that one of them was a blatant sociopath. Did they all end up reluctantly agreeing to his plan to murder the woman and steal her reward? Would the same situation had happened if the kid's character had started out with clear story-related goals and motivations?

    Second, you showed him clearly that the system you're using for XP rewards favors killing over doing good deeds. Being a munchkin, the kid's choice was obvious. As the GM, it's your job to adjust reward incentives so that the players are more likely to go in the direction of the story you'd like to tell.

    Third, you made the mistake of using a system that lacks moral alignment, but assuming that a new player would RP their character in a good-ish, non-chaotic way. There is nothing wrong with players RPing chaotic and/or evil PCs, as long as they are aware of the limitations and consequences of playing them. You believe that he did it just to spite you, but the truth is that you as a GM cannot dictate how players should play their characters. He was completely within his right to suggest murdering the woman. Did the PC's actions mess with the possibilities of carrying out the story you had planned for them? Too bad, players are just as responsible as the GM, if not more, for controlling how the story unfolds in a PnP RPG. It sounds like you're too used to having the players be do-gooders and following the railroaded story that you have written for them.
     
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  15. Clockwork Knight Arcane

    Clockwork Knight
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    but who was phone Sam?

    After he caused chaos for a long time, yeah. Just learn to pick up on when he's planning something (look for the glint of the smile) and take notes so you can make it come back to bite him in the ass later. At least you don't need to go SPACE ROCK FALLS ON YOUR HEAD YOU DIE since he's actively looking for trouble, instead of just cheesing his way in safety.

    Also, what's with the harmless farmer girl being worth more XP than a group of nine monsters
     
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  16. Irenaeus Self-Ejected Patron Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual The Real Fanboy

    Self-Ejected
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    I like this kid already.
     
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  17. Grimwulf Arcane Patron Vatnik

    Grimwulf
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    Why don't you play along? If he's looking for trouble - give him some. Let's say those beaten shopkeepers or grandsons of murdered farmers put up a bounty on his head.

    Bounty hunters was the method my GM used back in the day, when he wanted his message delivered.
     
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  18. Avian Mosquito Educated

    Avian Mosquito
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    Bullshit in 3... 2... 1...

    No, I just didn't tell *you* their background.

    I said they didn't in the original post.

    Yes, because they DID.

    This is the natural result of grading combat XP by threat posed.

    Level 3 human (grade 5):
    300xp

    Giant scarab (grade 3):
    15xp

    Giant scarab (grade 4):
    20xp

    Level 1 ratstomper:
    100xp

    Not getting TPK'd for being a fucking sociopath:
    Priceless.

    Alignment systems are inherently garbage, I didn't include one specifically to avoid the shallow, one-dimensional crap they produce.

    And "chaotic" is neither evil nor wrong.

    This nonsensical gibberish is entirely your own deranged imaginings, completely unbacked by the given information.

    My little girl.

    She's more dangerous than they are. The giant scarabs are this setting's giant rats. (Although in this system, actual giant rats are stronger than wolves. Not the point.) Children hunt these things for sport. Meanwhile, she's level 3 and more importantly a human.

    I did play along. He bribed some officials, then the public got wind of his release and took his punishment into their own hands. No GM intervention, just the realistic consequences of his actions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2014
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  19. nikolokolus Arcane

    nikolokolus
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    Why grant any XP at all for killing the NPC? Adjust on the fly and give her 2 hit points so she goes down in one shot and make it so whatever "reward" she might have given the PCs is well hidden in a place not in her home. You don't have to reward shitty play.

    Assuming that players are going to want to jump on to the rails you lay out for them is a trend in PnP games I just don't get. Predetermined plotting is important in a book, movie or CRPG, but you miss out on a lot when you don't let PnP games unfold organically. The story is what you tell when you look back on your campaign and impose some sort of narrative on top of all of the chaos. Starting a game with a "story" that characters are meant to follow invariably leads to plot armor, dice fudging and lack of player agency.
     
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  20. Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis

    Darth Roxor
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    uh-huh
     
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  21. Avian Mosquito Educated

    Avian Mosquito
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    That is about six kinds of stupid. Not hyperbole.

    "Why don't you just throw out the rulebook just to be unfair to the players, then let one retard fuck the whole party just to be even more unfair to the other players who aren't him?"

    Even funnier, you then accuse ME of railroading after you say this stupid shit.

    Also, love how you're struggling with singular and plural case. There is ONE murder hobo, and four players actually interested in some goddamn roleplaying.

    There are no rails. Just a destination and a supply of resources, not that you know what the difference is. You can't even tell the difference between the plural and singular case of the word "player", since you lumped the entire rest of the party in with the one person actively working against their interests for the second time now.

    No, it doesn't, you moron.
     
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  22. Dire Roach Prophet

    Dire Roach
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    Actually, yes, you're supposed to throw out the rules when they get in the way of telling a good story.

    Just admit you're a bad GM and accept the kid boned your game just as easily as he's boning your daughter while you're busy watching and replying to this thread.
     
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  23. dryan Arcane

    dryan
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    Playing PnP with your kids? Eh I dunno. Nothing good can come of this.
     
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  24. TheGreatOne Arcane

    TheGreatOne
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    So you're complaining that the kid is efficient/rational and outplayed you in your own game... what's your problem again?
    Oh, I see, being a faggot.

    Shouldn't you just be happy that there are still young kids who are even willing to play P&P RPGs? Or at the very least become a better designer if you don't want this sort of thing happening.:nofunallowed:
     
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  25. laclongquan Arcane

    laclongquan
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    Look, beating to death in a game is the easy way out. A particular sadistic will think of much more shits to deal with that kid.

    I am not particular S, so I can only offer what I can think of. And let me tell you, I can think of a few fate worse than dead by mob lynchings.

    While he buy tools, the seller give him a nasty weapon. Like the leather string on sword is toxic, to poison the user gently (mild curse but very hard to detected: -1 AGI after two days carry on person, or something). The easiest solution, but expensive, is to burn all he carry. Problem solved! Oops: he has nothing now.

    Or he get subtly poisoned by a food seller selling cheap foods.

    Continuos daily harrassment, that's the ticket.

    EDIT: to be clear, I dont like that fucker. Either a kill-them-all RPG gamer, or a troll who mess with GM. Either way he deserve whatever you can dish out.
     
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