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People don't know 'wtf' an RPG is anymore?
- Thread starter DefJam101
- Start date
DefJam101
Arcane
I always figured that a game was an RPG if you DEFINE a role, not just play it.
Like, in Halo, you play a ROLE (Master Whatshisface) but you can't change it, it's not dynamic. You don't decide who he is, he just.. is.
In an RPG you take a character (or make one) and make choices for them that define who they 'are'. This isn't just stats, it's views/beliefs/actions etc. You might start with 'Guy.' and end up with "Guy who crushed the rebels." which is different from "Guy who assassinated the king and brought peace to the lands."
Unfortunately most RPGs today seemed to be based completely around stats/loot, though. So your choices are "Guy with shiny spells and robe." or "Guy with shiny sword." or more recently "Guy with shiny spells, a robe, and a shiny sword."
Like, in Halo, you play a ROLE (Master Whatshisface) but you can't change it, it's not dynamic. You don't decide who he is, he just.. is.
In an RPG you take a character (or make one) and make choices for them that define who they 'are'. This isn't just stats, it's views/beliefs/actions etc. You might start with 'Guy.' and end up with "Guy who crushed the rebels." which is different from "Guy who assassinated the king and brought peace to the lands."
Unfortunately most RPGs today seemed to be based completely around stats/loot, though. So your choices are "Guy with shiny spells and robe." or "Guy with shiny sword." or more recently "Guy with shiny spells, a robe, and a shiny sword."
Nog Robbin
Scholar
While the term role playing game would tend to indicate playing a game under the role of the character the actual "role" part tends to get forgotten and all that is used is the idea of stats and progression. This does go back to part of the original table top role playing games which tended to use character growth as a main characteristic. However, table top roleplaying with real people and a real game controller (GM/DM) would allow for character roles to be played and reacted to accordingly. CRPGs don't have that sort of flexibility (to actually interpret a characters actions other than by quest or dialogue choice) - they can track numbers though and allow a character to get progressively stronger (though if OB is the future of RPGs then this is pointless as it all scales to the character level anyway).
A lot of "role playing" within a CRPG these days is left up to the player to imagine - even simple things like sinking if wearing heavy armour is removed to allow instant accessibility to action, consequently the action of removing your armour to swim is seen by some to be role playing. Likewise consuming food, tidying rooms, leaving items behind after a kill (like a calling card) - all things the game takes no notice of what so ever - are taken to be role playing. The fact that the system *could* take notice of at least some of the actions seems to escape people.
Role playing is also often mixed up with linearity - a "true" role playing game lets the player go where they want when they want picking and choosing what they do. This is also not the case, though a non-linear game may be more enjoyable than one that has a strict route. However, a game offering freedom of action but with only one real path through the game is no better than a linear game, and indeed the strength of any underlying story is likely to be lost in the push to allow a player the sense of freedom.
Finally, a role playing game should be about the characters abilities more than the players abilities. The character skills and statistics should determine the chance of success at various activities, not how well the player can use a joystick (or keyboard and mouse). In a role playing game it is the decisions a person makes for their character that should make the most impact. This is becoming more and more over looked in the rush to give constant activity to the player.
A lot of "role playing" within a CRPG these days is left up to the player to imagine - even simple things like sinking if wearing heavy armour is removed to allow instant accessibility to action, consequently the action of removing your armour to swim is seen by some to be role playing. Likewise consuming food, tidying rooms, leaving items behind after a kill (like a calling card) - all things the game takes no notice of what so ever - are taken to be role playing. The fact that the system *could* take notice of at least some of the actions seems to escape people.
Role playing is also often mixed up with linearity - a "true" role playing game lets the player go where they want when they want picking and choosing what they do. This is also not the case, though a non-linear game may be more enjoyable than one that has a strict route. However, a game offering freedom of action but with only one real path through the game is no better than a linear game, and indeed the strength of any underlying story is likely to be lost in the push to allow a player the sense of freedom.
Finally, a role playing game should be about the characters abilities more than the players abilities. The character skills and statistics should determine the chance of success at various activities, not how well the player can use a joystick (or keyboard and mouse). In a role playing game it is the decisions a person makes for their character that should make the most impact. This is becoming more and more over looked in the rush to give constant activity to the player.
humorguy
Novice
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
- Messages
- 38
The OP got it right. But this just means old-school RPG's are going to disappear, because we had this same argument 10 years ago about the adventure game genre. When Tomb Raider was the first game to be called an 'Action-Adventure' , adventure gamers went potty, saying the game was a 3D platform shooter not an adventure anything! This argument went on for a while as more and more adventures had 'action' in them, and finally the 'old school' adventure genre disappeared from the mainstream!
I see this process happening right now with the cRPG genre. Confusion just means cRPG's are being changed and old school gamers can see it, and newer gamers can't. This mean an old school RPG'er will never see Jade Empire as a cRPG, but newer 'multiformat' gamer will.
So any old school cRPG's you haven't bought yet, i'd get them now, because prices are going to shoot up on ebay when they are no more! Although if you don't mind not having the packaging, GOG,com will be your saviour!
I see this process happening right now with the cRPG genre. Confusion just means cRPG's are being changed and old school gamers can see it, and newer gamers can't. This mean an old school RPG'er will never see Jade Empire as a cRPG, but newer 'multiformat' gamer will.
So any old school cRPG's you haven't bought yet, i'd get them now, because prices are going to shoot up on ebay when they are no more! Although if you don't mind not having the packaging, GOG,com will be your saviour!
Jaime Lannister
Arbiter
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2007
- Messages
- 7,183
The birth of a legend.
torpid
Liturgist
wtf necro
Ion Flux
Savant
MisterStone
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2006
- Messages
- 9,422
DefJam101 said:
Holy shit, young DefJam was wise beyond his years. Eloquently put!
Ion Flux
Savant
MisterStone said:
I know, this is a pretty good distillation of the concept really.
Mister Arkham
Scholar
What? Whoa. What? What a strange thing to necro, but an interesting thread none the less.
I kind of miss DefJam. I haven't seen him around here in forever.
I kind of miss DefJam. I haven't seen him around here in forever.
MisterStone said:
Exactly. Very well said. Should be one of the fundamental statements in an RPG definition.
Awor Szurkrarz
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2009
- Messages
- 21,899
humorguy said:
MisterStone
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2006
- Messages
- 9,422
MicoSelva said:
But then again what about Ultima Series from IV on where you are always the Avatar, and you can only win the game if you act like him?
Ashamed to say, but never played Ultima games. Do You have any control over Avatar's class/skills/build (not sure how it works there)?
If so, You do define the role, it's just the identity that is set.
EDIT: also, not all RPGs need to have equal amount of every RPG element. The focus can vary.
If so, You do define the role, it's just the identity that is set.
EDIT: also, not all RPGs need to have equal amount of every RPG element. The focus can vary.
MicoSelva said:
lisac2k said:
Lyric Suite
Converting to Islam
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
- Messages
- 56,635
MisterStone said:
The cybernetic implants pushed his nigger brain beyond the capacity of mere mortals.
If you can see your hands, it's an RPG. If one or both of your hands are below the table, it's OMG NEXT GEN AWESOMENESS!
Sceptic said:... both?
Oh right, you massage your dick with the Xbox controller while Black Ops plays itself
phelot said:commie said:
Err, yeah...crude I know.
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