Hearts of Iron IV - The Ultimate WWII Strategy Game

[GarfunkeL]

Not happy about this counter thing. Traditional counters are gone. You don't even get them when you zoom out. It is just the 3d model goes away and you are left with the quasi-counter that is at the base of the 3d models.

You can replace the home-brewn counters with symbols on them by NATO counters, that was Podcat's big concession to grognards.

I saw that but it isn't the symbol I care about, although I do think NATO symbols are more distinctive and better at conveying information about the unit, it is all the other information that is on the counters that I care about. And the counters Paradox is making are small and convey little information. Even if they change them around they really can't slap much more information on them because they are normally at the base of a 3d model and as a result they have only a fraction of the space an actual counter does to put information on.

Oh right, I misunderstood you. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

 

[Average Manatee]

I just tried to play HoI3 without counters. Holy shit its confusing as hell, and I'm just playing France and sitting still. I can't imagine playing the Soviets, or playing any nation that fights on multiple fronts. And it's even worse if you combine it with no political map mode. Paradox might think they are making the game more accessible but I think new players will just be more confused. I know I was confused as fuck when I played my first paradox game (EU3) and didn't know that you had to turn on political map mode to see what the fuck was going on.

More and more I feel that the intent is for HoI4 to be played with the AI controlling most of the game and with you passively watching and merely having the choice between building slightly different units each game.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Yeah it's definitely looking that way. Personally I think Paradox has made the wrong conclusions from what people bitched about regarding HoI3 but what do I know. It might be their pursue of wider audience as well.

 

[Luka-boy]

I guess I'll have to keep playing Arsenal of Democracy for at least five more years.

 

[codexian reject]

More and more I feel that the intent is for HoI4 to be played with the AI controlling most of the game and with you passively watching and merely having the choice between building slightly different units each game.

Basically majority of discussion, by gamers who actually put an effort into analyzing gameplay rules, is about why the games don't make much sense.
After over 10 years, I have no doubt that they don't really even try and what is quted above is by design.
Paradox games are little more, than glorified larping platforms, a TES of strategy games. This is why they've become so popular probably.

 

[Chef_Hathaway]

I guess I'll have to keep playing Arsenal of Democracy for at least five more years.

I really wish it hadn't gotten borked in multi.

 

[DrowningHarvey]

Lack of proper counters (wonder if when they'll make them DLC or a part of addon?) sounds like a perfect way of turning major fronts in to a horrible mess of riverdancing 3D models. Hearts of Iron 3 already had too much useless eye candy that added nothing of value the actual game, but at least it was mostly optional.

 

[GarfunkeL]

But you cannot play a strategy game unless the mountains rise realistically towards the edge of your monitor, like throbbing dicks! It's just impossible! I bet the sea provinces have waves going around because that's just what a strategy game needs - more fucking useless eye candy.

EDIT: wrote a little rant. Let's see if I get banned:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...8-Urgent-and-important-things-that-HoI4-needs

 

[Average Manatee]

The mountains particularly annoy me. They are exaggerated to the point where satellites would be smashing into the Alps. It feels like the map was designed for people who don't know that the Alps exist and need that explained to them, as you say, like throbbing dicks on the screen.

But you cannot play a strategy game unless the mountains rise realistically towards the edge of your monitor, like throbbing dicks! It's just impossible! I bet the sea provinces have waves going around because that's just what a strategy game needs - more fucking useless eye candy.

EDIT: wrote a little rant. Let's see if I get banned:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...8-Urgent-and-important-things-that-HoI4-needs

A few of those are pretty cool

You done good Garfunkel

 

[GarfunkeL]

This post seems sarcastic and bitter tbh.

We have a very smart person here.

EDIT: no more province names aside from major cities. Fuckin fantastic.

 

[Raghar]

EDIT: wrote a little rant. Let's see if I get banned:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...8-Urgent-and-important-things-that-HoI4-needs

Do you understand what would happen right? They would take your post literally and even strengthen all features you are glorifying in your post.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Maybe they will credit me? I haven't been in the credits of a Paradox game since HoI2.

 

[Krash]

This post seems sarcastic and bitter tbh.

We have a very smart person here.

EDIT: no more province names aside from major cities. Fuckin fantastic.

You still see it when you select the province?

 

[Raghar]

Maybe they will credit me? I haven't been in the credits of a Paradox game since HoI2.

Do you really want it? You'd be known as that maggot who proposed "Just put some beautiful ponies and horses in there, perhaps with the possibility of braiding them", thus caused delay on working supply model and caused animal protection lawsuit.

 

[Spectacle]

The map really is a step backwards from hoi3. I guess making pretty screenshots for reviews is more important than a functional map that pleases the fans who will buy the game anyway.

 

[Grinolf]

Paradox was obsessed with pushing terrain mapmode for quite a while. And with people continuing to ignore it, they seem to become pretty desperate. As if it was to kust accept, that terrain mapmode in these kind of games isn't useful for anyone with at least basic knowledge of geography.

 

[GarfunkeL]

http://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive/b/590837590

There's that stream that they were advertising, focusing on the map. Counters look like shit, big surprise, though the combining thing is helpful for taking in an overview. Map looks gorgeous but I know I will get annoyed with the sun/moon effects that have been painted on the textures and when playing any naval power, the supply/resource convoy lines will end up cluttering the map, though Podcat said that they can be turned off.

 

[Norfleet]

It's sort of hard NOT to have a basic knowledge of geography when you play these kinds of games, though. The main reason for widespread geographical ignorance is not playing enough wargames.

 

[CaptainCoxwaggle]

So Podcat just nailed the last nail on this coffin with the latest DevDiary.

HoI4 will force you to use 3D sprites for units. Because it uses a fully contoured 3D map and the artists have worked very hard to create realistic looking soldiers and tanks. Oh and there is no simplified terrain map mode and the detailed terrain map and the political map and the weather map have been merged and the day/night cycle will show on the main map, not on the minimap. Cities will light up during the night (which is kinda silly in WW2 context but hey looks PRETTY) and there will be blizzards and sand storms and rain right there on the map.

You CAN have counters but only when zoomed out enough so that the terrain map "seamlessly" changes into political map. Podcat also assured that no amount of begging will change this because there are only 3 programmers working on HoI4 and creating a 2D-map mode is a waste of time and resources. He will not allow counters to be used when zoomed-in because they would clip with the mountains and hills.

So there you have it, straight from the horses mouth. Paradox went full retard just like Creative Assembly did with Total War. Because - and he actually wrote this out - having a pretty map is critical for selling a game and he "wants to keep making games instead of starving on the street". I cannot even fathom how stupid he has to be make such an statement. Has someone ever went: "oh, I really want to play a grand strategy game but this just looks so ugly, I'll pass"? No, because Pdox games have always already been the prettiest whores on the street to begin with.

Well they just lost a day one customer (I even bought Sengoku and March of the Eagles without complaint). I refuse to use sprites because no matter how you dress it, it looks fucking silly to be playing a strategic wargame encompassing the entirety of the world with divisions of ten thousand men being the smallest piece and watching looping "combat" animations that in no way represent anything. With counters I know at the glance the type of division, the number of divisions, and what the fuck they are doing and how strong they are at a glance.

Shame, from the Dev reports the game looked to be shaping up nicely. But now they'll have to tear my shekels away with a discount.

 

[cw8]

What about unit movement? Can I still move each and every unit individually like I could in HOI 3 or do I have to use the glaring arrows?

 

[GarfunkeL]

Uncertain. They have only showed the RTS-style battle plans. But there is no OOB, that's guaranteed, so even if manual handling is in, it means giving orders to each individual division on its own. If they stick to the same amount of units that major powers had in HoI3, that's going to get impossible really fucking quickly.

 

[sser]

Fucking Christ that is a good looking map. Shame about the rest of the game, though.

 

[Average Manatee]

Apparently you can still move units individually but you get some kind of combat bonus if you use the "plan" mode where they AI takes control and you just draw shit on the map.

 

[cw8]

Good to know there's still manual movement but sucks that there's no OOB. I can handle playing the USA moving units manually but the Eastern Front would be quite ridiculous.

 

[Destroid]

Apparently you can still move units individually but you get some kind of combat bonus if you use the "plan" mode where they AI takes control and you just draw shit on the map.

I guess that's to compensate for the AI being derp with your units.