Hearts of Iron IV - The Ultimate WWII Strategy Game

[Kane]

Addentum, it will require three patches before becoming playable.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Addentum, it will require three patches before becoming playable.

But but but


it's a Paradox game!

 

[Raghar]

But but but


it's a Paradox game!

You got a point. It would require five patches (or two expansions) before becoming playable.

But I look forward towards the era after these two expansions, few years later.

 

[baturinsky]

I thought patches fix game, DLCs break, no?

 

[Raghar]

Expansions also include the latest working patch for the previous version of the game.

Also... Patches fix game? Paradox?

Bwuahahahaahaha.

 

[cw8]

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Seems Manchukuo is now actually a part of Japan from get-go. Not really a bad idea, the AI had problems with handling that, and Manchukuo in itself was not really any different from Korea in terms of Japanese rule.

 

[Average Manatee]

Manchukuo being a puppet was a very good way to force Japan to garrison the border, as historically the whole Japan-Soviet front was basically an undeclared warzone ready to flare up at any moment. Also fuck united china. Serious WTF Paradox? Are they seriously sucking the PRC's cock to get this past the censors?

 

[sser]

Manchukuo being a puppet was a very good way to force Japan to garrison the border, as historically the whole Japan-Soviet front was basically an undeclared warzone ready to flare up at any moment. Also fuck united china. Serious WTF Paradox? Are they seriously sucking the PRC's cock to get this past the censors?

United China? Where are you seeing that?

 

[Average Manatee]

United China? Where are you seeing that?

4:10 in the video.

Paradox have said that the east is still a WIP, but they keep showing off the damn game like this so I can only assume that the current borders will stay.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

In general, HoI needs more country tags (even unreleased ones), and given the present list of features I'd expect to see more potential nations since there's just no way they aren't planning a Cold War expansion DLC.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Well, the politics dev diary had some interesting bits and some not so interesting bits. Still annoyed that it's Steam only and still annoyed that OOB/CoC is gone but at least they promised to revise their original idea of removing transport planes. I fucking hate this plan of removing micro and moving towards a more "strategic" level that just oozes out of everything in HoI4 but oh well.

For example, there hasn't been any mention of whether they would update the combat engine or if it's going to be the exact same silly slugging fest that was originally created for HoI1. Which was an acceptable abstraction for a game that tracked individual divisions but does not work well with a game that tracks individual battalions. They should take some of the stuff from CK2 combat model and implement them to HoI4, that already would improve it a bit - ie phases: recon phase, artillery duels, assault phase, delay/chase phase. Have divisional leader skill affect how many battalions of his division manage to take part in each phase and we have just justified their existence, plus it would bring a better reason for different battalions. Your division has a miserably recon rating since it lacks dedicated recon assets? The enemy will win the recon phase leading to increased number of ambushes and surprise attacks. Which is the reason the German Panzer divisions had both an armoured car battalion and a motorcycle battalion - to have plenty of recon power.

But nah, combat events won't probably make it to vanilla HoI4 and instead of phases we'll just have the divisions lined up against other and taking turns throwing their soft attack against toughness, with a small "combined arms" bonus if the division passes certain arbitrary requirements.

 

[CaptainCoxwaggle]

Manchukuo was a fairly independent colony with the legitimate Manchu monarch at its helm, comparable to British India at least, whereas Korea was an outright annexed state that was undergoing slow but steady cultural assimilation. However economically Manchukuo was dominated by Japanese interests which is poorly reflected by having it as a puppet state. Militarily it would make sense to have the Japanese Kwangtung army stationed there in preparation of a possible Russian invasion, but it would again be difficult to differentiate between Kwangtung army and Manchurian army units, and it would be even harder to simulate the steady drain of Kwangtung army resources and divisions into the Chinese and Home front. In terms of gameplay it would be for the best to have it annexed, and possibly have low quality colonial units to simulate Manchu and Mongolian battalions.

 

[cw8]

Manchukuo being a puppet was a very good way to force Japan to garrison the border, as historically the whole Japan-Soviet front was basically an undeclared warzone ready to flare up at any moment. Also fuck united china. Serious WTF Paradox? Are they seriously sucking the PRC's cock to get this past the censors?

I posted a question on their previous Youtube video, they said China and the east are still WIP (2nd comment)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOWrZqlsJBw

EDIT: Saw your 2nd reply, ignore.
They delayed the game's release though, might be a good sign that they might continue working on the east.

 

[Average Manatee]

I posted a question on their previous Youtube video, they said China and the east are still WIP (2nd comment)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOWrZqlsJBw

EDIT: Saw your 2nd reply, ignore.
They delayed the game's release though, might be a good sign that they might continue working on the east.

Yeah, it's like showing a map off with Poland not existing and already annexed by the Soviet Union and Hitler in 1836, and explaining it away by being a "WIP". Then showing off the same map again, a whole year later and only a matter of months before release. I can't imagine why anyone would do something like that, it makes Paradox look so dumb if they do intend to eventually fix it. Shouldn't sketching out a working map be literally the first thing you do in development? The only reasonable explanation I can think of is that Paradox don't want to fix China and are trying to duck the issue.

For example, there hasn't been any mention of whether they would update the combat engine or if it's going to be the exact same silly slugging fest that was originally created for HoI1. Which was an acceptable abstraction for a game that tracked individual divisions but does not work well with a game that tracks individual battalions. They should take some of the stuff from CK2 combat model and implement them to HoI4, that already would improve it a bit - ie phases: recon phase, artillery duels, assault phase, delay/chase phase. Have divisional leader skill affect how many battalions of his division manage to take part in each phase and we have just justified their existence, plus it would bring a better reason for different battalions. Your division has a miserably recon rating since it lacks dedicated recon assets? The enemy will win the recon phase leading to increased number of ambushes and surprise attacks. Which is the reason the German Panzer divisions had both an armoured car battalion and a motorcycle battalion - to have plenty of recon power.

But nah, combat events won't probably make it to vanilla HoI4 and instead of phases we'll just have the divisions lined up against other and taking turns throwing their soft attack against toughness, with a small "combined arms" bonus if the division passes certain arbitrary requirements.

TBH the CK2 system is an incoherent mess with tons of balance problems and players being completely left in the dark about what a good composition is without hours of file-digging. Eventually 99% of players don't know shit other than "biggest numbers usually win", and the AI doesn't know much better. This kind of detail isn't suited for a RTwP game IMO. It's barely acceptable in CK2 only because players are using a single doomstack, in HoI3/4 with players engaged in dozens of battles across a front it would be ridiculous (though with HoI4 it looks like the AI will be doing the battles, lol).

That said, I think you could fudge something like this into HoI3 (minus the phase thing). Normally all divisions that attack at the same time or start defending are automatically fighting. Instead, you could lower the base frontage a lot on day one and increase it through combat events, which would lead to only a single division being in combat initially and the others forced to reinforce later over time. IIRC Corps leaders already improve reinforce chance, I think you could add a brigade that improves it as well and call it recon.

 

[Makabb]

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

This looks absolutely and completely horrible compared to HoI II Darkest Day map.

 

[cw8]

Livestream gameplay with Paradox devs, gameplay starts after 6:55.

 

[Brzęczyszczykiewicz]

And I thought HOI 3 map was ugly.

 

[Jugashvili]

They better have NATO counters. How else is Mrs. J supposed to chide me for playing the envelope game.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Battle exercises are actually potentially pretty interesting as a mechanic.

 

[Spectacle]

Battle exercises are actually potentially pretty interesting as a mechanic.

Ideally it involves some hard choices about whether you prioritize war material for exercises, new units or resupplying the front.

Worst case is that you have you click though each of your divisions individually every week and select "exercise" while waiting for the war to start.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Oh god, I see what you mean. Let us pray for a toggle button.

 

[Average Manatee]

That pushups thing looks so fucking dumb. Every time I see a screenshot with a unit model in Paradox games nowadays I immediately get angry, because I know they want to push their model DLC as much as possible rather than make a UI that cleanly informs the player of what they need to know.

Otherwise I agree with a lot of Darkpatriot's thoughts. Even when Paradox is talking about a lot of features I completely agree with, I can't shake the feeling that the core of HoI4 is just going to be rotten and designed for the casual/youtube crowd who want to literally map paint. All these good things are just peripheral features, we've still not seen a single "real game" being played. I can't tell whether that is because Paradox is afraid of scaring away new players by showing a single in-depth game, or because Paradox is afraid of revealing to HoI2/3 players that HoI4 has no depth.

 

[Sranchammer]

What is the point of having animated models in these games, anyways?