KickStarter Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Dan Vavra's medieval chad simulator

[AwesomeButton]

Like ironman modes, it leads to either extremely cautious behavior or to cheese strategies.

But even the normal mode is so strict that many players are already cheesing through it as well.

 

[Harthwain]

People should learn to let go and roll with it. Part of enjoying roguelikes is accepting what has happened and moving on.

 

[Fedora Master]

People should learn to let go and roll with it. Part of enjoying roguelikes is accepting what has happened and moving on.

I do. I failed to put on a proper sermon for Godwin and now I have the pleasure of riding to THE OTHER SIDE OF THE MAP to continue the goddamn quest.

 

[cvv]

Like ironman modes, it leads to either extremely cautious behavior or to cheese strategies.

But even the normal mode is so strict that many players are already cheesing through it as well.

Are they? What is even there to cheese? It's not like this game is goddamn Sekiro. If you spar with Bernard for like 15 mins and learn the ropes you proceed to smash everything in your way (provided you don't blindly bumrush a group of 5+ bandits or some such).

This game is not that hard. The difficulty of Hardcore isn't in combat but mainly in orientation. If you get lost in the woods and night falls ur p. much fucked.

 

[Fedora Master]

That reminds me: Hardcore removes almost all UI elements but leaves the stupid compass... Without cardinal directions. Makes no fucking sense

 

[xuerebx]

People should learn to let go and roll with it. Part of enjoying roguelikes is accepting what has happened and moving on.

I do. I failed to put on a proper sermon for Godwin and now I have the pleasure of riding to THE OTHER SIDE OF THE MAP to continue the goddamn quest.

I too failed on that quest, and thought it was pretty cool that SUCH A LONG quest can still be solved using other means.

Which reminds me, that was a great quest - certainly memorable - and yet if you start dissecting it there really isn't anything special or out of the ordinary with it. Or maybe it's just me.

 

[Fedora Master]

It does raise the question: Can I find those idiots without Godwin/the Black Chronicle or is the game reliant on quest steps?

 

[cvv]

It does raise the question: Can I find those idiots without Godwin/the Black Chronicle or is the game reliant on quest steps?

You mean the heretics? No, you don't need the clues. I didn't understand a single word in that damn book so I just ran around Uzhitz for a while and eventually found the spot.

 

[Fedora Master]

It does raise the question: Can I find those idiots without Godwin/the Black Chronicle or is the game reliant on quest steps?

You mean the heretics? No, you don't need the clues. I didn't understand a single word in that damn book so I just ran around Uzhitz for a while and eventually found the spot.

I meant the main quest looking for Reeky.

 

[Wunderbar]

You can randomly stumble upon counterfeiters without going through the whole investigation with Ulrich, so i guess same applies here.

 

[Gerrard]

KCD has heart. It has soul. If KCD sang the Blues, you'd want to listen.

It's a (very) flawed gem but a gem nonetheless. It's got likeable characters and a setting that'll make any decent person feel right at home. It's also more ambitious than one might think and does some very cool things that you won't see in any AAA action RPG. Even with all of its rough edges it's a beautiful thing to behold in these dark times.

I initially purchased it used at a Gamestop. After playing for twenty or so hours, I returned the used version for an exchange and purchased a brand new “Kingdom Come” game disc so the sale would register. Gotta support new efforts with such vision as much as possible.

Considering Vavra's recent tweets all you're supporting is decline.

 

[Xeon]

Only thing I thought was iffy about his tweets is him praising the sex scenes in CP77, I really hope he doesn't do something similar in the sequel and just keep it fade it to black or something iirc.

 

[Jrpgfan]

People should learn to let go and roll with it. Part of enjoying roguelikes is accepting what has happened and moving on.

KCD is not a roguelike and people should play games any way they like. Telling others how they should have fun is stupid.

 

[cvv]

It does raise the question: Can I find those idiots without Godwin/the Black Chronicle or is the game reliant on quest steps?

You mean the heretics? No, you don't need the clues. I didn't understand a single word in that damn book so I just ran around Uzhitz for a while and eventually found the spot.

I meant the main quest looking for Reeky.

You can find Reeky's hideout by randomly exploring but he will be there only after you talk with Godwin (you can skip the entire Godwin shenanigans by passing a Charisma check with him). That way you don't have to go to investigate in Ledetchko and go straight to him. But that's only useful for your 2nd playthrough, on your first you don't know where Reeky is.

 

[xuerebx]

KCD has heart. It has soul. If KCD sang the Blues, you'd want to listen.

It's a (very) flawed gem but a gem nonetheless. It's got likeable characters and a setting that'll make any decent person feel right at home. It's also more ambitious than one might think and does some very cool things that you won't see in any AAA action RPG. Even with all of its rough edges it's a beautiful thing to behold in these dark times.

I initially purchased it used at a Gamestop. After playing for twenty or so hours, I returned the used version for an exchange and purchased a brand new “Kingdom Come” game disc so the sale would register. Gotta support new efforts with such vision as much as possible.

Considering Vavra's recent tweets all you're supporting is decline.

What did he post then?

 

[Harthwain]

KCD is not a roguelike and people should play games any way they like. Telling others how they should have fun is stupid.

It's not a roguelike, but the way its systems are set up was done for a reason. If you always reload when something "bad" happens, will you ever experience the fun of trying to pull yourself out of a bad situation? Or what may happen as a result of your "failure"? And is the constant reloading to have a "perfect record" truly an enjoyable experience? Or a huge, unenjoyable waste of time? Ultimately I don't really care if somebody uses cheats and such in his singleplayer game, so... Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Gerrard]

KCD has heart. It has soul. If KCD sang the Blues, you'd want to listen.

It's a (very) flawed gem but a gem nonetheless. It's got likeable characters and a setting that'll make any decent person feel right at home. It's also more ambitious than one might think and does some very cool things that you won't see in any AAA action RPG. Even with all of its rough edges it's a beautiful thing to behold in these dark times.

I initially purchased it used at a Gamestop. After playing for twenty or so hours, I returned the used version for an exchange and purchased a brand new “Kingdom Come” game disc so the sale would register. Gotta support new efforts with such vision as much as possible.

Considering Vavra's recent tweets all you're supporting is decline.

What did he post then?

 

[cvv]

KCD is not a roguelike and people should play games any way they like. Telling others how they should have fun is stupid.

It's not a roguelike, but the way its systems are set up was done for a reason. If you always reload when something "bad" happens, will you ever experience the fun of trying to pull yourself out of a bad situation?

Exactly this. Plus it's not just the limited saves, there are more systems supporting the whole idea of not saving/reloading constantly. Most quest don't really have a "bad" or "good" solution, just shorter or longer ones.

But the longer ones are often WAY more fun. Godwin's quest is probably the best example - you can learn about Reeky immediately if you pass a Charisma check. If you fail you have to go through a quest that is lengthy but also one of the most entertaining in the game. So failing the check is actually by far the preferred option here.

Btw it's funny seeing people complaining about "playing muh game any way I want" in relation with KCD of all games. I've rarely see a game that gives you more freedom in how you approach the gameplay than KCD.

 

[Jrpgfan]

KCD is not a roguelike and people should play games any way they like. Telling others how they should have fun is stupid.

It's not a roguelike, but the way its systems are set up was done for a reason. If you always reload when something "bad" happens, will you ever experience the fun of trying to pull yourself out of a bad situation? Or what may happen as a result of your "failure"? And is the constant reloading to have a "perfect record" truly an enjoyable experience? Or a huge, unenjoyable waste of time? Ultimately I don't really care if somebody uses cheats and such in his singleplayer game, so... Whatever floats your boat.

What makes you assume every person is gonna reload after something "bad" happens? If you would, it's on you, not the game. And again, if someone does it, and has fun, I don't see the problem. I can't stress enough how fucking childish it is to demand people play a game the way you deem the correct one. It's a fucking videogame ffs. Grow the fuck up.

Also, it's quite contradictory limiting the saves if mosts quests have no "bad" or "good" solution. This argument isn't really in favor of what you're trying to advocate here.

And just a reminder that this game at launch was a bugfest with long ass cutscenes. Thank god I've played after it's been patched up and all DLCs were released.

 

[xuerebx]

<snip>

Well, I'll only confirm or otherwise in about 5 years when the game is heavily discounted at like €20, as I do with all games :D

 

[Harthwain]

I can't stress enough how fucking childish it is to demand people play a game the way you deem the correct one. It's a fucking videogame ffs. Grow the fuck up.

You seem upset, my child. Why so serious?

 

[Bad Sector]

It's an interesting take in my opinion. You have the option to save at any point, but with a drawback so it doesn't render limited saving pointless. And limited saving has an impact, because you are more willing to carry on with negative consequences of your actions if the alternative is loading a save that's an hour (or more) earlier.

If you always reload when something "bad" happens, will you ever experience the fun of trying to pull yourself out of a bad situation? Or what may happen as a result of your "failure"?

The thing is, yes, i understand the intention behind this choice - however i do not agree with it (for reasons already mentioned). I wrote that this isn't good design (IMO) and what you mention here is such an example: the important "bad" stuff shouldn't be something that happens *immediately* after you take an action so that you can simply reload to avoid it. As i wrote in a previous post where i went into detail, the game shouldn't rely on the saving system for that: consequences shouldn't be so cheap that they rely on a single action you just made but instead have some weight and rely on an accumulation of choices you've already made earlier. They shouldn't be like dialog choices that you can save and then try each one to see what happens and then reload until you've exhausted the dialog tree. *That* is the root of the problem and limiting the save system is a band-aid when the real solution is to not have such cheap consequences.

Ideally your choices will feel natural for your character and play up to each choice and the consequences shouldn't even feel consequences but the natural flow of things - you shouldn't even know there was a choice or a consequence and hence you wont even think about reloading (...and reloading to where? If there isn't a single reason that causes the consequence and if the reasons for it happen much earlier then it becomes way more unlikely for someone to rely on the savesystem to alter the game's difficulty without actually breaking the savesystem itself). Of course that is an ideal (IMO) and has the danger of people thinking that a game is overly linear unless they play the game with an (actual) different character (that has different stats, acts differently, etc), but i think that this is the better goal to have design-wise.

And is the constant reloading to have a "perfect record" truly an enjoyable experience?

There are many people who find that enjoyable. Though i think it is much more common in games which telegraph the outcome of each action (see Bioware's paragon/renegade stuff as a very obvious example).

 

[cvv]

consequences shouldn't be so cheap that they rely on a single action you just made but instead have some weight and rely on an accumulation of choices you've already made earlier. They shouldn't be like dialog choices that you can save and then try each one to see what happens and then reload until you've exhausted the dialog tree.

I agree with that but in KCD most consequences DO have weight and often they do build on your previous actions. You're barking at the wrong tree here, for the most part.

Plus all this debate about "limited save system" is really overblown because KCD is not exactly Dark Souls, you CAN save whenever you want. The only limit is that you can't SPAM quicksave like a retard every 2 minutes. (Hell you can do even that if you're willing to put in the work, brew the necessary amount of potions and know how to deal with the drunken consequences, which isn't THAT hard either).

So let's not pretend the schnapps system is terribly cruel or arduous in any way.

 

[TheImplodingVoice]

consequences shouldn't be so cheap that they rely on a single action you just made but instead have some weight and rely on an accumulation of choices you've already made earlier. They shouldn't be like dialog choices that you can save and then try each one to see what happens and then reload until you've exhausted the dialog tree.

I agree with that but in KCD most consequences DO have weight and often they do build on your previous actions. You're barking at the wrong tree here, for the most part.

Plus all this debate about "limited save system" is really overblown because KCD is not exactly Dark Souls, you CAN save whenever you want. The only limit is that you can't SPAM quicksave like a retard every 2 minutes. (Hell you can do even that if you're willing to put in the work, brew the necessary amount of potions and know how to deal with the drunken consequences, which isn't THAT hard either).

So let's not pretend the schnapps system is terribly cruel or arduous in any way.

I had so much saviour schnapps that I could drink Henry into an early grave. Getting saviour scnapps is a lot easier than most make it out to be

 

[Fedora Master]

As I keep saying, it's not the Schnaps, it's the rest of the game not really being Hardcore at all. They tacked the mode on to appeal to certain people without the necessary changes to make it work properly. Like Skyrim.