D&D 5E Discussion

[Reinhardt]

I want easy and awesome but i want it to be called hard!

 

[Bara]

Nope. You start in the level that the DM says to start.

I dont disagree with that statement but going out of your way to avoid even trying the game from lvl 1 before trying it in actual play your doing yourself a dis-service as you may come to enjoy it.

Those tense moments really give you perspective on how much your character has grown.

Or at the very least if you so dislike the early levels when you start future games at higher levels you'll have a sense of the type of hardships your character got through to even reach that point.

 

[Snorkack]

Don't think he's interested in tense moments, but in playing the system where the mage has the biggest awesum button. That this happens to be the case in an oldschool dnd version is barely relevant it seems.

 

[Cryomancer]

Low level D&D is not "hard", is just TOO boring. And it applies to games with no magic. Fallout New Vegas is far more interesting when you have a .45-70 Brush gun, a anti materiel rifle with explosive rounds and so on, than when you have a "rusty" bolt action improvised 556 rifle and a 9mm "bootleg" SMG that can't fire a single "clip" without jamming, the game is awful.

And note that lv 4 is extremely low level IMO. My character only has 9 hit points.

You want instant gratification and easy you want 5e sword coast , not mystara.

Nope. If I wanted 5e sword coast, I would have found a gorup long time ago.

I want easy and awesome but i want it to be called hard!

Nope. I would lie and say that I enjoy starting as a level zero manlet, since that is what is considered "hardcore" here.

but in playing the system where the mage has the biggest awesum button.

Not truth. Spellcasting in PF1e is extremely more powerful than on 2e and OSR games.

• You can get spells by leveling up without needing to find scrolls, if you only has access to awful spells on 2e, deal with it.
• D6 hit points instead of D4 and getting high CON mod is easy. When I played 3e, my lv 5 character(we started at lv 5) had almost 40 HP. Now my char has 9 at lv 4. At lv 5 he will have 10~13 hp.
• You don't need more XP to level up. Magic users on OSR games require way more XP to level up than other classes.
• A lot of incredible powerful spells doesn't exists on S&W.

If I wanted only to play as a powerful mage, I would have tried to find a Pathfinder 1e group. Also, there are a lot of AP and modules for higher level on PF1e but not for S&W, so encounter a group which allow me to skip this earlier levels would be far easier.

 

[Gyor]

https://media.wizards.com/2021/downloads/Unearthed-Arcana-2021-Draconic-Options.pdf

There are 3 Dragonborn race variants (Chromatic, Metallic, and Gem), variant Kobold race, Dragon feats (Chromatic, Metallic, Gem) and Draconic spells (all the named spells are from Forgotten Realms lore, a White dragon Drizzt killed, a FR Gem Dragon, and a God of Fey/Small Dragons). Also the Ruby Dragon/Deity of Gem Dragons is mentioned Saridor from FR. The only none FR reference is Fizban from Dragonlance (keep out an eye for a Fizban Planeswalker card in the AFR MtG set if it even has Planeswalkers).

 

[Cryomancer]

I just don't know what is more retarded.

• WoTC with wheelchair "dungeons" which makes no sense in a high fantasy world.
• You must play the game the way that we want, feeling worthless for long months before you can get fun, otherwise you wanna a "awesome button"

IMO the greatest strength of the RPG genre is the escapism. I already have a lot of hardships IRL. I wanna play RPG to escape it.

"But you enjoy Dark Sun"

Dark Sun is a extremely harsh world, but at least doesn't have equality cultists. It still a good escapist fantasy.

I wanna play a RPG to pretend and be for few moments, a powerful mage in Glantri where I have power, I can do cool things, use cool spells to solve problems completely unrelated to IRL, or pick a shooter or a plane game like Warthunder and have fun. Many people get drunk to escape the harsh reality or do drugs. I play RPG's. Only on 2016, I got cancer, lost a gorgeous naturally blonde girlfriend in a country where it is very rare. Lost a chance to escape a country which I hate due "diversity hiring", failed at the university due a lot of health problems, and only now an completing my studies, all of my years of dedication in the gym in becoming ripped was wasted and now I an overweight due some diseases + lockdowns + mandatory masks. Everything in my life is hardship and frustration already. I keep trying and keep failing and in a hobby, where I wanna escape the reality, instead of getting fun and getting immersed in another world, with another challenges, I should spend months playing in a way that I don't like to maybe, I repeat maybe get fun after months?

Same with some anime. Redo of the Realer, is a good show? No in objective therms. But in revenge power fantasy, for those who fells wronged, it can have a appeal. And spoiler : I can like a thing an realize that it is not great.

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For harsher settings with less "awesome button", why not look into call of the cthulhu RPG's? No "awesome buttons";

• You can't play as a "d&d style mid/high level wizard". Your character is very human.
• Magic? It is a alien thing which leads our brain into insanity. No wizard towers where wizards rule like local Barons and do magical research, magicians are crazy cultists and NPC's only.
• Firearms? Not much "awesome" firearms either. The investigators would probably have a .38 special revolver and that is it.
• Healing? It is slow and painful. No divine magic reviving the dead.

You guys who complain about "awesome button" should look into games like The Call of Cthulhu. But D&D is high fantasy "mundane" magic style fantasy.

 

[Bara]

reference is Fizban from Dragonlance

Probably going to release a dracnomicon book rathercthan dragonlance since it talks about multiple settings dragons. Did gem dragons even exist in dragonlance?

You must play the game the way that we want, feeling worthless for long months before you can get fun, otherwise you wanna a "awesome button"

Oh trust me when you really get into it you feel like cunning bastards rather than worthless wretches when surviving at low level and it makes mid to high level gameplay all the more rewarding.

 

[Mortmal]

I just don't know what is more retarded.

• WoTC with wheelchair "dungeons" which makes no sense in a high fantasy world.
• You must play the game the way that we want, feeling worthless for long months before you can get fun, otherwise you wanna a "awesome button"

Wheelchair can make sense, there's clockwork constructs, golems, so someone skilled could make something usefull . Seen more absurd things than that , prosthetic limbs in fantasy is a thing .
As for feeling worthless as a low level mage, you are supposed to roleplay too . Everything is not related to combat, play like an highly intelligent erudite, there's social encounters , out of combat rituals , maybe you are the only one able to read in the party .Then its not going to take months before you get more spells. If your Dm said one level by sessions, it will be quick , if you dont do something stupid and die that is...

 

[Cryomancer]

Wheelchair can make sense

I disagree. D&D is such a high magical setting that paying for a cleric to heal your legs is probably less expensive than the wheelchair.

when surviving at low level

LV 4 is extremely low level IMO. Is not even the half of the required level for a paladin/ranger to cast spells.

 

[Reinhardt]

Person who don't want to study and improve could never become wizard. And you don't want to study, you want to skip "study" part and just get your awesum button. That's why wizard stronghold is useless for you. Sitting in tower and researching some shit is BORING! No advencha, no succubus harem, no orcus slaying, just research new spell.

 

[Cryomancer]

And you don't want to study, you want to skip "study" part and just get your awesum button. That's why wizard stronghold is useless for you. Sitting in tower and researching some shit is BORING! No advencha, no succubus harem, no orcus slaying, just research new spell.

You know that I talk about succubus only as an joke, right? And that Orcus would probably be the last adventure of a really long time playing the game. And the party probably would die without even seeing Orcus. Reaching his abyssal layer is already extremely hard.

Anyway, If the RPG system really wanted to translate the magic user fantasy, he would have something like experience by reading and studding AND paying for tuition, on S&W you gain experience by killing shirt and looting treasure. On 5e only by killing.

The unique game where you really need to hunt books to become a wizard that I remember is Gothic 2 - RETURNING (not the base game). Intelligence in that game is not a stat that can be raised by a trainer, you train it by doing intellectual stuff like alchemy, runemaking, reading, learning new languages and so on and is quite expensive to learn magic. Books are pretty expensive, alchemical recipes too. And after getting the requirements, you need to do the "initiation" which is often a pretty hard quest. Took 14 hours for me to become a necromancer in that game and I honestly loved it. It made appreciate a mere circle 1 spell far more than I would appreciate if I just had "clicked" into a box and become one.

And sadly, instead of making magic users more "like" the class fantasy, 3E decided to let then pick any spell that they want when leveling up. On 2e, if your lv 5 mage wanna fireball, he needs to find a scroll of fireball before he can use, and he can fail at learning how to cast. Now on 5e, he casts magic like a spontaneous caster. Other thing that I don't like is the lack of +con mod cap and the D6 hit dice on newer editions. Magic casters must have d4 hit points. And at best +1 CON mod. They must be fragile.

5E wizards are more akin to PF1e Arcanists than traditional "vancian" magic casters.

 

[Reinhardt]

And that Orcus would probably be the last adventure of a really long time playing the game.

That's exactly what i'm talking about. It's last adventure, but you don't want to play adventures before it because it's not awesum enough.

 

[Nortar]

D&D is such a high magical setting .

Tsk, Victor were not you learning?
D&D is not a setting, it's a ruleset.
A ruleset can be used in different settings. Even low- or non-magical.

One of the best modules I've played in 2E was set in 12th century Europe.
It was about a crusader knight coming home from the Holy Land and passing through Languedoc infested with Cathar heresy.
The knight was DM's NPC and, we - the players - his retinue.
There was a significant dose of misticism and fair share of combat, but no epic liches riding on dragons and exploding shit with 40-diced-nukes;
at yet it was very interesting to play. Like I said - one of the best modules I've ever played.

So back to reading the PHB, Vik.
Until you learn the basics you're restricted to playing level 1 halfling fighters.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Good luck trying to explain to S0rcererV1ct0r why he must start from lvl1.

If he were playing in the Dark Sun campaign setting, the entire party would begin at level 3, ability scores would be generated using methods that result in higher averages than the usual methods, each player would have a "character tree" of 4 characters (though only playing one at a time), and every character would have psionics.

 

[Reinhardt]

level 1 halfling fighters

Gullykin defender. Job perfect for Victor. There is even dungeon full of kobolds. RESPAWNING kobolds.

 

[Larianshill]

Speaking of kobolds, I fucking hate those new kobolds in the UA. Kobolds are supposed to by tiny underdogs, that can and will surprise if you underestimate them. None of this is displayed in the text, they're now a race of tiny magical dragons.
What's the point of being an underdog if you're exactly as strong as everyone else? Are you reallu an underdog?

It's like this was written by furries. I hate how furries appropriated the kobolds.

 

[aleph]

It's like this was written by furries. I hate how furries appropriated the kobolds.

Shouldn't this be scalies instead of furries?

 

[Larianshill]

There's very little difference between the two

 

[Cryomancer]

That's exactly what i'm talking about. It's last adventure, but you don't want to play adventures before it because it's not awesum enough.

Skipping 3 levels and skipping 30 levels are two different things...

A ruleset can be used in different settings. Even low- or non-magical.

One of the best modules I've played in 2E was set in 12th century Europe.
It was about a crusader knight coming home from the Holy Land and passing through Languedoc infested with Cathar heresy.
The knight was DM's NPC and, we - the players - his retinue.
There was a significant dose of misticism and fair share of combat, but no epic liches riding on dragons and exploding shit with 40-diced-nukes;

If you really enjoy historical campaigns, good for you. I play RPG's to escape the reality as I've explained. And I never started on high level. All long running gampaigns that I've played on 3e, I started around lv 3~6. Which are extremely low level. If I would play a historical setting, I would probably play a wild west setting. That has potential to be cool.

The highest level that I ever started a game was a lv 12 Transmuter Preserver Chaotic Good in a one shot Dark Sun campaign(3e) who wanted to develop a spell to transform sand into water and fertile land and avoid using flashy spells cuz since magic is hated and be seen doing magic can mean being lynched or worst. Took as a prisoner and tortured to give intel about the Veiled Alliance, all spells that I was using mainly in populated areas was spells that can be easily masked as a Psionic power. When I used stoneskin to protect a merchant who hired the party in a village outside of a city state, a lot of guards started to ask questions to me and I had to use social skills like Intimidation, Bluff and so on to convince him that I wasn't using magic. We also had a lv 13 Mul Cleric who wanna to end slavery and other interesting character played by other party members.

Since we din't continued the campaign, none of the character accomplished his goals. Obviously the transmuter should only succeed in his goal at end sages of the campaign. Dark Sun lacks Dragons, except by few ones which are humans under a process of a "dark apotheosis" and you will probably never see then even at high levels. No Liches riding dragons even in the highest starting level game that I've played.

Until you learn the basics you're restricted to playing level 1 halfling fighters.

I already learned the rules. And if the DM impose it to me, like it is a type of JRPG, I would just search another group.

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Talking about psionics, there is any official book about psionics on 5e?

Dark Sun

According to some guys here, Dark Sun is a "awesome button" setting, since everyone has psionics. Is not one of the most brutal settings ever.

 

[Reinhardt]

Skipping 3 levels and skipping 30 levels are two different things...

Yeah, skipping 30 levels is more awesum.

 

[Caim]

Lmao imagine playing a TTRPG with levels.



This post was paid for by the Socialist Party.

 

[Cryomancer]

Lmao imagine playing a TTRPG with levels.

GURPS lacks levels and is one of the greatest strengths of the game system. And the best part. People who wanna enjoy no magic, low tech settings play this games instead of going to GURPS technomancer to complain that "hur dur, nerf sniper rifle", "hur dur, nerf magic", "hur dur, awesome button on every game that I don't like" and so on.

I never found a GURPS group...

Yeah, skipping 30 levels is more awesum.

Nope. A CRPG Kingmaker starts to become interesting on chapter 2 and is interesting till the end. Same with TT games. If I ever play the Kingmaker AP, not the CRPG adaptation, I would wanna to start on the second book. There is a huge difference between dealing with mysterious fire immune trolls and dealing with the lantern king.

 

[Mortmal]

Just back from the 5e discord...Oh my it's a lot worse than what you are thinking, discussing about dragonlace is banned, and there's a few sjw fanatics raging at race issues with gully dwarves. It's pretty much a sjw dictatorship now.

 

[Cryomancer]

It's pretty much a sjw dictatorship now.

Praise Mystra, we don't have Dark Sun for 5e. And is not the lack of rules for psionics and overall mechanics of 5e who make it impossible. Searched on reddit about Dark Sun 5e and one of the results :

Imagine being in a group in a guy who believe that D&D is all about "diverse heroes fighting evil fascists"... If you search the book "Defilers and Preservers: The Wizards of Athas (2e)" on drivetrurpg :

We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end. source : https://www.drivethrurpg.com/produc...s-The-Wizards-of-Athas-2e?filters=0_0_100_0_0

WoTC needs to lose the spotlight as the most famous and popular TT game dev. I don't care if WoD, Paizo, or Wathever replaces then. Why?

"orcs and drow being two of the prime examples—have been characterized as monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world ethnic groups have been and continue to be denigrated" https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/k29f99/orcs_drow_are_racist/

 

[Reinhardt]

Not that far from "role playing games are all about epic level wizards, anyone who disagrees is manlet kobold slayer"