Metroidvanias and RPGs - different genres, similar "game feel"

[Abu Antar]

I will shamelessly plug my CRPG Book piece about the game in here. (I feel dirty, but also not.) With that said, I did like their Dishwasher series.

 

[Contagium]

How can one get a copy of your book?

I will shamelessly plug my CRPG Book piece about the game in here. (I feel dirty, but also not.) With that said, I did like their Dishwasher series.

 

[Abu Antar]

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/the-expanded-crpg-book-is-out.141883/
Contagium Book is not mine. Project is lead by felipepepe with many different contributors. There was an older version that was printed, but there is an expanded digital version with added stuff. In the future, that will also get a physical release.

 

[Darth Canoli]

The term "Doom clone" was in fact the common term for first-person shooters until the late 1990s.

Are you seriously comparing the impact of Doom on the game industry with metroid one?

Sure you can.
Edit: Ok briefly watched a YT video and in what way is GnG a Metroidvania? It is a bogstandard sidescrolling platformer with no exploration or permanent powerups. It is closer to Mario than Metroid.

I'm not sure I agree to this but I can't say I'm a metroid expert, not even a fan actually So, no, G&G isn't like mario at all (medieval knight fighting giant bosses) but you're probably right about GnG not being the same genre as metroid.

 

[JarlFrank]

The term "Doom clone" was in fact the common term for first-person shooters until the late 1990s.

Are you seriously comparing the impact of Doom on the game industry with metroid one?

Your point was that you can't name a genre by a game that didn't invent it.

Wolfenstein 3D was made before Doom, yet early FPS games were referred to as Doom clones, not Wolfenstein clones... despite most of them being on a flat 2D plane with no height levels, like Wolfenstein, while Doom had height levels.

 

[Grauken]

Sure you can.
Edit: Ok briefly watched a YT video and in what way is GnG a Metroidvania? It is a bogstandard sidescrolling platformer with no exploration or permanent powerups. It is closer to Mario than Metroid.

I'm not sure I agree to this but I can't say I'm a metroid expert, not even a fan actually So, no, G&G isn't like mario at all (medieval knight fighting giant bosses) but you're probably right about GnG not being the same genre as metroid.

Metroidvania aren't defined by setting but how the game is structured, usually one interconnected, explorable world with parts of it gated by certain abilities or items you get. So G&G is indeed closer to Mario as it's a level-based 2d action game.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Your point was that you can't name a genre by a game that didn't invent it.

Wolfenstein 3D was made before Doom, yet early FPS games were referred to as Doom clones, not Wolfenstein clones... despite most of them being on a flat 2D plane with no height levels, like Wolfenstein, while Doom had height levels.

My point was one sentence, maybe you can allow me more complex thoughts than this.

Nobody knew about wolfenstein until recently when retro gaming became cool.
Doom, on the other hand is one of these games that made gaming popular and influenced gaming for decades.

Still, I wouldn't be shocked if journos did their job right and called FPS wolfenstein-like or whatever game of the same genre came before.

Metroidvania aren't defined by setting but how the game is structured, usually one interconnected, explorable world with parts of it gated by certain abilities or items you get. So G&G is indeed closer to Mario as it's a level-based 2d action game.

Then again, the first super mario and Ghost'n Goblins were released the same year and in case you never played GnG, giant bosses.
If you need an influence for GnG, I'd say Hunchback but more combat oriented and with giant bosses.

 

[JarlFrank]

Your point was that you can't name a genre by a game that didn't invent it.

Wolfenstein 3D was made before Doom, yet early FPS games were referred to as Doom clones, not Wolfenstein clones... despite most of them being on a flat 2D plane with no height levels, like Wolfenstein, while Doom had height levels.

My point was one sentence, maybe you can allow me more complex thoughts than this.

Nobody knew about wolfenstein until recently when retro gaming became cool.
Doom, on the other hand is one of these games that made gaming popular and influenced gaming for decades.

Still, I wouldn't be shocked if journos did their job right and called FPS wolfenstein-like or whatever game of the same genre came before.

Then what's your problem with Metroidvanias? The gameplay and level design of the genre is heavily influenced by the Metroid series, especially Super Metroid, as well as Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. The combination of both titles (Metroid + Castlevania = Metroidvania) led to the genre moniker.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Nobody knew about wolfenstein until recently when retro gaming became cool.

Wolfenstein 3D was one of the best selling games of its era.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

From the new generation of Metroidvanias the two that hit well for me are Bloodstained and Blasphemous.

Bloodstained may feel very similar to IGAvanias, especially the Aria/Dawn of Souls games due to the systems but if you liked or loved those ones you'll really like this one.

Blasphemous has a very cool aesthetic that delves more into religious horror and disturbing imagery which definitely makes it stand out. Good gameplay and stellar OST. Also has had a shitload of free DLC which adds new modes and stuff. Highly recommended.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

The term "Doom clone" was in fact the common term for first-person shooters until the late 1990s.

Are you seriously comparing the impact of Doom on the game industry with metroid one?

Your point was that you can't name a genre by a game that didn't invent it.

Wolfenstein 3D was made before Doom, yet early FPS games were referred to as Doom clones, not Wolfenstein clones... despite most of them being on a flat 2D plane with no height levels, like Wolfenstein, while Doom had height levels.

As if Metroid and Castlevania were not impactful on the gaming industry... they still name a genre and the term doom-clone is dead nowadays.

Another term that is based on a game to define a genre is the "souls-like". In this case you don't have similar games to the demon's souls/dark souls formula that are exactly copies that came before, but the king's field (which is also from from) and severance blade of darkness had elements that makes the somewhat fit the souls formula. Also, funny thing is darksouls 1 fits in metroidvania genre.

But Ghouls and ghosts series has no metroidvania connection whatsoever. Actually, I don't even know how ghouls entered this thread. It is an arcade platformer with no defining characteristic that would serve as genre name.

 

[JarlFrank]

Back to the topic of recommended metroidvanias: Iji is a free game made by a single dev and it's pretty good.

https://www.remar.se/daniel/iji.php

Has different endings based on how many enemies you kill, and which type of enemies (there's two opposed factions in the game).

 

[curds]

You can't name a genre after a game which didn't create it.
Ghost'n Goblins was released one year earlier and it's far from being the first side-scrolling action game.

But the term Metroidvania does not simply refer to side-scrolling action games.

It's more about side scrolling in an interconnected "open" world, acquiring power ups, backtracking and unlocking new areas/secrets with said power ups.

 

[Grauken]

Back to the topic of recommended metroidvanias: Iji is a free game made by a single dev and it's pretty good.

https://www.remar.se/daniel/iji.php

Has different endings based on how many enemies you kill, and which type of enemies (there's two opposed factions in the game).

Iji is more a cinematic platformer like Flashback/Blackthorne, you don't really backtrack to previous areas. Great game though. Remar's Hero Core is a bonafide shmup Metroidvania, one of the few ones that exist

 

[felipepepe]

Fave Metroidvania games then lads? I need to get some Wishlisted

There's a nice list here of PC titles: https://store.steampowered.com/curator/30503887-The-Metroidvania-Review/list/1454

My personal best are:
Hollow Knight
Salt & Sanctuary
Supraland
Blasphemous
Bloodstained

Also enjoyed:
8Doors: Arum's Afterlife Adventure
Dust: An Elysian Tail
Ori and the Blind Forest

 

[Funposter]

The combination of both titles (Metroid + Castlevania = Metroidvania) led to the genre moniker.

It should also be understood that it wasn't originally a portmanteau to describe games which are like Super Metroid and Castlevania: SOTN, rather it was a term used to describe Symphony of the Night as a Castlevania game which was like Metroid and this description stuck for the games in that style later released on the GameBoy Advance. Someone earlier in the thread said that the term came from the original Metroid and Simon's Quest (released a year apart) but this is just blatantly untrue, and Simon's Quest has nothing to do with the origin of the term beyond being a part of the pitch for Symphony of the Night to higher-ups at Konami, essentially "what if it was like Simon's Quest but not shit." There's a reason that Castlevania 3, Super Castlevania IV and Rondo of Blood/Dracula X were all traditional side-scrolling action games in the vein of the original.

 

[Grauken]

It should also be understood that it wasn't originally a portmanteau to describe games which are like Super Metroid and Castlevania: SOTN,

This is exactly as it has been used since its was introduced

rather it was a term used to describe Symphony of the Night as a Castlevania game which was [/b]like Metroid[/b] and this description stuck for the games in that style later released on the GameBoy Advance.

false, that's often purported by some people, but this is just not how the term was used

 

[Funposter]

false, that's often purported by some people, but this is just not how the term was used

I'm happy to be corrected, but I believe this is the earliest recorded use of the term, although in this case it's describing Circle of the Moon as using the "Metroid formula" and not SOTN. I have seen some people say that the term was around as early as 1999 though and I'm going to assume that someone managed to come up with it probably within a week of SOTN's October 97 release date in North America.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

metroidvania is another meme term like roguelite or cardbattler or jrpg or soulslike that you should put on your steam ignore list

 

[Grauken]

false, that's often purported by some people, but this is just not how the term was used

I'm happy to be corrected, but I believe this is the earliest recorded use of the term, although in this case it's describing Circle of the Moon as using the "Metroid formula" and not SOTN. I have seen some people say that the term was around as early as 1999 though and I'm going to assume that someone managed to come up with it probably within a week of SOTN's October 97 release date in North America.

This is indeed the first mention on the web, but it really only took off around the 2006/2007 timeframe and started to get used more and more as people tried to find similar games to Metroid and the Castlevania metroidvania. As for being used since 1999, I've seen that speculation before but nobody managed to find proof for that, and even if you could find some, like an article scan or so, it would be an outlier

 

[wishbonetail]

Symphony of the Night to higher-ups at Konami, essentially "what if it was like Simon's Quest but not shit." There's a reason that Castlevania 3, Super Castlevania IV and Rondo of Blood/Dracula X were all traditional side-scrolling action games in the vein of the original.

So, Simon's Quest is shit now? Good to know.
The only shit there was is a english translation.
From wiki
Simon's Quest is the second Castlevania game to depart from linear gameplay, following Vampire Killer for the MSX2 in 1986, and instead feature a non-linear explorative world. This design has been compared to Nintendo's famous Metroid series, yielding the Metroidvania subgenre. The game's exploration system and ideas introduced adventure elements to the series, and it would heavily influence future games. The first game that drew inspiration from it was Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.

I don't know where the heck the term came from. What i know is that Simons Quest plays like metroidvanias and older rpgs, like MM.
Arcadey Castlevanias are in totally different weight category.

It features nonlinear gameplay and role-playing elements such as a world map which the player is free to explore and revisit.Simon, controlled by the player, can talk with villagers who will offer him clues or lies.He can go to merchants who sell items, either for fighting enemies or for traversing to otherwise unreachable areas. To pay for them, he must collect hearts, which are dropped by defeated enemies.In addition to the ordinary items in Simon's inventory, he can purchase new whips in a few locations.Simon's Quest introduces an Experience Rating system, also found in role-playing games, which is increased by collecting hearts.
The period of time in Simon's Quest cycles between daytime and nightfall, which has an effect on the game and Simon's encounters. During the day, the enemies outside villages are weaker. At nighttime, they gain strength and inflict more damage to Simon's life points; though when defeated, they drop more hearts.The villagers and merchants in their respective locations are no longer available to talk to during night time, and are replaced by zombies.

 

[Grauken]

So, Simon's Quest is shit now? Good to know.

The game always had a bad reputation

 

[Funposter]

So, Simon's Quest is shit now? Good to know.

The game always had a bad reputation

Yeah I'm not exactly sure if "Simon's Quest is amazing ackshually" is the hill that you want to die on.

 

[Late Bloomer]

Fuck that I loved Simon's Quest.

 

[wishbonetail]

Simon's Quest got his bad reputation because of shitty translation. You supposed to get clues from the npcs who mostly talk gibberish. But still this game is not much more cryptic than the first Might and Magics. And with its elaborate open world, rich atmosphere and iconic music, like Bloody Tears, it is a worthy exemplar, even now. I dont get the reason why they've switched to linear arcades later on. Maybe it was too complex for console crowd, but it was a serious downgrade for me at the time.