Metroidvanias and RPGs - different genres, similar "game feel"

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

As a PC gamer who never had a console, I first discovered the so-called Metroidvanias on Newgrounds in the mid to late 00s. Around that time, a lot of free non-linear platformers with Metroid-style level design appeared on NG. I had a lot of fun playing those, and they made me a fan of the genre. Nowadays it has become one of my favorite genre tags on Steam.

Playing these, I can't help but notice that their gameplay is very RPG-ish in many ways. And I'm not even talking about those Metroidvanias that introduce a lot of RPG elements with levelups and all that - just the plain old Super Metroid clones that have you explore an open world, encounter obstacles you can't pass, and discover new abilities that allow you to overcome previously impassable obstacles.

It gives me the same feeling as playing a dungeon crawler like Might & Magic. You can explore the world in any direction you want, but you will encounter areas you cannot pass yet so you have to make a note and return later. Gaining new abilities not only improves your combat skill, but also enables you to explore previously closed off areas. It's a style of gameplay that's highly focused on exploration and discovery, very similar to classic dungeon crawlers in the M&M style, Ultima Underworld, Arx Fatalis, or open world RPGs like Elder Scrolls and Gothic.

They're obviously not RPGs, but the "game feel" they give you is very similar.

Lovely genre.

RPG elements have always been a key component to the Metroidvania since the specific Castelvania the moniker is referring to is Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.

Honestly, I don't really get the name, (other than sounding good) because the specific things it referring to doesn't really have anything to do with Metroid games, (none of the actual Metroid game have the leveling systems of Symphony of the Night and Metroidvania titles) the Metroid is there because of how Metroid's levels are, but they're like that in Symphony of the Night too. It's probably the only genre name where that makes reference to a specific series where the actual series wouldn't actually be considered part of the genre using its name. There was this funny this during the Kickstarter process for Bloodstained where Koji Igarashi started calling them Igavanias, and everyone was just kinda like "No" but it's probably a better term than Castlevania since it's not a term that's broadly talking about Metroid games or even the original Castlevania games, it's specifically about the things Igarashi did with Symphony of the Night.

But yeah, these games with Metroid style levels are in essence basically side scrolling dungeon crawler action adventur platformers...it's like a Zelda game as a side scroller where the world is a giant dungeon. Metroidvania's are even more so similar to dungeon crawlers given the RPG elements it lays on top of these big interconnected explorable environments. It wouldn't even really take much to just do them as RPGs.

 

[Grauken]

It's probably the only genre name where that makes reference to a specific series where the actual series wouldn't actually be considered part of the genre using its name.

Both Super Metroid and SOTN have an interconnected world to explore with various sections gated by specific abilities/items you have to find. Hence the name, hence it references the gameplay of both series. Not that hard to get

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

I want to chime in with


It's going to hit 1.0 soon. Good exploration, movement feels smooth, there's upgrades to be had. Don't have much clocked in yet though.

 

[Brickfrog]

Anyone play valdis story? Very tight and varied combat with wide build variety and good bosses.

 

[Darth Canoli]

As a PC gamer who never had a console, I first discovered the so-called Metroidvanias on Newgrounds in the mid to late 00s. Around that time, a lot of free non-linear platformers with Metroid-style level design appeared on NG. I had a lot of fun playing those, and they made me a fan of the genre. Nowadays it has become one of my favorite genre tags on Steam.

Playing these, I can't help but notice that their gameplay is very RPG-ish in many ways. And I'm not even talking about those Metroidvanias that introduce a lot of RPG elements with levelups and all that - just the plain old Super Metroid clones that have you explore an open world, encounter obstacles you can't pass, and discover new abilities that allow you to overcome previously impassable obstacles.

It gives me the same feeling as playing a dungeon crawler like Might & Magic. You can explore the world in any direction you want, but you will encounter areas you cannot pass yet so you have to make a note and return later. Gaining new abilities not only improves your combat skill, but also enables you to explore previously closed off areas. It's a style of gameplay that's highly focused on exploration and discovery, very similar to classic dungeon crawlers in the M&M style, Ultima Underworld, Arx Fatalis, or open world RPGs like Elder Scrolls and Gothic.

They're obviously not RPGs, but the "game feel" they give you is very similar.

I played a lot of games that look like they fit the bill but were never called castleroids.
Like Turrican and Strider.
Huge "non-linear" levels with hard to reach areas.
Also, a lot of platformers, from New Zealand story to Rainbow islands or action side-scrollers like Wonderboy, Ghost'n Goblins, Ghouls'n Ghosts...

But I never played any Castleroid games like Castlevania or Metroid.

Still, from what I gather, if it feels like RPG, that's certainly not Western RPG, jrpg maybe or maybe walking simulators like Morrowind some call RPG.

And I doubt any of those castleroids convey the same feeling as playing Arx Fatalis which mastered immersion because of its sound environment on top of the first person view.

But the term Metroidvania does not simply refer to side-scrolling action games.

It's more about side scrolling in an interconnected "open" world, acquiring power ups, backtracking and unlocking new areas/secrets with said power ups.

I get it now, interconnected worlds, unlocking areas and backtracking, so jrpg with action combat rather than the bland usual formula.

 

[curds]

I get it now, interconnected worlds, unlocking areas and backtracking,

Yeah, basically. With progression gated by the need to acquire power-ups in order to jump gap/blow up wall/burn away vines/etc.

so jrpg with action combat rather than the bland usual formula.

Uh... what? It's like you're trying to not understand.

 

[JarlFrank]

Still, from what I gather, if it feels like RPG, that's certainly not Western RPG, jrpg maybe or maybe walking simulators like Morrowind some call RPG.

Yes, Morrowind might be a good comparison. Which is a western RPG that can trace its lineage all the way back to Ultima Underworld, which is also a good comparison. Open world but with limited borders, usually set in a place like an island, dungeon, castle, space station etc.
It's not quite as immersive as first person RPGs like UU, Arx Fatalis, Morrowind etc, but they're still good games that scratch the explorefag itch. Why not give a Metroidvania a try? There's plenty of them available on Steam, don't even have to get into SNES emulation to play Super Metroid.

I get it now, interconnected worlds, unlocking areas and backtracking, so jrpg with action combat rather than the bland usual formula.

What the fuck does any of this have to do with JRPGs? It is pretty well known that I despise JRPGs, so how come I'm a fan of Metroidvanias if they were just "jrpg with action combat"?

Metroidvanias are what happens if you combine sidescrolling platformers with the level design of dungeon crawlers. Tons of secret areas to discover, skill upgrades that improve your moveset (both in combat and in exploration), interconnected worlds that can be explored in non-linear ways, etc etc. Imagine Super Mario and Might and Magic merging into one game.

 

[Viata]

except Fusion

What's wrong with Metroid Fusion? I played that one and liked it.

It's not really a Metroidvania. It's not a bad game, I think he is saying "except Fusion" because it's not a metroidvania compared to the rest recommended there.

 

[Grauken]

except Fusion

What's wrong with Metroid Fusion? I played that one and liked it.

It's not really a Metroidvania. It's not a bad game, I think he is saying "except Fusion" because it's not a metroidvania compared to the rest recommended there.

I like pure action 2d games like the Contra series and I like exploration-based 2d games, but Fusion tries to straddle the line and comes kinda short, neither good at exploration (it's basically handholding the game) nor is the action all that good. I also really hated the boss design in the game. Fusion is a pretty good attempt at times at a 2d survival horror game, but I never liked those

 

[PlanHex]

RPG elements have always been a key component to the Metroidvania since the specific Castelvania the moniker is referring to is Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.

Honestly, I don't really get the name, (other than sounding good) because the specific things it referring to doesn't really have anything to do with Metroid games, (none of the actual Metroid game have the leveling systems of Symphony of the Night and Metroidvania titles) the Metroid is there because of how Metroid's levels are, but they're like that in Symphony of the Night too. It's probably the only genre name where that makes reference to a specific series where the actual series wouldn't actually be considered part of the genre using its name. There was this funny this during the Kickstarter process for Bloodstained where Koji Igarashi started calling them Igavanias, and everyone was just kinda like "No" but it's probably a better term than Castlevania since it's not a term that's broadly talking about Metroid games or even the original Castlevania games, it's specifically about the things Igarashi did with Symphony of the Night.

But yeah, these games with Metroid style levels are in essence basically side scrolling dungeon crawler action adventur platformers...it's like a Zelda game as a side scroller where the world is a giant dungeon. Metroidvania's are even more so similar to dungeon crawlers given the RPG elements it lays on top of these big interconnected explorable environments. It wouldn't even really take much to just do them as RPGs.

I find this interesting because I feel the exact opposite about the genre-name, i.e. that the vania part is a useless appendage because it's just tacked on RPG elements like every other genre does these days, while the core of the genre was defined by Metroid and pretty much perfected in Super Metroid.
I don't think RPG elements are key at all.

In any case, I think we can all agree the name is silly, but no one seems to have a good alternative...

I also think it's tough to draw hard lines between when something is like Metroid, Zelda or Dark Souls as there are many commonalities of the core gameplay/exploration aspects, and certain games could fit into several of those boxes depending on which parts of it one highlights.
I heard someone (I think it was Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation?) try to come up with something more common like "sprawler" or similar, which does seem sort of apt, but then completely botch it by adding "recursive", which makes no sense...

 

[Viata]

I find this interesting because I feel the exact opposite about the genre-name, i.e. that the vania part is a useless appendage

For every Castlevania after SotN it makes sense to call them, and only them, Metroidvania because it's pretty much Metroid + RPG in a Castlevania game, so a Metroid Castlevania or Metroidvania.
But for any other game, it should be called Metroidclone or anything else since all of them have nothing to do with Castlevania, but everything to do with Metroid + RPG elements. I also think the RPG elements are not mandatory, but whatever.

 

[PlanHex]

Ah, I may have missed a subtlety about whether people are talking about the genre as a whole or different flavours of Castlevania games specifically.
Didn't think about that.
Another reason it's a bad name for the genre as a whole.

 

[wishbonetail]

also think it's tough to draw hard lines between when something is like Metroid, Zelda or Dark Souls as there are many commonalities of the core gameplay/exploration aspects, and certain games

I think the hard line is that Metroidvania should be a platformer.

 

[jdinatale]

Can anyone recommend any 3D Metroidvania games for PC? Something similar to King’s Field on the PlayStation. Doesn’t have to be first person.

I already am aware of the From Software games.

 

[PlanHex]

also think it's tough to draw hard lines between when something is like Metroid, Zelda or Dark Souls as there are many commonalities of the core gameplay/exploration aspects, and certain games

I think the hard line is that Metroidvania should be a platformer.

I dunno man, Metroid Prime sticks pretty close to the core and checks all the boxes for me despite the fact that one could technically put it in the first person shooter box and call it a day...

 

[wishbonetail]

dunno man, Metroid Prime sticks pretty close to the core and checks all the boxes for me despite the fact that one could technically put it in the first person shooter box and call it a day...

Then, maybe Gothic is metroidvania, or Alien Isolation, or Doom 2016? All of the games recommended in this thread or advertised on the internets as metroidvania are platformers. This thread started with a comparison of how similar design these platformers have to pc dungeon crawlers, which were anything but platformers. So, my guess, this is a hard line.

 

[JarlFrank]

Can anyone recommend any 3D Metroidvania games for PC? Something similar to King’s Field on the PlayStation. Doesn’t have to be first person.

I already am aware of the From Software games.

The End of Dyeus is pretty much Metroidvania/Zelda-like in first person, and it's good.
Also has a steep difficulty curve.

 

[Alienman]

Not that versed in the genre, but I do enjoy playing them. Two modern ones that I really enjoyed was:



and



But I have to say that Tails of Iron could probably be considered a "light" version. It's not that big, or hard, and it has not that much to keep track of. Batbarian feels more true to the genre, though, and it is considerable harder. Much more stuff to keep track off, and in general more difficult encounters, with more upgrades. It's a comedy game, so be aware, but I found the humor fun, and not forced in any way.

 

[Alpan]

Great thread and discussion. Very unfamiliar with this genre as a whole -- I just played Symphony of the Night back in the day, and spent just a few hours on Hollow Knight -- and the references here are very helpful.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

Examples of metroidvanias in 3d I can think of is Batman arkhan asylum, and darksiders 1/2, legacy of kain: defiance, and metroidprime trilogy. Well, some are not explicit metroidvanias, or sold as such, but when you play, then you get the metroidvania vibe.

Another good one which has 3d graphics in a 2d layout is Strider (2014)

There's one game that have a metroidvania feeling but it doesn't actually is: Dead Cells. The world is random and not backtrackable, and you can finish it in your first playthrough with your first weapon. I borrows a lot from the metroidvania style, like the maps, gameplay, but evolving your abilities/power ups/weapons require multiple playthroughs.

dunno man, Metroid Prime sticks pretty close to the core and checks all the boxes for me despite the fact that one could technically put it in the first person shooter box and call it a day...

Then, maybe Gothic is metroidvania, or Alien Isolation, or Doom 2016? All of the games recommended in this thread or advertised on the internets as metroidvania are platformers. This thread started with a comparison of how similar design these platformers have to pc dungeon crawlers, which were anything but platformers. So, my guess, this is a hard line.

Well, metroid prime has platforming. It's just 3d metroid.

The main elements of a metroidvania is having a self-contained interconnected world that you can backtrack at will (sometimes softlocked in an area), and power-ups/items/weapons with very defining characteristics that they're the only mean to pass through some barriers/obstacles, and there's a lot of variety in these kind of obstacles, and they must have only one (or two) kind of solution. Like fire gun to destroy ice walls, and magnetic boots to walk on the ceiling to traverse a chasm you can't jump through.

It can be 2d, 3d with an 2d platforming point of view, or 3d.

Gothic isn't metroidvania beacause you can open a door by having a key or picking a lock, or someone open it for you through dialogue. Also, you don't have to get mandadory abilities to finish the game.

I didn't play Alien Isolation, but it could qualify if it has backtracking. But the lack of variety in abilities tend to force it in survival horror genre. It reminds me when superbunnyhop called system shock 1 a metroidvania. It does have self contained backtrackable world, so you can stretch it a little to fit the genre. As I did with dark souls 1.

Doom 2016 is a stage/levels based game. You can't backtrack, you only move forward. You don't have an obstacle in level 1 which you can only pass by getting a powerup in level 7.

 

[felipepepe]

Can anyone recommend any 3D Metroidvania games for PC? Something similar to King’s Field on the PlayStation. Doesn’t have to be first person.

I already am aware of the From Software games.

If you like the exploration and puzzle-solving, Supraland is amazing: https://store.steampowered.com/app/813630/Supraland/

It looks like a children's game, but it's extremely well-designed, with a massive seamless open world and chock full of secrets. That kind of game where you chain 5 crazy jumps to reach a ledge you're not supposed to go and when you get there you find a small reward and a wink from the dev acknowledging you.

 

[Funposter]

Examples of metroidvanias in 3d I can think of is Batman arkhan asylum,

Arkham Asylum is a good shout, essentially being Metroid Prime but with Batman.

 

[Machocruz]

Every instance of the term 'world' or 'interconnected world' should be replaced with 'labyrinthe', as being set in one is key to the feel of Metroid and Igavanias, not just any kind of environment will do. The fact that people call this a "genre"means we're already engaging in needless granularity and specificity, so why then be general with (pertinent) level structure?

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

RPG elements have always been a key component to the Metroidvania since the specific Castelvania the moniker is referring to is Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.

Honestly, I don't really get the name, (other than sounding good) because the specific things it referring to doesn't really have anything to do with Metroid games, (none of the actual Metroid game have the leveling systems of Symphony of the Night and Metroidvania titles) the Metroid is there because of how Metroid's levels are, but they're like that in Symphony of the Night too. It's probably the only genre name where that makes reference to a specific series where the actual series wouldn't actually be considered part of the genre using its name. There was this funny this during the Kickstarter process for Bloodstained where Koji Igarashi started calling them Igavanias, and everyone was just kinda like "No" but it's probably a better term than Castlevania since it's not a term that's broadly talking about Metroid games or even the original Castlevania games, it's specifically about the things Igarashi did with Symphony of the Night.

But yeah, these games with Metroid style levels are in essence basically side scrolling dungeon crawler action adventur platformers...it's like a Zelda game as a side scroller where the world is a giant dungeon. Metroidvania's are even more so similar to dungeon crawlers given the RPG elements it lays on top of these big interconnected explorable environments. It wouldn't even really take much to just do them as RPGs.

I find this interesting because I feel the exact opposite about the genre-name, i.e. that the vania part is a useless appendage because it's just tacked on RPG elements like every other genre does these days, while the core of the genre was defined by Metroid and pretty much perfected in Super Metroid.
I don't think RPG elements are key at all.

In any case, I think we can all agree the name is silly, but no one seems to have a good alternative...

I also think it's tough to draw hard lines between when something is like Metroid, Zelda or Dark Souls as there are many commonalities of the core gameplay/exploration aspects, and certain games could fit into several of those boxes depending on which parts of it one highlights.
I heard someone (I think it was Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation?) try to come up with something more common like "sprawler" or similar, which does seem sort of apt, but then completely botch it by adding "recursive", which makes no sense...

You're basically just talking about Action Adventure games. Metroid is essentially The Legend of Zelda (or Adventure) as a side scrolling platformer. The exploration aspect, the interconnected world, finding items to open up areas you couldn't previous go, that's just Action Adventure Zelda stuff. The term Metroidvania however is specifically about a variant that added all the RPG stuff Symphony of the Night added to the equation, so the Vania part isn't superfluous, it's the very thing the name was about.

It's probably the only genre name where that makes reference to a specific series where the actual series wouldn't actually be considered part of the genre using its name.

Both Super Metroid and SOTN have an interconnected world to explore with various sections gated by specific abilities/items you have to find. Hence the name, hence it references the gameplay of both series. Not that hard to get

Only the name isn't specifically about interconnected world, it's specifically about the things SotN did, which is the interconnected world...but also the RPG stuff. Metroid games do not have that RPG stuff, so they are not Metroidvanias. Likewise, the Castlevania games before SotN aren't Metroidvanias either.

 

[Ladonna]

I had plenty of fun with Unepic. It has a lot of RPG elements, good boss fights, and good exploration too. Humour falls down a bit though.

https://af.gog.com/en/game/unepic?as=1649904300