What drove BG3's success, game mechanics or emotional engagement?

[Butter]

Viral marketing absolutely contributed to the commercial success of BG3 (it did for DOS2 also), the idea of "my favorite streamer is playing this and I don't want to miss out", but that doesn't create long-term engagement unless the game actually delivers what those players want.

What most of those players want is the BioWare formula, and BioWare haven't competently delivered that in over a decade. Just do good production value, romance/sex, a bit of narrative choice (normies love good and bad endings), and serviceable combat that isn't too hard and is ideally flashy. Sounds easy, but remember that most developers suck at their jobs.

 

[Hagashager]

"Astarion you're sucking the Drow Knife-Ears blood whether you like it or not. No, no, don't give me this 'consent' shit, I slept with a god-damned bear two weeks ago so I can literally rip people's rectum's out with a +20 bonus. You will suck that blood, I will get my +2 Strength potion."

 

[Baron Tahn]

Ha. Glad I didnt take Astarion I left him on the beach. Not sure why they thought having a elven vampire fag try to ambush me from behind was an endearing bit of writing. Should have executed him on the spot.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Viral marketing absolutely contributed to the commercial success of BG3 (it did for DOS2 also), the idea of "my favorite streamer is playing this and I don't want to miss out", but that doesn't create long-term engagement unless the game actually delivers what those players want.

I'm convinced this is why any game is a hit these days. So many games explode out of no where because streamers get free keys and build up hype with their viewer base. Traditional marketing doesn't seem as effective as giving a bunch of free keys to any one who asks and sponsoring a few of the bigger guys for a couple of hours. I bought Helldivers because I saw a random guy playing it and thought it looked fun. I know others who bought Pal world for the same reason. Multiplayer and DnD's name doesn't sell games the same way the big hits have sold this year so the formula has to be something very different to what the game content is.

 

[Lemming42]

Superb production values, a cast of characters where most players are guaranteed to like at least one or two of the companions (and can easily ignore the ones they don't like), a plot that hits all the classic adventure story beats and takes you to a raft of exotic locations. It's basically an exercise in giving people a concentrated dose of exactly what they want, which is refreshing when the current gaming industry so often seems to be a case of the opposite (giving people focus-grouped shit that nobody actually likes, like forced crafting systems or empty open worlds).

The story and world also have an enormous sense of high-spirited fun and jocularity which, again, is something often lacking in modern games and media in general.

The mechanics play a role in the success too in that they're simultaneously very accessible for newcomers but deep enough to spend a bit of time getting into. They also allow for unorthodox/"emergent gameplay" solutions to problems, which is something pretty much everyone likes.

Basically, the strategy was to draw people in with the world and characters, then make sure the mechanics were accessible and enjoyable enough that even the most "i'm here for the story" player would have fun with them. In terms of actually drawing people in, having the voice actors do so much in-character promotional shit definitely helped, but other than that I think it just spread like wildfire thanks to fandom communities latching onto the characters so much.

 

[agris]

Good discussions so far, sounds like BioWare v2024 is the emerging consensus.

 

[agris]

It's basically an exercise in giving people a concentrated dose of exactly what they want

man if only we could press a button to get that dose…

 

[MerchantKing]

There's nothing special about the game. What sells lots of copies is what appeals to the lowest common denominator. That is, a bunch of cutscenes and hype.

 

[Lemming42]

Good discussions so far, sounds like BioWare v2024 is the emerging consensus.

Definitely following in BioWare's footsteps, especially the ME1/DA:O era, but in this case they've produced a much better game than BioWare ever did, IMO. Also, subjectively, I find Larian's writing far less grating than BioWare's; something about literally every companion in ME and DA rubs me up the wrong way. BG3 certainly has its problems (I really got sick of Astarion by the end and never warmed up to a couple of characters at all) but the only companion I almost liked across all BioWare's ME/DA games was Vivienne in Inquisition, and that's only because she was there as a peace offering to people who think the mage plot in DA2 was insane.

The problem with ME and DA was that it all falls apart when you have to actually do something other than dialogue - Mass Effect's combat was serviceable at best and its level design was awful (especially the copypasted sidequest planets), while DA:O's combat was decent but encounters were horribly excessive, and DA2's encounter design and frequency was so bad that it actually has to have been a joke.

BG3 meanwhile has a much better world to explore (especially in Act 1) and combat is both much more fun than any BioWare game and also given to the player in reasonable amounts. There's also the difference that quests in BG3 generally tend to follow a Fallout type of design with branches and skill checks and multiple endings, which didn't tend to be quite so pronounced in ME or DA as far as I remember, which did a lot of railroading and sometimes just gave the player a binary choice at the end of each quest.

 

[NecroLord]

There's nothing special about the game. What sells lots of copies is what appeals to the lowest common denominator. That is, a bunch of cutscenes and hype.

A very sensible point, Jan Jansen.

 

[jaekl]

It's made for women and 100% of women are women and 75% of men are now basically women so that's how you tap into the biggest market. Soap operas.

 

[Iucounu]

Marketing.

Haven't played the game, but I suspect this is correct. Marketers made gullible consumers believe it was a popular game, and so they all had to play it to fit in.

Deep. I bet you were popular in school. Anyway...

Well, the targets of the marketers are straight males willing to watch gay sex cutscenes to fit in with other straight males (that are also watching the gay sex cut scenes to fit in). But being a sheep like that does not make you popular, it only lets you hide among the other sheep.

 

[MasPingon]

Marketing.

Haven't played the game, but I suspect this is correct. Marketers made gullible consumers believe it was a popular game, and so they all had to play it to fit in.

Deep. I bet you were popular in school. Anyway...

Well, the targets of the marketers are straight males willing to watch gay sex cutscenes to fit in with other straight males (that are also watching the gay sex cut scenes to fit in). But being a sheep like that does not make you popular, it only lets you hide among the other sheep.

This is how discussion with people praising BG3 here on Codex looks like in a nutshell:

 

[Morality Games]

What drove BG3's success, game mechanics or emotional engagement?​

Production values, co-op, and the D&D license.

 

[Chippy]

Bear sex.


Sorry, i just can't stop myself when occasion presents itself. Lack of self-control, i suppose.

from today shitbox discussion: if bear sex were to offer you substantial bonus through rest of the game, most of the codexers would go through it

I told a similiar joke once on the Beamdog forums when they posted a trans with a gigantic cock "So dual wielding would give x3 APR right? I've found a counter to Drizzt's double thrust low".

I don't think anyone got it.

 

[TedNugent]

I booted this up for the first time the other day because my girlfriend made me buy it for her, and I was quite stunned that you can customize your genitalia with such granularity.

Clearly, that's part of it. The X crowd approves, golf clapping proceeds. I'm actually quite shocked that Codex is so for it.

I'll admit that the production value is tempting, but everything about it, including the fact it's by Larian, puts me off. I seriously could not stand playing Divinity for more than 10 minutes. But this was a lot more attractive as a package. I mostly refuse to touch it (for now) because I dislike D&D 5.

 

[Hagashager]

On the topic of the genitalia thing: I'm actually of the mind that didn't help things. In the process of playing tgrough BG3 with my normie friends, an IMMEDIATE predicament that came up was the flagrantly uncensored genital options. These are not prudish people, they're bog-standard Neoliberals who parrot whatever MSNBC tells them, but when confronted with full-frontal nudity they got squamish.

Quite fascinating really, figured they were better than that.

 

[huskarls]

Its an hyper AAA+ RPG with voice acting, graphics, setting. Same as skyrim and witcher. They call it atmosphere, immersion. When you walk into tarant in arcanum and hear the violins, when you sit there and think about what can change the nature of man, or whatever non popamole example you want me to give. Any rage is from them taking away the immersion from gay sex offers or radiant quests. Its not movie gaming, its more nuanced, its story fagging expect it doesnt need a good story

 

[Lemming42]

The genitalia thing definitely is a repelling factor, rather than something that appeals to new players. It gives a rather inaccurate impression of what the game will be like too, since the sexual content is otherwise relatively sparse and mostly easily ignored. It's the one thing in the game that really does feel like a deliberate attempt to generate a response from people online and generate "meme value" or whatever, feels cynical and out of place.

Did lead to one of the biggest laughs in the game though in that I gave my female gnome an uncut cock and then forgot about it until it suddenly popped out during the scene with the demon in the House of Hope.

 

[NotSweeper]

Cinematic cutscenes, voice acting, high production values, good graphics, sex.

The pornographic equivalent of Disco Elysium. Everything but the mechanics. Everything but the gameplay.

 

[NecroLord]

The genitalia thing definitely is a repelling factor, rather than something that appeals to new players. It gives a rather inaccurate impression of what the game will be like too, since the sexual content is otherwise relatively sparse and mostly easily ignored. It's the one thing in the game that really does feel like a deliberate attempt to generate a response from people online and generate "meme value" or whatever, feels cynical and out of place.

Did lead to one of the biggest laughs in the game though in that I gave my female gnome an uncut cock and then forgot about it until it suddenly popped out during the scene with the demon in the House of Hope.

If you think about it, Ed Greenwood would most certainly approve of the degeneracy in BG3.
Forgotten Realms and all that...

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

There's a myopic denial of Larian's focus on core gameplay, honed through three successive titles, in comments like these.

I believe that BioWare failed as a game company because they never cultivated an "identity" in terms of gameplay. Their signature narrative style was all they had and it wasn't enough.

In BG3, the cinematics are still just the cherry on top, even if it's an increasingly large cherry.

your back must hurt from carrying all that water

you aren't stupid, so lets be real: why is BG3 so commercially successful? I think there's six or seven big factors to consider.

• D&D name recognition
• Baldur's Gate name recognition
• Larian / Original Sin name recognition
• Local or online Co-op play
• Audience flattery / emotional connections (dress up, companion bonding, romances, sex, cutscenes)
• Recognizing player narrative/quest choices via visual consequences
• Game mechanics, i.e. itemization, character building, TB combat, full party control, encounter design, map verticality

You forgot the most important reason for BG3's success: viral bear marketing.

 

[Bulo]

Today's generation of tasteless losers is much larger than the last

 

[Bulo]

I say this as someone who has never played BG3. I believe in intuition

 

[HumanTotemPole]

The genitalia thing definitely is a repelling factor, rather than something that appeals to new players.

Wouldn't be so sure about that. Per general trends in the developed societies that play the most games the average RPG fan is even more likely to be socially isolated and sexually unfulfilled than before. The relative success of Skyrim "adult" themed modpacks sorry collections points to this. The most popular one was at nearly a million downloads before it got hidden.

BG3's success will probably legitimise introducing more explicit sexual content into mainstream titles. There's certainly a market there if lonely nerds get a somewhat socially acceptable way to access a simulacrum of human sexuality. No more the shame of going gooner and getting into ghetto-budget porn games or mods.