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How great RPGs would be without the decline?

DannyRope

Literate
Joined
Oct 29, 2024
Messages
44
Beggars can`t be choosers. Is not as if we are getting Wizardry 6/7/8, BG2-SoA, VtMB, Arcanum, FL1/2 and other masterpieces every single month. In a world of Failguards and Forspoken, BG3 is a masterpiece. But compared to older classic games, is awful.

While I adore Arcanum and Bloodlines, especially the latter one, at the same time it seems I hold a more charitable view on BG3 than most guys around these parts, I wouldn't call it a masterpiece but certainly not awful either. I enjoyed it well enough, I also played it to completion which is something rare for me with modern RPG. It lacks sense of urgency, for a plot that is supposed to be all about getting rid of a fatal parasites but that it seems to be a common flaw for modern RPG. "I have to find my adoptive daughter Ciri before the Wild Hunt get to her! Oh, wait... that's a nice deck you have there, mind a game of Gwent?"
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
11,115
Location
Nottingham
In the past, when technology advanced, devs were eager to implement new stuff. For example, from Might & Magic V to VI: Mandate of Heaven, one of the very first things that they did was to add flight spells into the game. Same for Ultima Underworld, the game implemented levitation magic spells not presented in the mainline of Ultima games. Sadly, nowadays RPGs are all about taking cool stuff from older games and iterations and removing it.

But just imagine how cool they could be if, for example, instead of dialog wheels, each NPC could be talked to like a chatterbot. IF instead of removing ways to open doors, in older RPGs like Arcanum, you could bash, disintegrate doors with spells, magically open with unlock cantrip, lockpick, use dynamite, etc., to open any door or window. In modern RPGs, you can only use a lockpick. With all advancements in physics engines, real-time RPGs could have realistic physics, allowing, for example, a very powerful psion to telekinetically hurl a car at a building, and the game could simulate the impact, damage, and other factors in a realistic way. The AI of monsters in real-time RPGs could be as advanced as FEAR. Axe strikes could decapitate enemies and mutilate enemy bodies in a realistic way. With the advancement of AI, we could have P&P modules ported into CRPGs, and the DM could react to PCs out-of-the-box thinking. Think of using animated objects in very creative ways to bypass puzzles or, IDK, sneaking into the boss with an army of invisible animated bag of holdings to drop nasty stuff upon him. An AI DM would be able to react to such ideas. The AI would also be able to counter the PC party in TB games and force the PC to adjust its strategy. Could be even more advanced than KoTC2. Other game genres to take the advancements in physics and AI.

But instead we got... dialog wheels, bullet sponge enemies, the same QTE/cooldown managing boredom for endless gear farming, stat-sticky itemization, nonsensical stupid armor design, pronouns in character creation, etc.
Tbf, we didn't get those things, normies did.

Games like Skald, Underail and Grimoire prove that there's still enough of an underground scene for us to just enjoy old school style stuff. In fact, even some devs like SEGA/Atlus give us more old-school experiences such as SMTVV and Yakuza: Like A Dragon. I couldn't give a fuck about the mainstream dross they shit out, that's long been put to the back of the queue for me to maybe occasionally pirate or buy dirt cheap for shits and giggles more than anything. I picked up Fallout 4 for £1 for the PS4, and even then felt fucking robbed.
 

Skinwalker

biggest fear: vacuum cleaner
Patron
Undisputed Queen of Faggotry Village Idiot
Joined
Aug 20, 2021
Messages
13,408
Location
Yessex
It lacks sense of urgency, for a plot that is supposed to be all about getting rid of a fatal parasites but that it seems to be a common flaw for modern RPG. "I have to find my adoptive daughter Ciri before the Wild Hunt get to her! Oh, wait... that's a nice deck you have there, mind a game of Gwent?"
Yea, but what about "my childhood friend Imoen was RAPED and kidnapped by an evil wizard who wants nothing more than to viciously experiment on her! anyway, let's talk to every single person in this city and do errands for them for the next several months, probably."

Putting a super-urgent plot mission aside to enjoy the side-quests is a long-standing tradition in RPGs. Ironically, Dragon Age II was one of the games whose main quest (in the first act) made the most sense: the protagonist is just trying to get enough money to go on a risky expedition that might help him left himself and his family out of poverty.

And then the second and third act happen and the game goes to shit.
 

Shaki

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
1,731
Location
Hyperborea
Games trying to become closer to the PnP is the decline now, because PnP declined itself. We've already seen what happens when devs emulate tabletop experience now. BG3 went all in trying to become "Critical Role: The Game", and it ain't pretty. Normies have the destroyed the hobby, and it should've been abandoned long time ago. Just make fun games that are good in the context of cRPG genre (like Underrail), instead of trying to focus on "hurr durr why it isn't more like PnP" (like BG3). If you want PnP, go befriend some trannies and play with them irl, they love it. I lock myself in the basement with my PC to escape from these people, not get closer to them.

:rpgcodex:
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
17,358
Location
Frostfell
Games trying to become closer to the PnP is the decline now, because PnP declined itself

That depends on the P&P game. D&D 5e? PF2e? Yes. Huge decline.

Now, imagine a as close to P&P as possible adaptation of Hyperborea, GURPS Technomancer, Machinations of the Space Princess.

PS : I agree that UnderRail is amazing. But IMO WH40k RT would be better if was closer to Dark Heresy TT RPG. Or to other OwlCat systems. And had Telekinesis for psykers.
 

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