World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming early 2025

[Vulpes]

The whole struggle over the Ankaran Sarcophagus exists to test how modern vampires (be they Sabbat, Anarch, Camarilla, Elder or fledgeling) would react if their ancient forefathers returned.

None of this requires making an Extra Special vampire to serve as an errand runner.

You have no prior allegiances or attachments since your sire was killed just as you were embraced, which means you have a high degree of social mobility. You are the perfect tool to subtly stir the pot amongst the different factions as your unaffiliated nature will attract them to you. Everyone, even the Kuei-Jin, wants you on their side. If it weren't for your player character, this scheme would've grinded to a halt right as the Elizabeth Dane arrived in LA.

And what new things did he learn from this? If you take the fledgeling out of the picture, very little would have changed, just some minor details.

Who then would've found out that the Giovanni have the sarcophagus? Maybe you didn't notice it, but before you showed up the Sabbat were right in the middle of slaughtering the only people who know where it is. Smiling Jack? No one outside of Nines' gang would've believed him and even they would find it suspicious how he knows this. And do you seriously think Ming Xiao would've told someone who is already loyal to one of the Kindred sects that she has the key? Fuck no, she's only being honest with you to try to win you over.

 

[normie]

They made a game using a setting and characters they didn't create and that did not belong to them. The IP Owner decides what counts.

"what counts" is not what's in the game, that's just you again rationalising your inability to understand or appreciate a creative work on its merits and rerouting the reasoning "why" back to your subservience to authority and prestige because I don't know, it's your thing now because you think that's what your impression of a smart person is, a neocon dicksucker who wants to eat the crud between the toes of those who've been to prestige universities
"VTMB IS BAD BECAUSE CAIN WENT TO UC IRVINE "
Squeenix decides what "counts", but they have no meaningful say on the intentions of Deus Ex and you'd be utterly confused about it if you'd insist on retrofitting HR's ideas to the first game, Conan Doyle Estate can say Enola Holmes is the real brain of the family but it has no bearing on "The Hound of the Baskervilles", Rowling can say Dumbledore is a homo but it wasn't even a thought in her brain when writing her first book and you'd be a real goober trying to read "Harry Potter and The Philosopher's Stone" critically as an example of queer literature, 50 different cuts of Blade Runner from the same retarded faggot, the god with the word doesn't himself know which way is up or down, it changed with the weather

And brains like these went on to create Dead State and The Outer Worlds.

no heroes, no martyrs

 

[Skinwalker]

Kreia is Arren Kae, Handmaiden's mother, and the Jedi Exile is a man.

 

[Roguey]

You have no prior allegiances or attachments since your sire was killed just as you were embraced, which means you have a high degree of social mobility. You are the perfect tool to subtly stir the pot amongst the different factions as your unaffiliated nature will attract them to you. Everyone, even the Kuei-Jin, wants you on their side. If it weren't for your player character, this scheme would've grinded to a halt right as the Elizabeth Dane arrived in LA.

"My scheme to throw a Sarcophagus at these vamps and see what happens also requires having my own unknowing agent intervening which defeats the purpose because I quite figuratively have my thumb on the scale."

The agent was perhaps necessary to get the outcome of "LaCroix gets blown up by the bomb" but why is that so important? There are also endings where he doesn't get blown up (Xiao, Strauss).

LaCroix also certainly wouldn't have just thrown his hands up and given up. He has his Sheriff, he has other vampires to throw at the problem. He sends the PC on suicide missions hoping you'll fail, your successes benefit him, but are also an unwelcome surprise.

"VTMB IS BAD BECAUSE CAIN WENT TO UC IRVINE "

Cain showed what kind of writer he was with the Vault retcon. He rule-of-cools it, and if he later finds out that his idea was implausible, he comes up with an explanation to "make it work" even if it's incredibly silly. Maybe get it right the first time.

Squeenix decides what "counts", but they have no meaningful say on the intentions of Deus Ex and you'd be utterly confused about it if you'd insist on retrofitting HR's ideas to the first game, Conan Doyle Estate can say Enola Holmes is the real brain of the family but it has no bearing on "The Hound of the Baskervilles", Rowling can say Dumbledore is a homo but it wasn't even a thought in her brain when writing her first book and you'd be a real goober trying to read "Harry Potter and The Philosopher's Stone" critically as an example of queer literature, 50 different cuts of Blade Runner from the same retarded faggot, the god with the word doesn't himself know which way is up or down, it changed with the wather

Drew Karpyshyn made a book sequel to KOTOR 2 that straight up bulldozed it. But Drew was the primary author of the first game, KOTOR 2 being a sequel he had no control over and apparently didn't care for at all. Of all these works, 2 had the best writing. But Lucas was quite willing to discard it and it's no longer canon, that's their call.

 

[normie]

"VTMB IS BAD BECAUSE CAIN WENT TO UC IRVINE "

Cain showed what kind of writer he was with the Vault retcon. He rule-of-cools it, and if he later finds out that his idea was implausible, he comes up with an explanation to "make it work" even if it's incredibly silly. Maybe get it right the first time.

Squeenix decides what "counts", but they have no meaningful say on the intentions of Deus Ex and you'd be utterly confused about it if you'd insist on retrofitting HR's ideas to the first game, Conan Doyle Estate can say Enola Holmes is the real brain of the family but it has no bearing on "The Hound of the Baskervilles", Rowling can say Dumbledore is a homo but it wasn't even a thought in her brain when writing her first book and you'd be a real goober trying to read "Harry Potter and The Philosopher's Stone" critically as an example of queer literature, 50 different cuts of Blade Runner from the same retarded faggot, the god with the word doesn't himself know which way is up or down, it changed with the weather

Drew Karpyshyn made a book sequel to KOTOR 2 that straight up bulldozed it. But Drew was the primary author of the first game, KOTOR 2 being a sequel he had no control over and apparently didn't care for at all. Of all these works, 2 had the best writing. But Lucas was quite willing to discard it and it's no longer canon, that's their call.

guy, everybody knows how canon works, and nobody is disputing it
the issue is your sleight of hand in your application of it for what's not a question of canon, but your misunderstanding of the qualities of a work independent of "canonical" interpretations, and once explained, not ceding it for what it is, good or bad, because I guess no answer is as good as the one you arrived on your own, or in this case didn't

the concept doesn't even enter the brain of someone whose only experience with WoD is VTMB, there is no CANON - and if they're confused about the game based on what's just presented in the game, knowing CANON brings no greater clarity to their ability to evaluate the work on its merits
the Caine of VTMB is coherent to VTMB and Troikas handling of WoD ideas as explored in VTMB - you don't understand or appreciate the motivations of Caine hinted at as explored in VTMB, so bringing in outside lore and assigning greater importance to the interpretations of preceding or following works of others to try to weasel out reasons why the creators of VTMB are somehow wrong or misguided about their own work is so far off course in trying to get the interpretation of the game's ideas right, it gets you no greater clarity and it becomes a discussion about something completely irrelevant to the game

 

[Roguey]

the concept doesn't even enter the brain of someone whose only experience with WoD is VTMB, there is no CANON - and if they're confused about the game based on what's just presented in the game, knowing CANON brings no greater clarity to their ability to evaluate the work on its merits
the Caine of VTMB is coherent to VTMB and Troikas handling of WoD ideas as explored in VTMB - you don't understand or appreciate the motivations of Caine hinted at as explored in VTMB, so bringing in outside lore and assigning greater importance to the interpretations of preceding or following works of others to try to weasel out reasons why the creators of VTMB are somehow wrong or misguided about their own work is so far off course in trying to get the interpretation of the game's ideas right, it gets you no greater clarity and it becomes a discussion about something completely irrelevant to the game

There's a metaplot and that's canon.

One of my favorite posters made a great thread-long takedown of why Troika's handling of Vampire was as bad as Bethesda's handling of Fallout https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/the-codexs-official-opinion-on-vtm-bloodlines.50142/post-1345616

 

[Larianshill]

Bloodlines elevated the shitpile that is the World of Darkness tabletop

 

[Storyfag]

Also, he clearly favors the Anarch cause in his dialogue.

It's well within his power to single-handedly wipe out the Camarilla, but he doesn't do this because...?

Because he is tired of ruling and of judging. He made that mistake before, but he is doing it again: leaving it to his Childer to decide their fate. He says it outright, though, admittedly, you get the full picture only after a non-Malk and Malk playthrough.

 

[Storyfag]

There's a metaplot and that's canon.

The metaplot is hot garbage for midwits. At my table, the Sabbat is still kickin' and there's no Gehenna War going on. Hell, the 2nd Inquisition is much smaller than in the metaplot. At Troika's table, Caine drives a cab in LA. It is basic GM/DM/Storyteller courtesy to appreciate when another does something cool with an RPG setting.

 

[d1r]

Bloodlines elevated the shitpile that is the World of Darkness tabletop

Don't worry, Bloodlines 2 will undo this grave mistake.

 

[Wesp5]

The agent was perhaps necessary to get the outcome of "LaCroix gets blown up by the bomb" but why is that so important? There are also endings where he doesn't get blown up (Xiao, Strauss).

You overlook that Jack is involved. Caine may only have used the sarcophagus to test his children but Jack wanted to get rid of some enemies of the Anarchs at the same time and for that he needed the Fledgling.

 

[NecroLord]

The agent was perhaps necessary to get the outcome of "LaCroix gets blown up by the bomb" but why is that so important? There are also endings where he doesn't get blown up (Xiao, Strauss).

You overlook that Jack is involved. Caine may only have used the sarcophagus to test his children but Jack wanted to get rid of some enemies of the Anarchs at the same time and for that he needed the Fledgling.

Jack also probably wanted to diablerize whoever was inside.

 

[Storyfag]

The agent was perhaps necessary to get the outcome of "LaCroix gets blown up by the bomb" but why is that so important? There are also endings where he doesn't get blown up (Xiao, Strauss).

You overlook that Jack is involved. Caine may only have used the sarcophagus to test his children but Jack wanted to get rid of some enemies of the Anarchs at the same time and for that he needed the Fledgling.

Jack also probably wanted to diablerize whoever was inside.

I doubt that. Otherwise, Caine would not have found him intriguing.

 

[Vincente]

There's a metaplot and that's canon.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

the concept doesn't even enter the brain of someone whose only experience with WoD is VTMB, there is no CANON - and if they're confused about the game based on what's just presented in the game, knowing CANON brings no greater clarity to their ability to evaluate the work on its merits

Denying the relevance of canon rings hollow, when the work derives the foundation of its own relevance from an advertised connection to said canon.

What merits Bloodlines, or in fact any adaptation has as a narrative, it generally borrows from canon, and if its original additions are confusing and poorly structured, where the canon is clear and coherent, that demerits it not only as an adaptation, but doubly so as an original work, as in addition to failing the higher virtue of attempting something new, it fails the lower virtue of merely copying as well.

 

[The President]

Was Caine even really involved in the plot. He does comment he only recently met Jack. I figured he had the same relationship to Jack he has with the protagonist. I didn’t see him as the actual plotter, more of a voyeur if anything who takes a liking to the player character and Jack. Beckett and a few others comment they feel a strong presence in the air which they assume is the sarcophagus but is probably Caine.

I figured his sympathies lied with the anarchs on the outside chance the local anarch chapter could create a new Enoch.

 

[Longes]

The whole struggle over the Ankaran Sarcophagus exists to test how modern vampires (be they Sabbat, Anarch, Camarilla, Elder or fledgeling) would react if their ancient forefathers returned.

None of this requires making an Extra Special vampire to serve as an errand runner.

Nothing about the plot of Bloodlines requires the MC to be Extra Special. Sure, we progress our skills quickly compared to the tabletop RPG, but it's a video game. That's how video games always worked. We never break the generational limits or manifest extra special powers or really do anything super duper vampiric that's crucial to the plot. And IMO, the plot is much more interesting if MC is just a random newbie vampire who happens to be mostly competent, than if the MC is the secret chosen one.