bossjimbob said:
Chris already admitted that while Dungeon Siege was a commercial success to the general public, some RPG/RTS hardcore fans have complained about his design decisions. It's understandable that different people have different standards by which they judge the value of a game.
It sold well, but that's only a good test of success for the bean counters. Black & White sold really well, too, but a lot of people hated that game. The same thing with Dungeon Siege because of it's lack of interactivity. I remember checking the comments from gamers on various sites about this title. The one thing I saw was a lot of priase the first week it was out, then there was a lot of criticism about how dull the game was after that.
Commercial successs to the general public is only a truly good thing if people actually liked the title if you intend to make more than just that one title. If it sells well, but the majority of people didn't like it, or thought it was dull and boring, that means you certainly can't make an expansion pack because there's no interest there. It also means that if there's a sequel, you're going to have to sell it based on fixing what everyone didn't like about it rather than going the
More Of The Same route.
Personally, I think micromanagement and "button pushing" is boring, so for me, I rather enjoyed the autopilot nature of the game. If you were to play a D&D dice game, the fighting is by chance and based on statistics. Here, the computer just rolls the dice for you.
You want some irony? Chris Taylor once said he doesn't believe in cut scenes because if he wanted to watch something, he'd put in a DVD instead of a game.
But really, other than walking around, Dungeon Siege is just one big cut scene called a game. So, that begs the question, would Chris Taylor rather just watch a DVD than play his game?
Um, if you think that all I do all day long is play, think, and write about Quake 3, you're sorely mistaken. I rarely play Q3. My function at that site is to write articles about other games, which I find more interesting than talking about the same shooter day in and day out. Any game that lets you assume the role of a character is technically an RPG, whether or not the interface, graphics, and storyline are bogged down with micromanagement and faux history.
Incorrect. That's the poor man's definition of an "RPG". Instead, an RPG is a game that allows you to play a role in a manner you chose to play it, taking the path based on how you see your character through the world. Dungeon Siege certainly doesn't fit that definition because it's barely even a game, and the computer plays it for you.
A few things here. Taylor has been making and designing games for longer than some of you have probably been alive.
Isn't he the same age as John Romero? Let's use the same argument with John Romero then!
Furthermore, Peter Molynoux has been designing games much longer than Chris Taylor, but that didn't stop him from making Black & White. Ron Gilbert's been designing games longer than Chris Taylor as well, but that didn't stop him from screwing up Total Annihilation: Kingdoms. Richard Garriot's been doing Ultima games longer than Chris Taylor's been doing games, and there's Ultima 9 to chew on.
Need me to continue?
Give me an example of what you consider a "good" RPG. I'm curious. And no, Quake is nothing like an RPG.
Here's the part where I throw your definition of an RPG back in your face!
In Quake, you assume the role of a space marine battling the various forces of Shub all over the slipgate network, so by your definition, it's an RPG.
See the problem with your definition now?
It is possible to die by not learning the play mechanics, so while you may feel that the game plays itself, it really doesn't. But yes, it's definitely simpler to get immersed in for the average gamer. It's nothing what you might consider hardcore.
It's only possible to die if you don't watch your health bar and don't hit that
DRINK TEH HEALTH button when it gets low. Hitting one button every now and then isn't exactly marvelous game play. It's fairly on par with Whack-A-Mole, only Whack-A-Mole provides a challenge because you don't know which mole to whack until it pops up, and there's nine of them.
You're talking about crack addict rat mechanics here. Even a rat knows to hit that one button to get the pellet of crack when he needs his fix.
I'll be the first to admit, I'm not an authority on the myriads of RPG or RTS games out there, other than brief exposure to a few games. I do know a thing or two about design from working in software development and quality assurance, as well as reading up on theory.
Perhaps it's time to hit the books again.
Designing a game to a niche audience, while noble in the fact that risks and independent decisions are made in sacrifice to marketing, the fact remains that you will sell to a smaller audience. There simply is no way that he could pay his staff for years of development costs if they did not sell many copies. What's my point? Like Chris said, he wanted to market to all types of players. Sure, the more experienced and educated RPG fans would be turned off, but the majority of Wal-Mart moms picking up games for their kids would not, so the sacrifice was made. Why do you think the Sims is the best selling game of all time? And no, I don't play the Sims, so please don't go there.
Probably because The Sims is actually an involving game. There's lots and lots of options to do in that game, depending on your career choice, what food to pick, managing your money, building a house, furnishing the house, and so on. You're defending a game with only four ways of playing it where the computer does all the fun stuff for you with a game that has thousands of choices about nearly everything and then asking "why?" It's rather silly, don't you think?
And next time, please post your feedback at the end of the article if you'd like to inform either Mr. Taylor, or myself, of what others in the community have on their mind. Just try to be a little more polite.
I'm not really interested in informing Chris Taylor about CRPGs. If he wants to get informed, he can play Fallout.
...........Quake is more of an RPG :wink:
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