Editorial 2004: The Year in Review

[Vault Dweller]

a little diversion from VD and Volourn's love slap feast: did Dues Ex 2 came out this year? Or everyone is trying so hard to forget it?

That was 2003 I believe.

then there's Fable. while technically a console game, it did generate alot of hot air and our "Fable" thread is still ongoing (page 16 the last i looked).

I'd hate to play this crap just to be able to review it and mention it in the article.

we have little to look forward to next year, and none to get excited about. Witcher and Gothic 3 are the only ones that have potential to pleasantly surprise me.

Well, there is KOTOR 2 - I still hope that MCA wrote something decent, then there is Geneforge 3; I'm still waiting for that Silent Storm expansion, Power of Law, and a few other games. Hopefully the first Flagship game would be out in 2005 as well.

 

[Whipporowill]

Then there's the combat RPG of 2004, possibly the sequel to Divine Divinty (not Beyond Divinity, mind you), Dungeon Siege 2, Sacred Underworld (while just an expansion) and I'd hazard a guess we might see Avernum 4. I'm sure we'll see a couple of surprises as well as delays.

Something about 2005 smells a little too much action though. Sigh.

 

[Volourn]

"Taking the license from its creators is unethical, no matter how you look at it."

Troika didn't create FO. Interplay did. Interplay sold the license to Betehsda. Stop making up balony and passing it off as cheese.


"They can do whatever they want, but they still have to sell the game, so they won't."

This is BIOware. they won Dveloper of the Year without making a game. I honestly think they worry too much about the so called masses; because obviously the masses will buy what they will sell. No matter what. As long as their games continue to be "fun"; I seriosuly doubt the "masses" will stop buying them because Bioware threw a curve ball by twisting what a 'dwarf" is. R00fles!


"Well, by golly, if you are so fucking creative that you can invent a tall, lean, water raft dwelling race, I hope you can come up with a new name too."

Why? Maybe this 'tall, lean, water raft dwelling race' have beards and are hard workers. And, they love booze See, it's not your streoetypical dwarf; but still a 'dwarf' nontheless with enough of the sameness to make the 'dwarf name' work so the Clueless tm will forgive me for the sin.


"DnD broke it by doing something else, but overall, the concept didn't change much"

You obviously know nothing about the D&D dwarf other than the vary basic prototype. Don't argue with one who has a D&D Dwarf Master's Degree (even if said degree is useless in the real world).

You lose.

 

[Jed]

Bethesda, developer of the odious Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind has sunk deeper into the abyss of mass-market friendly games (rated R for retarded), lies, and greed by snatching the sacred Fallout license from Troika's financially weak fingers, and attempting to dumb down the already dumbed down gameplay in Oblivion, the fourth chapter in the Elder Scrolls series.

Oh! Poor Troika!

Another trip down memory lane:

Now, the fact is, this news is just that.... NEWS. I have known about this for some time now, and I have been excited about it since the deal was still in the making. I AM a fan of FO. Who better to have working on a game than a FAN.... someone who knows the game, knows what it's about, knows the mood, knows the setting and atmosphere.

The original developers, maybe?

@The Dwarf "Debate": Once again Volourn has entirely missed the point. The issue is not Bio creating something new and calling it a "dwarf," it's Bio pretending to create something new, but actually just calling a dwarf by some other name. Same dreck, new paint job. All in a days work for the creators of the next BLOCKBUSTER RPG!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Troika didn't create FO. Interplay did. Interplay sold the license to Betehsda. Stop making up balony and passing it off as cheese.

Not AGAIN!!!! Interplay didn't create anything by it fucking self. People who worked for Iply did. Well, these people are the creators of the setting, it was their vision, and nobody can follow that vision (not like anyone is going to) better than them. That's what I meant, and your trolling ass knows it.

This is BIOware. they won Dveloper of the Year without making a game. I honestly think they worry too much about the so called masses; because obviously the masses will buy what they will sell. No matter what.

Masses are stupid and irrational. They've been known to turn on those they worshipped days ago. Bio's caution is justified.

Why? Maybe this 'tall, lean, water raft dwelling race' have beards and are hard workers. And, they love booze See, it's not your streoetypical dwarf; but still a 'dwarf' nontheless with enough of the sameness to make the 'dwarf name' work so the Clueless tm will forgive me for the sin.

No, they won't. They aren't called Cluless for nothing, you know.

You obviously know nothing about the D&D dwarf other than the vary basic prototype. Don't argue with one who has a D&D Dwarf Master's Degree (even if said degree is useless in the real world).

Huh? You have a Dwarven Pedigree? Far out!
Anyway, enlighten me, please.

 

[Volourn]

I'll ignore the Jedish troll, and continue on with the discussion.


"Not AGAIN!!!! Interplay didn't create anything by it fucking self. People who worked for Iply did. Well, these people are the creators of the setting, it was their vision, and nobody can follow that vision (not like anyone is going to) better than them. That's what I meant, and your trolling ass knows it."

Flatter me all you want; the facts speak for themselves. Troika did not even exist when Fo was amde so it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to have made it. Also, last i chekced, theya re not the only company with former FOers on staff. Afterall, tens of people who worked on FO work elswhere. Nice try though in your lame attempt to give ALL the credit to a company that didn't exist way back when. Interplay and their Role-playing division aka Black Isle Stuoids prior to actually garnering the name made FO. Period. This is an undisputable fact. Don't argue the unarguable.


"Masses are stupid and irrational. They've been known to turn on those they worshipped days ago. Bio's caution is justified."

Yes, and no.


"Huh? You have a Dwarven Pedigree? Far out!
Anyway, enlighten me, please."

Why? Such knowledge is too much for a Layman like yourself. Just keep beleiveing in the typical dwarf. We Dwarf Scholars know different.

 

[Mendoza]

The Dwarf "Debate": Once again Volourn has entirely missed the point. The issue is not Bio creating something new and calling it a "dwarf," it's Bio pretending to create something new, but actually just calling a dwarf by some other name. Same dreck, new paint job. All in a days work for the creators of the next BLOCKBUSTER RPG!

No, Bio take a preexisting concept and alter it, and then tell us that they've taken a preexisting concept and altered it. I don't know how it'll turn out, but they've never claimed (or even suggested) that they've created some radically unique and spectacularly great dwarf or magic system. You're just twisting their words to fit your own opinions.

Bio have a pretty impressive hype machine, but the hype isn't coming out the mouths of the likes of David Gaider trying to explain as clearly as possible how stuff in DA is, especially given that they're still working it out.

 

[Volourn]

Mendoza wins.

 

[Transcendent One]

OMG Volourn is arcane!

In any case, both VD and Volourn suck.

And Troika didn't make Fallout.

And Bio sucks.

Kthnxbye.

 

[Stark]

Well, there is KOTOR 2 - I still hope that MCA wrote something decent, then there is Geneforge 3; I'm still waiting for that Silent Storm expansion, Power of Law, and a few other games. Hopefully the first Flagship game would be out in 2005 as well.

there's the game you're making as well. (I don't recall if you ever told us the name) I did remember you said it might be out next year.

Volourn, aren't you and a bunch of folks making a fallout game too? is it still alive?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Troika did not even exist when Fo was amde so it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to have made it. Also, last i chekced, theya re not the only company with former FOers on staff. Afterall, tens of people who worked on FO work elswhere.

I said, and let's read it together: cre-a-tors of the set-ting. Not the guys who made Fallout, not the company who made Fallout, not even the creators of the entire game, but the creators of the setting. Am I getting through here?

Nice try though in your lame attempt to give ALL the credit to a company that didn't exist way back when.

Nice demonstration of insufficient reading skills.

Interplay and their Role-playing division aka Black Isle Stuoids prior to actually garnering the name made FO. Period. This is an undisputable fact. Don't argue the unarguable.

Here is another fact: The sun is shiny. Both this and the fact you stated have zero relevance to this discussion.

Why? Such knowledge is too much for a Layman like yourself. Just keep beleiveing in the typical dwarf. We Dwarf Scholars know different.

It looks like dwarf scholars are full of shit. That is the fact that DnD didn't cover well.

 

[Vault Dweller]

there's the game you're making as well.

Well, it would be too presumptuous of me to recommend people my own game.

I don't recall if you ever told us the name

I didn't yet. Everything will be announced within a few months: screenshots, name, details, art, site, etc. A lot of work.

I did remember you said it might be out next year.

Definitely next year.

 

[DemonKing]

Unlike you, I live in the real world.

Your post count says different... :wink:

Frankly I thought the Year in Review here was a much more amusing and worthwhile read than a lot of the dross bantered around the internet and a reasonably accurate reflection of the pathetic state of the CRPG market (although a few less handjobs to Spiderweb might be in order).

 

[Volourn]

"Your post count says different... "

R00fles!

VD: Stop being full of shit. Interplay created the FO setting. Not Troika. Period.


"Volourn, aren't you and a bunch of folks making a fallout game too? is it still alive?"

I gace them my resignation awhile back. They're still working on it I presume. It'll probably be better with me not working on it, anyways, since I'm just a BIO fanboy.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

"VD: Stop being full of shit. Interplay created the FO setting. Not Troika. Period.

That's one of the dumbest things you've ever said, Volourn. Interplay may own the rights to Fallout, but that's hardly the same as creating it.

 

[Dan]

And even if you want to stick to semantics. BIS made Fallout.
Which of course doesn't mean a hell lot if the people that made it left (Like the Troika people).

 

[Whipporowill]

BIS didn't make Fallout, they didn't exist yet. Someone should do a Fallout FAQ or something... come to think of it, someone probably already has.

 

[Dan]

BIS didn't make Fallout, they didn't exist yet. Someone should do a Fallout FAQ or something... come to think of it, someone probably already has.

Ah right, BIS were around only at the time of Fallout 2. It doesn't change much though if the people left.

 

[Volourn]

"That's one of the dumbest things you've ever said, Volourn. Interplay may own the rights to Fallout, but that's hardly the same as creating it."

This is one of the dumbest things you've said Saint and youa re usuaully one of the smart ones. Interplay created it. Period. Their employees created it with their money hence Interplay created it. Period. It sure as heck wasn't Troika which only has SOME of the creators. There's also Obsidian who had a helping hand due to some of thier employees. And, not to mention, all the others who had a hand in FO's creation.

It's so sad how people ignore Brian Fargo's contributions to fallout. I guess his new company Exile created Fallout too. R00fles!

Bottom line - hate them or like them - Interplay created Fallout.


"BIS didn't make Fallout, they didn't exist yet. "

The division that was/is known as BIS surely did. They just hadn't gotten a fancy name yet.

 

[Vault Dweller]

although a few less handjobs to Spiderweb might be in order.

While I don't think that referring to Spiderweb games as "quality RPG entertainment" qualifies as a handjob, the point is that Spiderweb consistently delivers good games (for those who can handle the graphics), and these games offer what most of us value in RPGs. What's not to like?

 

[Spazmo]

Yeah, criticizing us for being too easy on ToEE or Arcanum is one thing, but there's really no question that Spiderweb Games are some of the best RPGs seen in years.

 

[Vault Dweller]

VD: Stop being full of shit. Interplay created the FO setting. Not Troika. Period.
....

Interplay created it. Period. Their employees created it with their money hence Interplay created it. Period. It sure as heck wasn't Troika which only has SOME of the creators. There's also Obsidian who had a helping hand due to some of thier employees. And, not to mention, all the others who had a hand in FO's creation.

It's so sad how people ignore Brian Fargo's contributions to fallout. I guess his new company Exile created Fallout too. R00fles!

Bottom line - hate them or like them - Interplay created Fallout.

First, what a load of crap. Second, once again: creators of the setting. THE SETTING. Not the engine, not the art, not the sound, not animations, not even the char system (half of that was done by Troika's founders, but it's not the point now), but the setting.

Interplay does own the right, just like Sierra technically owns Arcanum, but there are people who created the setting, and they are the ones who should have gotten the license, because it's very fucking clear (FO2, FOT, FOBOS, Beth FO3- survivial horror) that other people have very different ideas (read as "have no fucking clue") and want to go into different directions (read as "want to make an action game or a gangster game or add some talking animals or something equally stupid"). These new ideas might be good and interesting (if you are retarded), but they are fucking up the existing setting and existing ideas. Needles to say, it was the original Fallout, the original setting, the original ideas that made the license valuable.

 

[Jed]

Spaz, VD, when are you guys gonna stop acknowledging Volourn? You can't argue with her, it's like trying to argue with the wind.

 

[Balor]

I hate to interrupt, put I'd say it's a pure matter of semantics. Interplay FUNDED the creation of Fols... like, let's put it this way - I want to get myself a house. I buy some raw materials, hire some woodworkers, and they get to work - my only job is only to oversee - in case they'll drink on the job . So, it's done. I've not driven a single nail - but if not for me - there would be no house. Woodworkers are just payed labor... however, making quility games is MUCH trickier business then building houses. It's more akin (when it comes to RPGs, in particular) to writing books. So, I write a book, I take it to editor, then to publisher, who in turn sells it out. He may get all the rights for the book - but does it mean that it's HIM who wrote it? Most sertainly not - the authors will be printed on the cover in bold, and the publisher - at best somewhere below.
I hope I've made things clearer, not vice versa

 

[Volourn]

"What's not to like?"

Let me get started with the last...

Big empty maps.

NPCs that are simply there adding nothing ot the game experience.

One of the most simple, most boring, crappy turn based combat games ever. Only POR2 is worse from what I've seen.

Believe me, graphics are number 97.5 on my list of concerns for SW games. They pretty much have no soul - kinda reminds me of ES series. The only difference is that it's turn base combat so its sins are instantly forgiveable by the 'Codex.


As for the Interplay-Troika FO thging. Keep crying; but Interplay created the setting, the game, the characters. Everything. Take your lips of Tim Cain's ass for a sec.