Preview Karma and using action points in Fallout 3

[DarkUnderlord]

Tags: Fallout 3

Another round of Fallout 3 previews over at NMA. <a href="http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=53936">Here's one from WorthPlaying</a>:
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<blockquote>All this scavenging comes at a price. When exploring, you'll find certain items or doors marked in red, and if you take those items or pick those locks, your Karma will drop, and you'll end up ticking off a lot of people. One unfortunate foray into the Children of the Atom's stronghold left me faced with an entire group of angry people who were out for my blood. To make matters worse, every item I took or door I opened dropped my Karma, and once the Children of the Atom got angry at me, fighting back also dropped my Karma further. It's entirely possible to play Fallout 3 as some sort of homicidal maniac, but don't expect to do so without anyone calling you on it.
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For those of us of the less violent persuasion, Fallout 3 includes plenty of people to talk to. Conversations take place in a fairly simple menu-driven system, where you pick your choice and the character responds. The twist is that not all of your choices are available at all times, and certain conversation choices are only available to certain characters. Your skills will also influence the success rate of conversations; a character with high Charisma and Speech skills may be able to charm information out of a normally uptight individual, and those with a high intelligence may notice something that less clever characters don't. If you're discussing explosives, having a high Explosive skill will make it more likely that folks will believe you. Even certain perks influence your choices. The Lady Killer perk, for example, gives you a bonus for talking to female characters and also provides a couple of conversation choices that wouldn't normally be available. If you're the kind of gamer who just wants to get back to the shooting, you can ignore most of these conversation trees and focus on the smashing, but it might come back to haunt you later.</blockquote>
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Why can't people just get angry with you because they find you in an area you don't belong, as opposed to mystically knowing you opened the wrong door or stole their cutlery?
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<a href="http://www.gamingtarget.com/article.php?artid=8854">Now for some stuff on VATS from Gaming Target</a>:
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<blockquote>I switched to the baseball bat in my inventory menu and began beating him up in real-time mode and then trying VATS using melee attacks. With melee, the targeting covers an enemy's entire body, so there's no limb selection. You still have to be worried about using up Action Points (AP), which limit the number of attacks you can perform using VATS. AP auto-restores as you move in real-time, so when I killed the man and was startled by an aggressive cow, I had to do a lot of running backwards. That way, I could keep moving so the cow wouldn't trample me to death and keep increasing my AP to target her through VATS until she tipped over for the final time.</blockquote>
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That's the same trick I used to use in... That game I can't remember. GamingTarget also mentions knocking guns out of hands with VATS and stepping in toxic water. If you want some more previews, <a href="http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43606">read NMA's news item</a>. I'm not linking that lot again.
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Courtesy of <a href="http://www.nma-fallout.com">NMA</a>

 

[Murk]

so action points only matter when using VATS?

If it's a real time twitch-reflex combat system, will stats even matter?

 

[kingcomrade]

Running backwards from an enemy while waiting for your AP meter to recharge so you can use the imbalanced VATS attacks is probably pretty immersive. It fits in with Fallout's retro-futuristic sardonic motif.

 

[MetalCraze]

I like how Beth cares about even the dumbest of the dumb retards. Marking things that will drop your karma in red, because poor retards won't know otherwise that picking the lock in front of the NPC is wrong. That's a new low, congratulations guys.

 

[Erzherzog]

That's the same trick I used to use in... That game I can't remember.

Running backwards in Oblivion so that your fatigue will rise. Lower? Whatever.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Seems like they've stupidly melded what RPGs have traditionally called "Reputation" with "Karma".

I can see how acting like a sociopath in private would alter the perception NPCs have of you. They shouldn't know that you robbed a house if no one saw you, thus attacking you. But if you're the type of guy who murders people in alleys often, you'd probably give off a vibe that makes people uncomfortable or distrust you.

 

[inwoker]

What do you guys think? Should I change my signature now?

 

[MetalCraze]

Yes, change Oblivion to Fallout 3.

 

[sabishii]

AP auto-restores as you move in real-time

Er, I do hope that doesn't mean that it only restores when you move.

What do you guys think? Should I change my signature now?

Yeah, before you jinx it and we (I) do get sucked in a black hole.

 

[Bradylama]

When most people quote other codex members the quotes aren't that great and neither is yours so I would recommend it.

To make matters worse, every item I took or door I opened dropped my Karma

I understand forced entry is bad, but it's not necessarily evil, which is what karma was supposed to reflect. If NPCs aren't supposed to know you've opened a door why should it affect your rep?

Just don't pick up anything without crouching. Like in that other game...

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

If NPCs aren't supposed to know you've opened a door why should it affect your rep?

Honestly, Karma was pretty dumb in Fallout, and the whole idea of your morality/immorality being plainly displayed on your face for all strangers to see was dumb as well. Here's a place where Bethesda had a chance to really improve....and instead they pull the omniscient shopkeepers/citizens gag again....

 

[Darth Roxor]

Sooooooo according to this article, everyone in the world seems to have a mental link between them and their stuff, so when you take something even though no one's around they automatically know it's gone from their desk and now resides in your endless pockets, and they go on telling everyone about it which makes your karma drop?
Or maybe they don't have to tell anyone about it, because of a hive-mind...

 

[Naked Ninja]

The twist is that not all of your choices are available at all times, and certain conversation choices are only available to certain characters. Your skills will also influence the success rate of conversations; a character with high Charisma and Speech skills may be able to charm information out of a normally uptight individual, and those with a high intelligence may notice something that less clever characters don't. If you're discussing explosives, having a high Explosive skill will make it more likely that folks will believe you. Even certain perks influence your choices. The Lady Killer perk, for example, gives you a bonus for talking to female characters and also provides a couple of conversation choices that wouldn't normally be available.

Focusing on the negative while ignoring something which sounds hopeful much lads? That paragraph alone shows a marked improvement from at least the philosophy behind Oblivion, ie everyone gets access to every option. I'll wait and see the actual implementation before passing final judgment but this is certainly a ray of hope.


But hey, Beth bashing is so much more fun, right? Even if this game has telepathic guards, dialogues with choices, consequences and different options for different builds would be a huge step forward.

 

[Jack_Deth]

The twist is that not all of your choices are available at all times, and certain conversation choices are only available to certain characters. Your skills will also influence the success rate of conversations; a character with high Charisma and Speech skills may be able to charm information out of a normally uptight individual, and those with a high intelligence may notice something that less clever characters don't. If you're discussing explosives, having a high Explosive skill will make it more likely that folks will believe you. Even certain perks influence your choices. The Lady Killer perk, for example, gives you a bonus for talking to female characters and also provides a couple of conversation choices that wouldn't normally be available.

Indeed, this can only be a positive thing.

 

[Texas Red]

The twist is that not all of your choices are available at all times, and certain conversation choices are only available to certain characters. Your skills will also influence the success rate of conversations; a character with high Charisma and Speech skills may be able to charm information out of a normally uptight individual, and those with a high intelligence may notice something that less clever characters don't. If you're discussing explosives, having a high Explosive skill will make it more likely that folks will believe you. Even certain perks influence your choices. The Lady Killer perk, for example, gives you a bonus for talking to female characters and also provides a couple of conversation choices that wouldn't normally be available.

Focusing on the negative while ignoring something which sounds hopeful much lads? That paragraph alone shows a marked improvement from at least the philosophy behind Oblivion, ie everyone gets access to every option. I'll wait and see the actual implementation before passing final judgment but this is certainly a ray of hope.


But hey, Beth bashing is so much more fun, right? Even if this game has telepathic guards, dialogues with choices, consequences and different options for different builds would be a huge step forward.

Nobody believes Bethesda. They scammed thousands of people with Oblivion. They could have shown some of these "dialogs" in their demos but instead gave ONLY combat. Their Kodex Kool Points are in the negative, they can't be trusted at all.

 

[inwoker]

Any game by bethsoft is shit. Until proven otherwise.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Scammed thousands of people? Projecting much?

And no shit they showed only combat. That makes for more exciting videos than text. The video previews for other RPGs such as baldurs gate and icewind dale also show mostly combat clips. The Van Buren tech demo was also 80% shots of dudes fighting other dudes.

I liked Morrowind, Oblivion was a step back but I could see they'd tried to improve on some of the criticisms of MW, Fallout 3 will show whether it is a trend or simply a bump upon the road. Sorry, I don't dismiss developers completely after 1 dud game, or Obsidian would SO be on the bottom of my list. :D

 

[MetalCraze]

NN, don't be naive. Beth promised us dialogues on a par with BG2 in Oblivion and I've even saw a video preview before the game's release of those dialogues where Todd picked a "random" NPCs on the street and showed some nice dialogues. Which never made it into the game. After that he also showed the woman that reads books, trains and shoots her dog with fireball when dog annoys her. And?
Besides you know media whores - read between the lines. They even didn't write what exactly high intelligence does. Just "oh you will notice more things". What does that mean? Example?
Besides Beth already said that intelligence doesn't affect shit.
Also skills will affect dialogues? In a Beth game? Considering how much dumbing down including the goddamn red markers for absolute retards they did.
I don't believe their shit a second.

 

[Bradylama]

HOW CAN WE TRUST THAT THE MARKERS WILL BE THERE!?

What is real? Is this the world? Who am I?

Through early morning fog I see

visions of the things to be

the pains that are withheld for me

I realize and I can see...

that suicide is painless

It brings on many changes

and I can take or leave it if I please.

I try to find a way to make

all our little joys relate

without that ever-present hate

but now I know that it's too late, and...

The game of life is hard to play

I'm gonna lose it anyway

The losing card I'll someday lay

so this is all I have to say.

The only way to win is cheat

And lay it down before I'm beat

and to another give my seat

for that's the only painless feat.

The sword of time will pierce our skins

It doesn't hurt when it begins

But as it works its way on in

The pain grows stronger...watch it grin, but...

A brave man once requested me

to answer questions that are key

is it to be or not to be

and I replied 'oh why ask me?'

'Cause suicide is painless

it brings on many changes

and I can take or leave it if I please.

...and you can do the same thing if you please.

 

[pkt-zer0]

Focusing on the negative while ignoring something which sounds hopeful much lads?

Skills other than speech affecting dialogue has been known for some time. (and remember what using the speech looks like now...) Perks affecting it is new, though it would've made more sense if it was a trait. As it is you'll just pick it up next time you level to get the bonus dialogue options if needed.

But hey, Beth bashing is so much more fun, right? Even if this game has telepathic guards, dialogues with choices, consequences and different options for different builds would be a huge step forward.

Huge step forward for Bethesda, not for Fallout.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Any game by bethsoft is shit. Until proven otherwise.

 

[elander_]

They have only shown combat for a game that is supposed to work with other game play styles and dialog choices. Don't you think there's something odd about this? If it was a game where linearity and heavy combat was expected i would not be surprised. So if they won't show anything besides this until release we should expect there's nothing to show.

 

[Naked Ninja]

They have only shown combat for a game that is supposed to work with other game play styles and dialog choices. Don't you think there's something odd about this?

No. Most trailers for RPGs, even ones with the amount of dialogue of say BG, show mostly combat/action/flashy lights. That Van Buren tech demo is also 80% combat. Why? Because it is more interesting to watch, in general, than static speech screens. The same applies in movie trailers.


@ Skyway : Don't be Skyway, please. It's getting really tedious, you try way, WAY too hard to be cynical badass codex guy.

I never said I trusted them. I said that sounds promising but I'll wait and see how the implementation pans out. Just as the door thing sounds negative, but I'll wait and see how it pans out.

But hey, why don't we read these previews and only pick and choose the parts that match our expectations to believe, dismissing anything that doesn't? That sounds like a great way to pass the time. Because the media is lying whores unless they say things we agree with, then it's a "nugget of truth hidden between the lines".

:facepalm:

 

[Shoelip]

The media are mostly terrible. You're not going try to debate that are you?

 

[Texas Red]

Okay, so "80% combat" for Van Buren. For FOblivion we have what, a single screenshot of a dialog?