Preview Karma and using action points in Fallout 3

[Naked Ninja]

No. But I will debate the righteousness of pointing fingers at the "media whores" when you're willing to pick and choose only the parts that match your own opinion, ignoring anything else. That's exactly the same thing that you're complaining about.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Lol @ Dark Individual. The other parts were :

10% playing around in inventory (Seeing how your char looks in different costumes : important)
5% char creation scree
5% dialogue

 

[MetalCraze]

@ Skyway : Don't be Skyway, please. It's getting really tedious, you try way, WAY too hard to be cynical badass codex guy.

Can't I be one?

I never said I trusted them. I said that sounds promising but I'll wait and see how the implementation pans out. Just as the door thing sounds negative, but I'll wait and see how it pans out.

I don't think that tons of previews and several videos weren't enough to pass judgement.

But hey, why don't we read these previews and only pick and choose the parts that match our expectations to believe, dismissing anything that doesn't? That sounds like a great way to pass the time. Because the media is lying whores unless they say things we agree with, then it's a "nugget of truth hidden between the lines".

:facepalm:

Because it is not the first time profeshunul journalists say that something is good there and in the final game of Beth it's either missing or in a pretty bad state.
Or will Beth and media suddenly become all good and white and fluffy and start to respect gamers (yes all gamers. They lie to everyone, it's just that fanbois don't care how many times they will shove lies down their throats)?
Damn and you pretty well know that combat is not what many people wanted to see in Fallout 3 videos. And Beth knows it too. Besides even combat was shitty. It's not just no videos with roleplaying - there are no screenshots and even no examples of dialogues from Beth except very shitty "nice hat calamity jane" ones.

 

[Texas Red]

No. But I will debate the righteousness of pointing fingers at the "media whores" when you're willing to pick and choose only the parts that match your own opinion, ignoring anything else. That's exactly the same thing that you're complaining about.

For the last time, there are no other parts. Bethesda has never done real dialogs, they lie and they refuse to show these supposedly option filled conversations. Past experience points to distrust.

That combat is more interesting to watch is a pretty weak argument. In interviews they have repeatedly stated/lied that they're making an RPG, a true sequel to FOs. Yet at the same time they can offer only words and no actual proof. Even with Oblivion they showed dialogs and gameplay aspects other than combat. Heck, the biggest selling point was the bookshop owner. You'd imagine that they could have at least shown *something* in their several presentation, considering they are after all marketing the game as an RPG.

 

[Longshanks]

To say that the lack of dialogue (screens, videos or information) shown is "normal" for a non hack-n-slash only RPG, is just not true. Mass Effect, The Witcher, Vamipre: Bloodlines, NWN2, Alpha Protocol, even the Sonic RPG showed more, eariler.

Whether this is because of different PR strategies, inadequate polish or completion (reason provided by Todd) or a lack of focus or quality is valid speculation.

 

[Naked Ninja]

You'd imagine that they could have at least shown *something* in their several presentation, considering they are after all marketing the game as an RPG.

I thought they had shown dialogue in their presentations to journalists? Or are you referring to the "lots of videos" that are currently circulating the net, which are all in fact pretty much the same thing, showing walking down the street a bit and shooting at people with VATS? Wow, yes, I shall now commence being stupid and extrapolate that to be representative of what it's like in town for example. Clearly that was a demo of the entire feature-set right there.

 

[MetalCraze]

So why show dialogues to journalists and not show them to.. you know... really interested people - like gamers?

 

[Naked Ninja]

Try to imagine an alternate universe, mmmkay. And in this alternate universe, an unnamed game developer has released the equivalent of one small video, the very first video of the gameplay, to the net. Because it is the beginning of it's last big PR buildup, the buildup during which they will reveal more and more of the game so that excitement peaks right as they are about to release the game. Like they did with Obl...another unnamed game.


Try to get a grip and imagine that they might, I dunno, be introducing one feature at a time? This video is obviously about VATs. And what was the last video for AoD? Combat only?!?!?!?! VD LIED TO US, AOD IS ONLY ABOUT THE COMBATS!!!!!

Or do you think Beth doesn't know how to pace it's PR?

 

[MetalCraze]

Apparently VD never posted examples with dialogues. Not a single one
And in that alternative universe all previous Beth games with extremely poor writing and piss poor "dialogues" never came out and Emil Pagliarulo never was a writer on the par with his "dialogues"

You just happen to miss one thing. Beth was never able to make at least remotely good dialogues and they even lied about them. If it was f.e. Blizzard who were making Fallout3 I would've had more belief.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I never said I trusted them. I said that sounds promising but I'll wait and see how the implementation pans out. Just as the door thing sounds negative, but I'll wait and see how it pans out.

So you agree with Skyway but you're whinging about it anyway?

But hey, why don't we read these previews and only pick and choose the parts that match our expectations to believe, dismissing anything that doesn't?

As opposed to reading previews, ignoring the 90% crap (teddy bear launchers et al) and picking and choosing only the tiny parts that match our position that "it'll be different this time"? While at the same time saying we don't believe it will be better... Right.

 

[Naked Ninja]

"All previous Beth games"? You mean Oblivion right? Cause I liked Morrowind. So 1 game then.

Uh-huh. Still trying too hard.

VD has posted only screens and written examples of dialogue, not videos. Since this is an alternate universe lets pretend I've made up my mind not to believe him, thus, unless there is video proof I'm going to claim that's just his lying PR department promising good dialogue or using photoshop.

 

[MetalCraze]

Morrowind had shitty writing and the same "dialogues" as Oblivion, only more.
So yes I'm trying too hard.

I'm not asking for a video proof of dialogues. I'm asking for mere example. Not even for screenshots. But for mere written example that will show actual dialogues.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Yes, yes you are.

So you agree with Skyway but you're whinging about it anyway?

No. Read harder, you seem to be able to pick up all these things between the lines in mainstream Fallout previews, I know you can figure it out if you try.

As opposed to reading previews, ignoring the 90% crap (teddy bear launchers et al) and picking and choosing only the tiny parts that match our position that "it'll be different this time"? While at the same time saying we don't believe it will be better... Right.

If is has good dialogues with choices and consequences then do you really give a fuck about some minor quirk like being able to kill people with high velocity stuffed animals? Holy nitpicking batman!

 

[Longshanks]

I think most understand that the first video was about showing off VATS, ridiculous gore and combat in general. However, there has also been an almost total lack of dialogue information in any other form. This is a game that is only a few months from release, most RPGs that have extensive dialogue would have shown much or at least some of it by now (let's use the AOD comparison again ).

Also, complaints about the extremity of the action in the gameplay videos are quite fair. It was more extreme than many FPSs (Farcry 2 for example). The video(s) are not that small (haven't checked, but I'd say there was upwards of 10-15 minutes of gameplay). This was not a small teaser of footage early in development, this is a game due out in just a few months. It is not entirely unreasonable to criticise the FPS nature of them, the lack of attention to atmosphere or roleplaying elements.

This does not mean that the dialogue or roleplaying elements will be terrible, just that we've been given precious little information on them. I'm sure we will see something before release, but most comparable games show more, earlier. Again, potential customers are free to speculate on why this may be.

 

[Jedi_Learner]

What is this, the only screenshot from Bethesda's Fallout that shows player responses?

 

[DarkUnderlord]

VD has posted only screens and written examples of dialogue, not videos. Since this is an alternate universe lets pretend I've made up my mind not to believe him, thus, unless there is video proof I'm going to claim that's just his lying PR department promising good dialogue or using photoshop.

There's a reasonable expectation that we can trust VD. We've seen several dialogue screens and he doesn't have a track record of lying his tits off. Bethesda on the other hand, did pretty much do themselves in with Oblivion. The whole Radiant AI thing (people stare at walls), the setting the dog on fire episode (which was mostly scripted and not Radiant at all), the better writing that was promised in Oblivion (it was promised to be better than Morrowind), along with everything else. This is from people who reckon they approached that level of high dialogue in Oblivion.

Then there's the fact that 90% of what they've shown about Fallout 3 looks piss-poor. You even admitted yourself in this thread that "the door thing sounds negative". Couple a string of negative sounding items together with a track record of negativity and why should we believe Bethesda? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

If is has good dialogues with choices and consequences then do you really give a fuck about some minor quirk like being able to kill people with high velocity stuffed animals? Holy nitpicking batman!

Speaking of someone who's trying too hard... That's called an example. The teddy bears is one of a number of things that's been picked at. Music has been criticised by several reviews, the open-ness of the world has been questioned and the entire setting has been mentioned as being a poor imitation of the original Fallouts. Then there's the radiation that still exists in all the food and water and has been there for 200 years after the bombs dropped, while yet you can detonate a nuclear weapon standing two feet away from it and not suffer any radiation damage at all, in fact with the radiation even dispersing within seconds. Plus the "200 endings" which turned out to be Bethesda's dodgy attempt at mathematics. These aren't examples of Bethesda getting it right.

 

[Helton]

"All previous Beth games"? You mean Oblivion right? Cause I liked Morrowind. So 1 game then.

You liked Morrowind's dialogue?

Yes, yes you are.

Lol. Now we're inventing other people's thoughts so we can feel more correct arguing against them. Love your style, NN.

 

[Chefe]

Screw dialogs. I'm still waiting for the dynamic soft shadows on ribcages and other miscellaneous items that was promised (and demo'd) in Oblivion.

 

[Black]

That Van Buren tech demo is also 80% combat.

i c wut u did thar

No. Most trailers for RPGs, even ones with the amount of dialogue of say BG, show mostly combat/action/flashy lights.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ghzIeZtSyJs

And the excuse "others do it" isn't really good.

 

[Texas Red]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ghzIeZtSyJs

Even today that looks sooo much better than the mere combat videos of FOblivion. Those RPG elements would get me to buy the game immediately. I'm not an expert on marketing but showing off only one aspect of gameplay that features several is pretty stupid.

 

[Murk]

lol @ skyway being skyway

i'd be more inclined to be all "Naked Ninja has a point" if he didn't argue for the sake of arguing.

 

[Mareus]

Troika.. *sad sigh*

 

[elander_]

Didn't Fallout had a demo? It looks a much better example than Baldurs Gate or Bloodlines. Does anyone remember it it was possible to try different skills and quest approaches?

 

[Bah]

Didn't Fallout had a demo? It looks a much better example than Baldurs Gate or Bloodlines. Does anyone remember it it was possible to try different skills and quest approaches?

its been a long time since I played that demo, but I can't even recall if there was a quest or that much talking. I do remember that I got excited about the game because it had kick ass turn based combat and I do remember enjoying my first glimpse of the gorey combat kill animations.

 

[MetalCraze]

it had at least one quest
it could be solved at least in 3 different ways.