Fallout 3D Fallouts VATS System

[Butter]

VATS is some of the worst ludonarrative dissonance out there. Give the player an unexplained superpower (it's supposedly part of the pip-boy, but other characters with pip-boys can't make use of it) just to get around how fucking bad your real time combat is.

OOOOOOOHHHHH i want super-realism alongside my ghouls my supermutants and my deathclaws. VATS has not been scientifically explained, ooooohhhh the horror.

Narrative explanation you dumb faggot. Not a single character in Vault 101 even acknowledges the existence of VATS, even though it's a superpower they apparently all have.

 

[TemplarGR]

Narrative explanation you dumb faggot. Not a single character in Vault 101 even acknowledges the existence of VATS, even though it's a superpower they apparently all have.

Dude, it is not a "super power", it is a gameplay mechanic. Do all people in the Fallout 1 and 2 universe fight in turns? Is there an explanation why radscorpions and deathclaws obey the etiquette of letting you take your time to decide an action in order to then take their own?

My God, sometimes you are so retarded, even a psychiatrist can't help you.

 

[Butter]

Narrative explanation you dumb faggot. Not a single character in Vault 101 even acknowledges the existence of VATS, even though it's a superpower they apparently all have.

Dude, it is not a "super power", it is a gameplay mechanic. Do all people in the Fallout 1 and 2 universe fight in turns? Is there an explanation why radscorpions and deathclaws obey the etiquette of letting you take your time to decide an action in order to then take their own?

My God, sometimes you are so retarded, even a psychiatrist can't help you.

I'm not asking anyone to explain why you can pause the game or load a save. I actually understand the concept of gameplay mechanics just fine. But VATS is "Vault-tec Assisted Targeting System". The implication is that this is technology available to you because of your pip-boy. Obviously this was a dumb idea on Bethesda's part, and they should've just used turn-based combat, but we got a half-assed hybrid instead.

And honestly for someone with confirmed Down Syndrome, you should know that mental retardation isn't the purview of psychiatrists. Unless you have other reasons for seeing one (court-ordered perhaps)...

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Always felt like an aimbot to make combat more console friendly (especially since the overall shooting mechanics and feel in F3/NV are hopelessly shit) rather than an organic part of the game. It was sort of amusing maybe the first 10-20 times, but then just boring and irritating while the death animations in F1/2 never get old.

It's also super bugged (infinite loops, shooting through models, shooting at obstacles) and the resource management part of it ("action points") never feels interesting. From the "immersion" and maintaining any illusion of difficulty point of view the ability to pause freely at any time and just heal and do whatever you want was definitely much worse though.

 

[undecaf]

I liked the idea behind it, but not the execution. It felt lacking as a feature.

 

[jackofshadows]

It's a horrible feature. They should've either make a proper shooter with some other crutches for console players (auto-aim or something, don't care) or come up with some more coherent regular system for every fight like phase-based from Wiz8 for instance. And this shit has dragged into FNV, jeez. I used it rarely just for lulz but can't imagine playing the whole game with it. Like waiting around the corner to gain AP back? What a joke. And to think they put crit shots exlusively into that in F4.... Fucking mess.

 

[Tigranes]

Do the people who liked FO3 VATS realise that the mode literally broke the game

Like, not in the "so fucking bad" broke, but "like a giant software bug that renders the basic calculations of the system incoherent" broke

Like, "press VATS button and nobody knows exactly how time slows down differently for you and the enemy and for the projectiles but now you shoot this guy through cover 3 times while he doesn't move and you can use it to literally win any battle if it bugs out in favourable way" broke

Maybe this is the same crowd that kills themselves with fireballs in BG2 for 80 hours and never realise friendly fire is on

Or the people who swing their lightsaber excitedly in KOTOR Normal never realising they could have gone and taken a giant shit and come back and they would have won the battle anyway

 

[deuxhero]

VATS is useless for its intended purpose (precise shots under good conditions, like hitting an enemy that's stationary and unaware of you from with a scoped rifle) are effectively impossible, but it's trivial to abuse (spaming the button alerts you to enemies). That's pretty much the yardstick for bad game design.

 

[Isak]

I gave FO76 a few tries and I liked it but I can't get over the jankiness of it.
The beta was fun though.

I think it's a fine crafting shooty thing, but judged as a Fallout game I would agree it's not as good, but I doubt there will ever be another Fallout game in the vein of 1/2/NV.
So i might as well not get upset by the new games being completely different.

Well, completely different is a bit misleading. I should say pursuing a different direction and design for the series.
Wanting to make fairly straightforwardly written games with a few choices that mostly let you have fun in a 50s retrofuture theme park with a tone more celebratory of that aesthetic and ideal than critical or sarcastic like the older titles.

I think for me VATS being missing was a huge turn off. I mean it has it but it's kneecapped.
There was some sort of strategy element I really liked in the previous games where I used VATS for everything.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

It did feel like a bit of a cheat option, but shooting on the console versions was usually so bad that it really was needed. Moreso in close quarters than long range, I think after a few yards it was completely useless anyway.

 

[Silverfish]

Depending on your weapon of choice, VATS was a godsend. Fighting in real time, reloading the hunting rifle took longer than most actual wars.

 

[AW8]

New Vegas was my first Fallout and I just found VATS to be pointless and dumb, so I never used it. It doesn't blend with the real-time FPS combat at all, and your AP is so low that you can barely make use of it normally. And when you have a 70% chance to hit an enemy that you would have a 99% chance to hit by just aiming normally, why even bother with it?

I only used it on a melee character because the FPS melee combat is so clunky, and VATS automatically teleports you after moving targets for a guaranteed hit. VATS also doubles your melee attack damage (for some reason) and allows you to perform powerful VATS attacks. Still, even then it's just bandaid in lieu of a good melee system.

Haven't played Fallout 3 but I heard the New Vegas version was nerfed a lot in comparison. I think I've used VATS in Fallout 4 once or twice - it's especially pointless in that game since the shooting gameplay was improved. I've played Fallout 76 in two separate free periods but it never even occured to me to activate VATS.

Since they've made AP useful for other things (sprinting, weapon bashing/power attacking, steadying aim) Bethesda should just embrace that they are making shooters and remove VATS in their next Fallout game. Implement a Bullet Time mechanic instead and you'll have a way to make precision shots that actually mixes well with normal gameplay.

 

[RK47]

In Fallout 4 I only used VATS when I needed time to assess threats.
Especially on the rare times, they had a team of gunners with 3 assault rifles, grenades, and a missile launcher.
But it's so rare, it might as well not happen. Besides, that's what hotkeyed Jet is for. Slow time for 10 sec. With perks, you can make it go as high as 33 seconds.

There's also the rare occasional 'fuck you I have a Fatman' NPC in some places that instantly kill you on Survival.
Always saved the VATS crit in Fallout 4 for that. But you either put points in luck perks or VATS is just a sub-optimal gimmick.

Personally, it's not needed if you play with mouse & a keyboard.
But some people like to play VATS build. It's really janky and cheap way to ID threats that are faraway/hiding behind cover. But at the late game, I installed a targeting computer on my Power Armor helmet and that problem went away completely.

The only part I'm puzzled with is having a Jetpack Power Armor that uses AP to propel you upwards.
What the hell? This thing is powered by fusion cores, so why not just drain fusion cores instead?

 

[urmom]

I didn't use VATS when playing FNV. I don't recall how VATS works.

 

[Van-d-all]

It was a honest attempt to translate the mechanic into 3d RT, but it ended up ridiculous just like RT in Tactics.

 

[MWaser]

Absolutely shitty mechanic that completely imbalances the game. About half of the time or more you can get 99% hit chance on the head (or at least the exact same chance as for the torso), with the AP cost of using it for some weapons being ridiculously low, you can blow away fights before they even begin. Enter a room, see a Raider, stop time, unload 2 bullets in his head in an instant without even having to aim because he just got VATS'd. It's basically an anime-tier superpower that you are given, and the games are not at all balanced around it. It's just a crutch to get around the shitty gunplay.

As far as I'm concerned, the gunplay in Fallout: NV is functional enough to play without the OP cheat mode that is VATS.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

VATS were shit, they worked less like they were seemingly meant to (as a stand in for the combat system of the original games) and more like a free hit system. VATS were also necessary as the shooting, at least in Fallout 3, was complete and utter shit. VATS is also hilariously unbalanced, somehow ever more unbalanced than the description of being a free hit system might lead you to believe. One of the funnier things you can do with it is teleport across rooms to punch people with VATS.


What I always found odd about how bad VATS was in Fallout 3 is it's not exactly like something similar to it hasn't been done before. Like i haven't played them since they came out, but I remember liking stuff like Parasite Eve and Vagrant Story, and those games how combat system similar to what VATS is trying to be...only they don't suck. Not the same thing they were going for with VATS, but there is something kind of funny about Valkyria Chronicles coming out the exact same year as Fallout 3; would definitely be interesting to see a Fallout with a combat system like that.

 

[TemplarGR]

What I always found odd about how bad VATS was in Fallout 3 is it's not exactly like something similar to it hasn't been done before. Like i haven't played them since they came out, but I remember liking stuff like Parasite Eve and Vagrant Story, and those games how combat system similar to what VATS is trying to be...only they don't suck. Not the same thing they were going for with VATS, but there is something kind of funny about Valkyria Chronicles coming out the exact same year as Fallout 3; would definitely be interesting to see a Fallout with a combat system like that.

-Fallout 3 sucks

Source: JRPG Weeaboo consolefag.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

If TemplarGR thinks I'm wrong I must be right.

 

[TemplarGR]

If TemplarGR thinks I'm wrong I must be right.

The opinion of a consolefag who mostly plays japanese anime jrpgs is irrelevant. Seriously.

 

[Ash]

How to fix VATS (New Vegas):

-Nerf Vats target acquisition range. Make PER influence target acquisition range slightly. This way you cannot scan vast environments over great ranges for targets, unless you specialise in that specifically. If you've already shot a target at great range normally, or they have shot at you, then vanilla VATS target range applies.
-Reduce how much close range targets scale your accuracy. No constant 95% accuracy for the head. Make the relevant perks and stats that relate to VATS accuracy actually relevant, and reduce VATS crutch/cheap headshot status when they get close.
-Furthermore, bodyparts size influences accuracy slightly more. So torso and limbs are easier to hit than the head in most cases.
-Reduce base AP regeneration rate slightly.
-Remove or nerf passive damage resistence you get while in VATS, or make it a perk or scalable with END.
-Reduce time dilation slightly. Very slightly, say 10%.
-Increase the relevance of body part targeting. Currently it's not bad. But more could be done and I have a few ideas.
-Add other tactical vats options, e.g use stimpack (high AP cost), switch to and use pre-specified melee weapon (normal AP cost), manual reload, backpedal 1m while firing if space (moderate AP cost, accuracy reduction over just standing and shooting).

These changes won't revolutionise anything, but they'd make it more tactical, less overpowered, more cohesive with all the relevant RPG systems that influence vats.

New Vegas already improved VATS over FO3 slightly, but Sawyer should have done more. For example, in FO3 the damage reduction bonus you recieved in VATS was 90%, reduced to 25% in New Vegas.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

The only way I can see VATS truely being fixed is if the AP system works during both real-time and in VATS like some kind of first person version of what Tactics did. Just have VATS work like a true turn-based system, and have the real-time combat use AP similar to or just like it does in Tactics.

Either that or just roll with the idea of VATS actually being some kind of Vault-Tec brand Assisted Targeting System. Divorce the system from character stats, and have its functionalities like targeting range, accuracy, and other things be attachable modifiable parts in your Pip-Boy or something. Have there be only so much power it can use so you can't build the system too overpowered.

 

[Max Damage]

Didn't like VATS in 3 or New Vegas for many reasons, 2 biggest of them being: it often results in MORE missed shots at point blank distance because targeting is retarded, and it distorts time however it wants. I can't remember worse implementation of slow mode in any video game. I played on PC so no reason to use this abomination, thankfully.

 

[Semiurge]

No dick shots

 

[JarlFrank]

VATS is some of the worst ludonarrative dissonance out there. Give the player an unexplained superpower (it's supposedly part of the pip-boy, but other characters with pip-boys can't make use of it) just to get around how fucking bad your real time combat is.

OOOOOOOHHHHH i want super-realism alongside my ghouls my supermutants and my deathclaws. VATS has not been scientifically explained, ooooohhhh the horror.

This is a fucking retarded argument. It's like those SJWs going "Oooooh you can accept dragons in a fantasy world but then you argue for stat differences between male and female characters! It's a fantasy world, the genders should be equal!!" I had exactly that discussion with a retard recently.

I also remember the actor of the fat guy in Game of Thrones saying in an interview, "People complained that it was unrealistic that I stayed fat throughout the entire show, even when supplies were low and I was hiking and fighting 24/7. So I said, what, you people can accept dragons but you can't accept a fat guy staying fat despite exercising?"

This is a peak retard argument because having fantasy elements doesn't mean anything goes. Every fantasy element must be logically explained within the framework of a setting. Deathclaws are explained as mutated animals. Supermutants are explained with the FEV virus as a genetic experiment to create superhumans (but considering those experiments were conducted on the other fucking side of the US, it makes no sense for them to be present in Fallout 3).