Game News Bloodlines update #12

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Troika Games; Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

It's time for another <a href=http://www.vampirebloodlines.com>Bloodlines</a>' <a href=http://vnboards.ign.com/Bloodlines_Inn/b22439/70600725/?0>update</a>. This one deals with post E3 questions.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote><i>How much are clan weaknesses (Torrie fasciniation, Brujah fury, Ventrue tastes) going to come into play? We see the Malkavian dialogue and the Nosferatu visages. But how will the other less obvious disadvantages be implemented?</i>
<br>
<br>
We've tried to incorporate the clan weaknesses into the gameplay without making them to obtrusive to the player, but enough to change your game experience. For instance, the Brujah has a greater chance to frenzy than other clans, the Ventrue only get half blood from feeding on non- Blue Bloods (and may even throw up) and can't feed on rats, and the Malkavian and Nosferatu are fairly obvious as you've pointed out. We're still trying out some different ideas for some of the more obscure ones which we can fill you in on later.
<br>
<br>
<i>During the E3 demo it appeared that Troika chose to using a "bar" for health and disciplines vs. the typical 7 levels of health and 5 dots for powers. What prompted this change and will each discipline still have 5 individual levels? </i>
<br>
<br>
Each discipline still has 5 levels, we've just changed the look of the interface. Your blood vial is still broken into sections (represented by ticks) to indicate how much you have left inyour blood pool. <u>We've been forced to move away from the 7 levels of health because we've found that in real time combat situations you get hit alot more than in turn based.</u> For example, let's say I've decided to take cover behind some crates to avoid some enemies firing at me. In real time, I decide to take cover, take some hits, run towards cover, take some more hits, finally make it to cover. In turn based I say "I'm taking cover behind these crates" and you do. If we had stayed with the 7 levels we would have had to subdivide it multiple times anyway, so that NPCs weren't dealing out a minimum of one level of damage every time they hit you. </blockquote>Another system is falling apart in RT
<br>
<br>
<br>
Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.rpgdot.com">RPG Dot</A>

 

[Volourn]

Wasn't it Mr. Cain who made it clear they would try not to do what other companies have done? i guess they're not trying very hard.

 

[space captain]

If any of you have actually played the ORIGINAL pen and paper version of Masquerade, you would know that the story ALWAYS comes first and the GM is encouraged to throw out all and any rules that get in the way of it... roleplaying isnt just an excercise in database management and statistical ruminations, you know

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

I have played it quite a bit and you should know that combat always comes last, at least with a good dm, so rt and a health bar are more than just changing the rules a little.

Still I'm optimistic about this game. I guess i'm just a troika fanboy, even when they get things wrong they do it better than any other company, you just know they are actually trying to make a good game.

 

[space captain]

the GM is encouraged to not even roll the dice if it gets in the way of the story... its one of the more unusual aspects of the Vampire rulebook, but its in there - in fact there is a whole chapter on it

 

[Volourn]

Huh? That's true with D&D or any RPG for that matter. The DM can forego any of the rules if it will intervere with the fun, or story. Of course, that misses the point. Troika's big fish stated quite clearly that he would never try to make a tb system into a rt ssyem as that would force him to change things too much and would hurt the system's integrity. I guess that manifesto was changed quickly. LMAO

 

[MrBrown]

I don't see how a change to the rules is automatically a negative thing.

 

[Volourn]

It isn't. I have no problem with that. It's the comments made before by Mr. cain saying he would do his damndest not to follow in BIO or BIS' footsteps and all his fanboys yelling,"You go girl!" at him. yet, now, he seems to be doing EXACTLY that. I wonder what term is used to describe that..

 

[Transcendent One]

I thought the lead designer for Bloodlines is Boyarski...

 

[Volourn]

Does it really matter who happens to be the Lead Designer? I'm sure Mr. Cain has *some* influence.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Does it really matter who happens to be the Lead Designer? I'm sure Mr. Cain has *some* influence.

Well, Vollie, doesn't the truth always matter? Boyarsky is the lead designer. So, don't spread lies, rumours, myths and innuendo LOLOLOLIPOP :twisted: .

 

[Volourn]

Who was spreading lie?. I never said who was the Lead Designer on it so how was I lying? LOL

 

[taks]

Another system is falling apart in RT

i've always felt the problems with RT combat are that the AI is so much quicker than the player, and consequently you have to rely on bad AI to make the game easy to deal with (unless you have max autopause set... but then why use RT?). TB gives everybody the same chances.

taks

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Just switch the 'and' with 'or' in my previous post and you can live happily ever after

 

[Voss]

Heh. I expected this change. 7 levels of health before you're gone? In a game that is FPSish with what looks like heavy combat? Not a chance.

Now I'm wondering how fortitude works though...

 

[taks]

Now I'm wondering how fortitude works though...

DR?

taks

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Another system is falling apart in RT

i've always felt the problems with RT combat are that the AI is so much quicker than the player, and consequently you have to rely on bad AI to make the game easy to deal with (unless you have max autopause set... but then why use RT?). TB gives everybody the same chances.

taks

That's a good point there, taks.

 

[taks]

you can probably take it even further to weigh the intelligence/experience of the player. there are a few folks running around that probably can't outthink even bad AI...

taks

 

[mr. lamat]

seven points of health... twenty points of health... eight to the power of six points of health... is there any real difference? seven was an arbitrary number to begin with so redefining it doesn't actually change the rules in any way. some people complain just to hear themselves whine.

if they had stayed with seven points in an fps my flailing aiming reticule wouldn't have come close to the mark before my ass got fragged. with this, i'll have a fighting chance, if i even have to fight. i still worry about my insanely charismatic and dexterious talker/lockpicker get his ass repeatedly handed to him in the last twenty minutes of the game... like every previous rpg on the market.

 

[Shevek]

My one big problem with this title since I saw it at the e3 before last (with what looked like a character wielding akimbo ingrams and having a boss fight against a corpse throwing sewer demon if I remember right) was that it seemed too combat heavy. In System Shock 2, it didnt take much to kill the player (at least on Hard difficulty) and that game was mostly combat. You could take more punishment in Deus Ex but avoiding run and gun tactics was still recommended unless you used up a kevlar vest and/or turned on the antiballistics aug and even then a shot to your head was always a danger. I just hope Troika makes sure to take a hint from those games and include things like locational damage and a vulnerable player/dangerous enemy to better discourage thoughtless play. If Troika goes out of thier way to support heavy combat builds, I think it might really hurt this title. And, yes, it is disheartening to see respected developers of quality turnbased titles having to make questionable design decisions to accomodate realtime play.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Wasn't it Mr. Cain who made it clear they would try not to do what other companies have done? i guess they're not trying very hard.

It was a beautiful dream but the morons who thought that ToEE was too complicated and only for DnD experts, and were to stupid to read the fucking manual, killed that dream.

It's the comments made before by Mr. cain saying he would do his damndest not to follow in BIO or BIS' footsteps and all his fanboys yelling,"You go girl!" at him

Unless I missed something, the comments you keep referrng to were said in regard to DnD, which differs a lot from Storyteller. Here is the original thread and here is a quote:

Again, I am confused. Are you suggesting that it would be better for me to invent a new system of rules, so that anyone familiar with D&D would have to learn my own new hybrid system in order to play ToEE? Now that sounds like it would bog down the player.

Doesn't say anywhere he'd never ever do that like you claim. As you usually say, stop spreading lies. :wink:

the story ALWAYS comes first...roleplaying isnt just an excercise in database management and statistical ruminations

Roleplaying isn't about following a bedtime story either

I don't see how a change to the rules is automatically a negative thing.

Depends on the change. Granted I don't know how everything is going to work out, but buffing up HPs to accomodate the RT's being-hit-a-lot feature seems kinda silly and not very immersive, at least for me.

 

[mr. lamat]

there was a part at the end of... dark sun, possibly, where the choices you made throughout the game had an impact at the end. during the final battle, if you had played nice with others, they came to help out. granted, it manifested in some nerfed d&d archers, but the idea itself was pretty good.

i'm really interested in seeing if this is a part of masquerade as well. if people like me, they should be doing my asswhupping for me. it only makes sense that someone would back thier friend up, not send him off against fourty toughs to save their kitty.

 

[Volourn]

I see, it's not okay to make a "hybrid Rt system" for D&D; but Vampire is fair game for a "hybrid RT system"? R00fles! Twist, twist away.

 

[Vault Dweller]

seven points of health... twenty points of health... eight to the power of six points of health... is there any real difference?

No, there is none. The points make sense only when compared to and vs. damage. If I know that all I can take is a max of 7 hits, then it's one thing. If I know that I can take quite a few hits and being hit often is a norm, then it's something else. Some people don't care, I do.

 

[mr. lamat]

on being hit often... you have to remember you're lugging a three dimensional rectangle through the game enviroment. it may be divided into seperate sectors, with varying damage resistance, but it's still a large piece of real estate. there's no way to get around that using the half-life two engine, which i think was a smart design choice.

if that turns out with players circle-jerking around baddies with an m-60, then we've got problems.