Editorial Planescape: Torment - Retrospective

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Tags: Black Isle Studios; Planescape: Torment

<p>RPGFan <a href="http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/planescapetorment/index.html" target="_blank">fondly take a look back</a> at everyone's favorite western JRPG.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Torment's gameplay elements weren't ignored in favor of storytelling, however. Mistaking Torment for a combat-light visual novel type game is a big error. Combat is complex, as are the game's magic spells, items, and quests. One ability has Morte the floating skull taunt a foe with a string of insults, and every time he hears an NPC utter a profane barrage of curses in dialogue with The Nameless One, the ability becomes more effective. So much detail for just one ability &ndash; that kind of industriousness is unknown today. Even enemies are more complex than they first appear. The game's answer to the sewer rat is more powerful in groups, for instance. With hive minds, cranium rats are stupid alone, but intelligent in groups &ndash; so intelligent as to be able to cast spells. Should The Nameless One come across a pair of cranium rats, he'll have no problem dispatching them. Should an entire pack appear, however, they'll start flinging abdomen-splitting lightning bolts.</p>
<p>Quest and dialogue mechanics are just as complex, requiring specific lines of questioning and careful selection of dialogue options to trigger the best experience awards and side quests. Items often become useful long after the player acquires them, and a careless inventory cleanup can cause a missed opportunity later. Equipment is well designed as well, and the pacing of the power level is superb. Every item seems to have a use, every character seems to have something to say, and every location is of importance. One gets the impression that the game has an infinite number of quests and dialogue options to offer, and that no matter what one does, the game will never reveal them all in one playthrough.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Combat complexity not detected.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Spotted at: <a href="http://www.rpgwatch.com/#15214">RPGWatch</a></p>

 

[Nex]

I must have missed this complex combat, what a fool I must be.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Combat wasn't complex, but he does cite some interesting examples.

 

[mondblut]

Torment's gameplay elements weren't ignored in favor of storytelling, however. Mistaking Torment for a combat-light visual novel type game is a big error.

ORLY?

 

[FeelTheRads]

Typical bullshit from retarded "journalists". Just copy/paste reviews and change the names where appropriate.

 

[xantrius]

Torment the best action rpg ever.

 

[ChristofferC]

Planescape Torment is dumbed down crap for consoletards. Regenerating health, respawn on death, super easy combat without any need for tactics, need I say more?

 

[Azrael the cat]

I agree that the combat wasn't complex, but at the same time think of it from a newer gamers' perspective: compare PS:T combat to Mass Effect, KoTOR Oblivion or FO3. In that regard, PS:T is comparatively complex with its 6-character-parties, need to position fighters in front of your squishies, stealth+backstab mechanics (sending your fighters to engage, while your stealthed thief positions for the backstab), decent number of spells, class-swapping, finding trainers and so on. No, I'm not saying PS:T is complex - it isn't. But if you look at later games it's a tactical masterpiece.

As for the regenerating health, no death etc: I've thought about that a few times before. It strikes me how much less annoying that stuff is when (a) the game's lore and characterisation establishes it, and (b) you don't have every fucking game that's out doing the same thing.

 

[Phelot]

Planescape Torment is dumbed down crap for consoletards. Regenerating health, respawn on death, super easy combat without any need for tactics, need I say more?

You're so clever!

The bottom line is that PST tried new stuff and had developed characters, something still lacking in most games. No matter it's shortcomings the game simply must be praised and it must be encouraged that developers TRY NEW THINGS.

I mean, consider all the old games there were! We had games about being a fucking stock broker!

Honestly, I think the worse thing to happen to games was to invention of genres, thus forcing every developer to choose from the beginning which type of game they are going to make, along with all the pre-set "must haves" for that particular style. And with the advent of these "hybrid" genres, we now see the number of genres to choose from shrinking. THey've already combined adventure/RPG/action together essentially eliminating adventure and RPGs as separate genres.

 

[Silellak]

In before mondbl--

ORLY?

--Goddamnit.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Planescape Torment is dumbed down crap for consoletards. Regenerating health, respawn on death, super easy combat without any need for tactics, need I say more?

You're so clever!

The bottom line is that PST tried new stuff and had developed characters, something still lacking in most games. No matter it's shortcomings the game simply must be praised and it must be encouraged that developers TRY NEW THINGS.

I mean, consider all the old games there were! We had games about being a fucking stock broker!

Honestly, I think the worse thing to happen to games was to invention of genres, thus forcing every developer to choose from the beginning which type of game they are going to make, along with all the pre-set "must haves" for that particular style. And with the advent of these "hybrid" genres, we now see the number of genres to choose from shrinking. THey've already combined adventure/RPG/action together essentially eliminating adventure and RPGs as separate genres.

Oh THIS! So fucking THIS! It's almost tear-worthy to think just how the 'you can make a game about anything' mentality of yesteryear has been narrowed to a mere handfull of genres. Game journalists are part of the problem, though again I think market state is a big contributor: every single company rushing to create the next big cross-platfrom mass market megahit, with no thought given to product diversity outside of ticking each of the 4-5 genre boxes. Even Spore got ruined by the need to convert an abstract and unusual game idea into recognisable minigame genres.

It guarantees lowest common denominator development. Sure, there might be folks out there that would buy a game about being a stockbroker, but the publishers are only interested in games that will sell to everybody. So you get the few genres in the middle that cross all those market segments, and even they are merging together. And in the process you lose what made the medium good to start with:-(

 

[SCO]

Jones in the fast lane forever yo!

 

[Serious_Business]

Money-making kills creativity, news at '6. Well shit, how about that

 

[mondblut]

The bottom line is that PST tried new stuff and had developed characters, something still lacking in most games. No matter it's shortcomings the game simply must be praised and it must be encouraged that developers TRY NEW THINGS.

Japs were doing this "new stuff" for 10 years before PST.

Oh, and "developed characters" is this:

 

[AlaCarcuss]

I agree that the combat wasn't complex, but at the same time think of it from a newer gamers' perspective: compare PS:T combat to Mass Effect, KoTOR Oblivion or FO3. In that regard, PS:T is comparatively complex with its 6-character-parties, need to position fighters in front of your squishies, stealth+backstab mechanics (sending your fighters to engage, while your stealthed thief positions for the backstab), decent number of spells, class-swapping, finding trainers and so on. No, I'm not saying PS:T is complex - it isn't. But if you look at later games it's a tactical masterpiece.

OMG - you just described WoW

 

[Azrael the cat]

I agree that the combat wasn't complex, but at the same time think of it from a newer gamers' perspective: compare PS:T combat to Mass Effect, KoTOR Oblivion or FO3. In that regard, PS:T is comparatively complex with its 6-character-parties, need to position fighters in front of your squishies, stealth+backstab mechanics (sending your fighters to engage, while your stealthed thief positions for the backstab), decent number of spells, class-swapping, finding trainers and so on. No, I'm not saying PS:T is complex - it isn't. But if you look at later games it's a tactical masterpiece.

OMG - you just described WoW

Uh...how is WoW similar? Anyway, what part do you disagree with - do you honestly believe that recent games are more complex than PS:T? As I said, I'm certainly not saying PS:T is complex - it certainly isn't. But games have got ever more simplistic since. It's understandable that a journalist or blogger who has only played games in the last 10 years (it's now quite a long time since the days of RoA and JA2) would think that PS:T is comparatively complex.

Or is your illiteracy so bad that you just saw 'PS:T is more complex than...' and read it as 'PS:T is complex'? In that case, keep practicing on those Run Spot Run books and once you've mastered those try the dictionary and you'll be able to answer your own question about the meaning of 'retarded'.

 

[Xor]

OMG - you just described WoW

That shouldn't be surprising - I'm fairly sure WoW borrowed from D&D among other sources when designing combat, and in D&D the best optimized parties would usually have a tank, healer, and damage dealer. The IE is based around D&D rules, so that party setup should still be a good strategy.

 

[Melcar]

PS:T had good, involving story. That's it really.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

PS:T had good, involving story. That's it really.

Yes, but what a good, involving story it was!

Combat sucked but nobody should play any rpg and expect to be blown away by hacking rats to pieces. Combat is always boring and generally just a gap between story point A and story point B.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

With hive minds, cranium rats are stupid alone, but intelligent in groups

 

[Melcar]

PS:T had good, involving story. That's it really.

Yes, but what a good, involving story it was!

Combat sucked but nobody should play any rpg and expect to be blown away by hacking rats to pieces. Combat is always boring and generally just a gap between story point A and story point B.

But does that alone make it a good game?

 

[Monocause]

Combat is complex, as are the game's magic spells, items, and quests. One ability has Morte the floating skull taunt a foe with a string of insults, and every time he hears an NPC utter a profane barrage of curses in dialogue with The Nameless One, the ability becomes more effective.

So Morte's special attack animation is a perfect example of combat complexity - you can even upgrade its damage! A spreadsheet please, I can't even imagine all the numbers and variables that must be involved.

RPGFan is apparently a moron.

 

[Phelot]

The bottom line is that PST tried new stuff and had developed characters, something still lacking in most games. No matter it's shortcomings the game simply must be praised and it must be encouraged that developers TRY NEW THINGS.

Japs were doing this "new stuff" for 10 years before PST.

Oh, and "developed characters" is this:

Yes Mondblut, we all know your PCs could be a cardboard box so long as you have your precious statistics.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Yes Mondblut, we all know your PCs could be a cardboard box so long as you have your precious statistics.

While the other side would call Halo an RPG if it was well written and it had C&C.

I certainly don't side with mondblut (especially with his views on adventure games), and I like to have good writing and C&C in games, but I would side with him against dumbshits who think those two things alone make an RPG.

 

[Phelot]

Yes Mondblut, we all know your PCs could be a cardboard box so long as you have your precious statistics.

While the other side would call Halo an RPG if it was well written and it had C&C.

I certainly don't side with mondblut (especially with his views on adventure games), and I have nothing against good writing and C&C, but I would side with him against dumbshits who think those two things alone make an RPG.

I'm not really talking about PST being a good RPG or being the archetype for RPGs, I'm just saying that it was a good game in general and that it tried something new and different. It's a shame that it got a lot of things wrong, perhaps because the story took over other gameplay elements, and as a result its not the sort of game we can still play a decade afterwards and still have fun with (unless we just want to experience the story again)

I just think it's a shame that everyone has to have one narrow opinion of what an RPG is or is not. I happen to enjoy different types of RPGs, sometimes preferring single character, party based, roguelike, hack n slash, story driven, etc etc. I don't really have a favorite.

Anyways, my point again was that PST tried something new and refreshing at the time that even today seems new and it's a shame that no one else really tries new shit anymore, just the same safe formulas over and over again.