Interview The End of the World & Future of Fallout

[Jason]

Tags: Fallout: New Vegas; J.E. Sawyer

<p>Guardian News recently caught the <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2010/oct/21/best-post-apocalyptic-games" target="_blank">post-apocalyptic bug</a> and turned to Obsidian's <strong>Josh Sawyer</strong> for a <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2010/nov/10/fallout-new-vegas-interview" target="_blank">few PA questions</a>.</p>
<blockquote>What do you think are the key elements of any post-apocalyptic story? <br /><br />The physical world in ruin is an absolute must. Even if there are pristine pockets, the world we know has to be broken apart. This can be reflected in nature: blasted trees, mutated plants, cracked earth, bizarre weather. It can most strikingly be shown through the destruction of everything humanity has created: cities in ruin, highways of empty cars, skyscrapers with every window blasted out.<br /><br />That ruin also has to extend to human society. Fallout: New Vegas shows post-2077 society at its most structured and ordered, but the Mojave Wasteland is still engulfed in chaos and warfare. Without order and under duress, human nature quickly turns very bleak. It's that grim search for light in the darkness that I think many people find compelling.</blockquote>
<p>And speaking of Fallout: New Vegas...</p>
<blockquote>How do you see the Fallout series developing after New Vegas in terms of your post-apocalyptic vision? Do you see a future in which the society devolves even further? Do you have new environments you'd like to explore? <br /><br />Given that so far the Fallout series has been pretty specific to certain parts of America, I think there are a lot of different ways to go with future titles. Despite featuring the New California Republic, Fallout 2 dealt with the idea of a human society that had gone naturalistic and tribal in an isolated area, much like the children in Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome. There could also be an examination of an even more advanced society, or a story set in a different part of the world. Many of Fallout's core values are particularly American, so certain settings could be hard, but I personally think it could be interesting to see some other locations.</blockquote>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Spotted at: <a href="http://planetfallout.gamespy.com/">Planet Briosafreak</a></p>

 

[Country_Gravy]

They should make Fallout: Islam. The only problem would be that the Middle East is already shot to hell, so there wouldn't be much change from how it looks now.

Perks could include IED maker and Rapists that blame it on the girl for showing her ankles....what sluts.

 

[MicoSelva]

That's exactly why this world has such huge potential as an MMO and why Bethesda wants the license for that so badly now.

 

[thesheeep]

Berlin!

Seriously, a post-apocalyptic Berlin setting could be heavan. Just look at some WW2 pics. Though complete destruction wouldn't be that cool. Something along the lines of HL2 would be better, IMHO.

Then again, I don't think there is enough interest in Berlin... or any non-US location.
Probably a whole Europe setting (with some non-stupid way of fast travel) would do the trick.

 

[laclongquan]

One of the attraction of post apocalyptic setting is the efforts in reunification, rebuilding, and reshaping the world according to your designs. Because we dont want to play scavengers of the past amid the glorious ruins. I want to make something, damnit, not just destroy.

 

[Radisshu]

Fallout 3? Not Fallout, but FALLOUT 3 MADE THE LIST=!"=!?=!"#EQKÖLD JKÖL FHKL FYIFUO PO FF F F

 

[treave]

They should make Fallout: Islam. The only problem would be that the Middle East is already shot to hell, so there wouldn't be much change from how it looks now.

Perks could include IED maker and Rapists that blame it on the girl for showing her ankles....what sluts.

It would be hard to play a game in such a setting without the player wiping out every bit of 'civilization' there is in the game world.

 

[Destroid]

That's exactly why this world has such huge potential as an MMO and why Bethesda wants the license for that so badly now.

Decline of newfags.

 

[SharkClub]

No Fallout or Fallout 2? Instead they put Fallout 3?

 

[Zomg]

It really underestimates the misanthropy of PA, which is a big part of the draw. "Ahhh all those scumbags that lorded it over me are dead! Dead! No more wedgies in the locker room for me, everyone's fucking dead!"

 

[CreamySpinach]

That's exactly why this world has such huge potential as an MMO and why Bethesda wants the license for that so badly now.

Decline of newfags.

They took your JOB!

 

[grotsnik]

That's exactly why this world has such huge potential as an MMO and why Bethesda wants the license for that so badly now.

Decline of newfags.

They took your JOB!

Revealingly non-insane cultural reference there, Prosper.

 

[Phelot]

The physical world in ruin is an absolute must. Even if there are pristine pockets, the world we know has to be broken apart. This can be reflected in nature: blasted trees, mutated plants, cracked earth, bizarre weather. It can most strikingly be shown through the destruction of everything humanity has created: cities in ruin, highways of empty cars, skyscrapers with every window blasted out.

I know it's just his personal opinion, but I must disagree. I don't get why everything physical has to be destroyed and on fire and horrible. Why can't there simply be a epidemic that DOESN'T turn people into rape thirsty zombies that have a knack for starting fires?

I think Dead State was catching some criticism for being "too clean" which I don't think is very fair. I can imagine a post apoc world that isn't in complete ruin in a realistic way.

 

[Mister Arkham]

I know that a fair bit of it is hollow, but I love that Fallout is a franchise where the writers and designers can usually speak intelligently about the themes and socio-psychological concepts that they were trying to explore in a given game.

 

[Azrael the cat]

They should make Fallout: Islam. The only problem would be that the Middle East is already shot to hell, so there wouldn't be much change from how it looks now.

Perks could include IED maker and Rapists that blame it on the girl for showing her ankles....what sluts.

While I disliked the remake of Dawn of the Dead for transforming the critique-on-consumerism into an Aliens-style actionfest (symbolising at the time the devolution of the zombie genre for social-corruption-horror to action-shoot-em-ups) there was something about those opening credits where you see split-second images of thousands praying in mosques as news footage of the zombie plague is heard in the background, that made the idea of an islamic post-apoc awesome.

Always hated those damn fast zombies though. Slow zombies meant that their spread HAD to be because the previous society was already corrupt, hollow and just waiting for a push (ala the slum scenes near the start of Dawn). The fast zombies just turn it into 'scary monsters killing stuff...).

 

[Radisshu]

There are heavy moral aspects to all of the Fallout games, though the political aspects have been emphasised differently in each game. The Fallout world is usually brutal and merciless and the start of the series was pretty notable in its time for allowing the player to be just as brutal as the other monsters of the wasteland. We emphasise player choice heavily, which means giving them the option to lay waste to everything around them.

Politically, the series usually presents the player with dysfunction. Very few communities of any size manage to get by without developing serious shortcomings. In Fallout: New Vegas, the New California Republic is the closest thing the wasteland has to a modern-style republic, but much like modern republics, it is fraught with bureaucratic inefficiency, corruption, and imperialist tendencies. Caesar's Legion is highly ethical, efficient, and disciplined, but in practice is misogynistic, brutal, and allows no room for individuals to have any voice. Caught in the middle is Mr House, the de facto ruler of the Strip, a sort of laissez-faire dictator who is ultimately only interested in maintaining independent control, no matter what the cost may be.

All of these forces show serious flaws because ultimately they are all run by human beings with the same laundry list of shortcomings we have always had. The repeated refrain of the Fallout universe is "War. War never changes." Whether the individual's goals are noble or depraved, ultimately Fallout's humanity finds itself drawn into the same sorts of conflicts that almost resulted in their destruction in 2077.

Can you imagine Todd Howard saying this? lol

 

[Alex]

The physical world in ruin is an absolute must. Even if there are pristine pockets, the world we know has to be broken apart. This can be reflected in nature: blasted trees, mutated plants, cracked earth, bizarre weather. It can most strikingly be shown through the destruction of everything humanity has created: cities in ruin, highways of empty cars, skyscrapers with every window blasted out.

I know it's just his personal opinion, but I must disagree. I don't get why everything physical has to be destroyed and on fire and horrible. Why can't there simply be a epidemic that DOESN'T turn people into rape thirsty zombies that have a knack for starting fires?

I think Dead State was catching some criticism for being "too clean" which I don't think is very fair. I can imagine a post apoc world that isn't in complete ruin in a realistic way.

I think the point isn't so much about whether the world should, realistically, be destroyed or not, but more about what kind of theme you want. A world that looks mostly clean, with the cities being empty rather than destroyed, gives more of an eerie, "there is something wrong here" vibe. Meanwhile having everything burnt or destroyed is better for that "this is madness and I may need to resort to madness myself to survive" feeling.

So, I guess you can have different kinds of post apocalyptic settings, with different themes to each, but you must be careful to match the kind of story you want to tell with what kind of atmosphere you create.

 

[Mister Arkham]

There are heavy moral aspects to all of the Fallout games, though the political aspects have been emphasised differently in each game. The Fallout world is usually brutal and merciless and the start of the series was pretty notable in its time for allowing the player to be just as brutal as the other monsters of the wasteland. We emphasise player choice heavily, which means giving them the option to lay waste to everything around them.

Politically, the series usually presents the player with dysfunction. Very few communities of any size manage to get by without developing serious shortcomings. In Fallout: New Vegas, the New California Republic is the closest thing the wasteland has to a modern-style republic, but much like modern republics, it is fraught with bureaucratic inefficiency, corruption, and imperialist tendencies. Caesar's Legion is highly ethical, efficient, and disciplined, but in practice is misogynistic, brutal, and allows no room for individuals to have any voice. Caught in the middle is Mr House, the de facto ruler of the Strip, a sort of laissez-faire dictator who is ultimately only interested in maintaining independent control, no matter what the cost may be.

All of these forces show serious flaws because ultimately they are all run by human beings with the same laundry list of shortcomings we have always had. The repeated refrain of the Fallout universe is "War. War never changes." Whether the individual's goals are noble or depraved, ultimately Fallout's humanity finds itself drawn into the same sorts of conflicts that almost resulted in their destruction in 2077.

Can you imagine Todd Howard saying this? lol

No, but I can imagine him trying, getting distracted a quarter of the way through, and then talking for six minutes about how shooting teddy-bears at dogs is a great representation of Fallout's trademark "dark humor."

 

[Cassidy]

Between Twelve Monkeys and The Road, in my opinion the former's atmosphere of mostly intact but derelict cities is much eerier.

 

[forgotmypasswordagain]

I don't understand how it's possible for games as ridiculous as Fallout 3 and Fallout:NV to get this sort of probing from the mainstream press. Have all the real writers died and now they're letting a bunch of illiterate nerds take over the reigns of journalism?

The failures of internal logic, the atmospheric inconsistencies and the narrative disarray of both F3 and FNV are all so blatant and jarring that such expositions as those featured in this article cannot be regarded intellectually as anything but the worst kind of juvenile hubris, sadly prevalent throughout institutions of higher learning and the global media, the hallmark of which is a jumble of scavenged sociological phrases propping-up some utterly vapid entity, be it a reality TV-show or some lame video game or George Lucas's latest and steamiest excretion.

I assumed that the developers of games like these have never read a real book in their lives (or if they have then they misunderstood it) and so their insipid mentalities are at least understandable - but, jeepers creepers, when journalists (presumably acquainted with quality literature as part of their education) whose profession it is to inform us on the state of world culture start writing this kind of trash I think we get a few steps closer to a real apocalypse.

Please never change, RPGCodex. I know I am kinda a newfag but you are a precious and sparkling gem of hatred at the bottom of a stagnant sea of banality and I love you from the bottom of my mangina to the top of my monobrow.

: x

 

[Xor]

Did you just now start playing video games or something? Writing in the game industry has been terrible as a rule pretty much forever. There are exceptions, and those are usually more memorable than the average game. PS:T, for instance, is actually pretty well written.

Poor writing only became more noticeable as budgets became larger and developers tried to tell increasingly "epic" stories. This is something that's confused me for a while. If companies will hire professionals to create art, sound, and do voices, why won't they hire professional writers to write the story? Writing is as much of a skill as art or music composition, and a lack of talent shows through in most new games.

Complaining about Fallout 3 is perfectly justified - there are numerous lapses in logic throughout the game. I noticed several in only the few hours I played it for. On the other hand, I haven't had time to sit down and play through New Vegas, but I didn't notice nearly as many glaring flaws and the overall quality of the writing seemed much better. Still not perfect, but at least it seemed better than Fallout 3.

Anyway, if you're going to enjoy games, you have to be willing to accept flaws, because no game is perfect. Sure, I'd like to see amazing writing, a consistent setting, Fallout style cRPG gameplay, and 50+ hours of content from every game I play, but that's never going to happen.

Also, game journalism has always been a joke. Always. Where have you been?

 

[forgotmypasswordagain]

Sorry, I guess I didn't preface my statements with sufficiently clarifying remarks.

It's not the games that I hate for being poorly written, it's that I hate that games that are as poorly written and designed as these are being taken so seriously. I don't care what people play to just have fun with, but I do care when dumb fun is preposterously overintellectualized as in this article, because all that does is make the world a dumber, simpler, slower place for the likes of you and I to be doomed to live and die upon.

Anyway I love you bro don't get all up in my grill like dat.

 

[GarfunkeL]

I think Dead State was catching some criticism for being "too clean" which I don't think is very fair.

Uh, what? It was an abandoned space station, filled with zombies and alien monsters. I've never played the piece of shit console trash, but "too clean" sounds pretty far-fetched.

OH MY GOD FUCKING SPOTIFY IS ADVERTISING ASSASINS CREED: BROTHERHOOD WITH TINY TEMPAH SOUNDTRACK O MY FUCKING GOOD SPOTIFY!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Felix]

I think Dead State was catching some criticism for being "too clean" which I don't think is very fair.

Uh, what? It was an abandoned space station, filled with zombies and alien monsters. I've never played the piece of shit console trash, but "too clean" sounds pretty far-fetched.

OH MY GOD FUCKING SPOTIFY IS ADVERTISING ASSASINS CREED: BROTHERHOOD WITH TINY TEMPAH SOUNDTRACK O MY FUCKING GOOD SPOTIFY!!!!!!!!!!

He was talking about Dead State, not Dead Space :/

 

[GarfunkeL]

He was talking about Dead State, not Dead Space :/

Well, you didn't have to quote my whole post then, Felix! And yes, now that I took a second, LONG look at it, it's clear that he meant ITS Dead State. Which leads me to the conclusion that it's the same old complaint that the school library were no-one has ever been before is too clean.

Which is bullshit, in case someone didn't get it.