Interview Dragon Age II's Old School Influences

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Tags: BioWare; Dragon Age 2

<p>Read about the oldschool influences <strong>Dragon Age 2</strong> has according to Mike Laidlaw <a href="http://www.destructoid.com/the-old-school-dragon-age-ii-and-its-influences-194234.phtml" target="_blank">in this interview</a> over at Destructoid.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>It's clear that Laidlaw loves role-playing games, loves thinking and talking about them.</p>
<p>...</p>
<p>"To me, the hallmarks of a classic role-playing game would be: story-driven, stat-based, and to some lesser degree, there's a bunch of ancillary baggage that comes with it. I have inventory, I have customization."</p>
<p>...</p>
<p>"I think [<em>Dragon Age II</em>] sidesteps what I see as almost like traditions. Traditional weak points of the classic RPG are ... they're daunting. High barrier to entry. They're hard to get into," he says. BioWare's own player-tracking statistics tell a similar tale: a significant portion of <em>Origins </em>players had their own mystifying "other" moments, dropping the game after only an hour.</p>
<p>"They weren't even getting an Achievement," Laidlaw continues. The team was tempted to chalk those dropped players up to rentals, but the stats made it clear that people simply dropped the game.</p>
<p>Those stats had a dramatic effect on Laidlaw and his team, prompting them to totally re-evaluate how <em>Dragon Age II</em>&nbsp;fits into the auspices of classic role playing. "So our goal with 2, I think, is to strip away a lot of that barrier to entry to let you ease into the game," says Laidlaw.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>RPGs are daunting. Some people weren't even getting an achievement!</p>
<p>Spotted at: <a href="http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/101733-dragon-age-iis-old-school-influences.html">GB</a></p>

 

[Spectacle]

Maybe those people quit out of boredom? I'd really like to know how many end up quitting DA2 after an hour.

 

[tehRPness]

They're trying way too hard to convince themselves that they're making RPGs and not action games. If DA officially was not an RPG I might actually play it without feeling all.... dirty.

 

[waywardOne]

boring recycled story, copy/paste world, and retarded combat. DA2 could ship with three prostitutes and a keg of beer and it'd still be shit.

choice words:

I never played DA:O, but I played the DA2 demo. To me it sounds like a game I'd like more than Origins. Does that make me a dumbed down RPG player? Maybe. But I really enjoyed Mass Effect 1 and 2 so I have high hopes for DA2.

 

[Lockkaliber]

Those stats had a dramatic effect on Laidlaw and his team,

Why is it so surprising that some people don't like RPG mechanics? Why does this mean that they should absolutely make their games to appease these people instead of the people that actually might enjoy RPG mechanics?

 

[Konjad]

Those stats had a dramatic effect on Laidlaw and his team,

Why is it so surprising that some people don't like RPG mechanics? Why does this mean that they should absolutely make their games to appease these people instead of the people that actually might enjoy RPG mechanics?

Well, they say yes.

And that - in their opinion - makes their game even more hardcore RPG.

 

[YourDaddy]

They weren't even getting an Achievement

Biggest problem of the game than seems to be: Not enough achievements. Existing achievements are too hard to get.

More of them should be added, beginning with: "Epic achievement of legends: You've started the game. Congratulations, hero."

 

[turn_based_fanboy]

Maybe those people quit out of boredom? I'd really like to know how many end up quitting DA2 after an hour.

That's crazy. Diffrent character prologues were best part of DA.

 

[Roguey]

It doesn't even cross his mind that maybe, just maybe they all quit because of the sheer number of tedious mobs it throws at you even right from the start? Or perhaps they just finally noticed the telemetry thing and turned it off? It's also been shown time and time again that those who play on a more casual basis never finish games to start with, and drop them as soon as the novelty wears off. No amount of welcoming is going to get them to stick with it.

While dense, opaque games like Ultima steered BioWare toward gentler entry points, games like Planescape: Torment guided writer David Gaider as he started drawing out the story and characters of Dragon Age II. Unlike Origins, whose protagonist is malleable blank slate, DAII features Hawke, the Champion of Kirkwall, complete with his own backstory and character arc. (Hawke's appearance and gender are entirely player-defined, though.)

"As soon as you provide a voiced player, you're stepping on the player's toes a little bit," Gaider explains. "On the other hand, there are RPGs that can do that: Planescape:Torment, I think, was one of the best RPGs of all time."

I thought as much. It's even reflected in the spiky armors, unique armors for companions, personal story with lack of epic and no ancient evil, focus on one city...

Don't let it end like this...

 

[Lockkaliber]

Maybe those people quit out of boredom? I'd really like to know how many end up quitting DA2 after an hour.

That's crazy. Diffrent character prologues were best part of DA.

In theory, it was. But they honestly just felt like tacked on gimmicks with pretty bad writing to me.

 

[Hirato]

They're trying way too hard to convince themselves that they're making RPGs and not action games dating simulators. If DA officially was not an RPG I might actually play it without feeling all.... dirty.

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Well, after EA bought them, they've tracked both ME2 and DAO stats, largely based on achievements. I think all that ragequiting retards went against EA's business strategy. They don't want quite large and majorly untapped market consisting of mostly PC players, who want more or less traditional, complex RPGs (not that DAO was a shining example of that, but still). They want casual, mostly console target audience, which initially didn't like many aspects of Bioware's product. So they are throwing out all aspects which they didn't like, and tailoring sequel to their tastes. It's a questionable strategy, in my opinion. Eh, that's EA for you.

 

[MetalCraze]

People who liked New Vegas criticize DA for having bad writing and dumbing down?

 

[GarfunkeL]

And it's not that EA even aims to maximize profits in the long-run - they want to maximize short-term profits and this means that Bioware will have to shit out a game every year that sells as much as possible in a month or so. Whether people play that game for a week or a month is irrelevant.

 

[commie]

People who liked New Vegas criticize DA for having bad writing and dumbing down?

1/10

Please try again. Explain first how Obsidian dumbed down NV over Fallout 3.




On topic, I too noticed the almost puzzled 'they weren't even getting an achievement', like as if it was a specially included feature based on careful market research, and he cannot understand how it wasn't the carrot the marketing men said it'd be.

 

[hoverdog]

stop quoting skyway (mastermind, andhaira, etc.) please

will people never learn

 

[Xor]

We've heard this from Laidlaw before, haven't we? I suspect the real reason people quit DAO was because it was boring. What will they think when those statistics remain the same for DA2?

 

[Reptilian Shapeshifter]

While dense, opaque games like Ultima steered BioWare toward gentler entry points, games like Planescape: Torment guided writer David Gaider as he started drawing out the story and characters of Dragon Age II. Unlike Origins, whose protagonist is malleable blank slate, DAII features Hawke, the Champion of Kirkwall, complete with his own backstory and character arc. (Hawke's appearance and gender are entirely player-defined, though.)

Complete with his own backstory, character arc and railroad to follow. Wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes.

 

[Sceptic]

the hallmarks of a classic role-playing game would be: story-driven, stat-based, and to some lesser degree, there's a bunch of ancillary baggage that comes with it. I have inventory, I have customization.

This shit isn't even funny anymore.

Maybe those people quit out of boredom?

Boredom? in a Bioware game? fuck no, if people quit it's because the game's too complex and you must streamline it as much as possible, then people will enjoy it!

It would even be funny if latest sales trends didn't confirm it as true.

 

[tehRPness]

It would even be funny if latest sales trends didn't confirm it as true.

Fingers crossed. I hope they lose their jobby, Freddy!

 

[Shannow]

We've heard this from Laidlaw before, haven't we? I suspect the real reason people quit DAO was because it was boring. What will they think when those statistics remain the same for DA2?

That clearly means in wasn't streamlined/accessible enough. The same way certain morons think the way out of the financial crisis, that was caused (among others) by deregulation, is more deregulation. The same way the Mayas/Aztecs (can't keep those jungle niggers apart anyway) sacrificed a few thousand more people after the first few thousand didn't have the desired effect. The same way a baboon won't let go of a nut even if the can't pull his fist out of the hole and starves to death.

I'm just waiting how long it takes Bio to finally realize that they want to make (bad) action games with RPG elements and focus on (bad) story instead of real RPGs (with action elements)...

 

[a budda]

funny how people can be different, first time i got an achievement it was like WTF? who cares if i killed 100 gnolls, i fucking know it, was there, why the fuck do i need pop-up messges that break mah imershun

now i'm hearing people play mainly to get them brilliant

maybe bioware should go with their theory and make games with achievements as the main feature, press X - "yay! uber master of pressing x"
why waste resources on creating 60 hours of a story, assets and stuff when according to the "stats" 5 hours and 1000 achievements would be more than enough for their new audience, saves time and money and allows to crap 2-3 games a year

 

[Jaesun]

Will VD be doing a review for this?

 

[Gosling]

I'm just waiting how long it takes Bio to finally realize that they want to make (bad) action games with RPG elements and focus on (bad) story instead of real RPGs (with action elements)...

I think they know it. Probably Brent Knowles left for this very reason. And don't quote me on this but iirc David Gaider implied more than once that he doesn't really care about gameplay and all he's interested in is the story. (which is ok as he's a writer not game designer, but that still say sa lot)

If they could pull off another PST - fuck the combat, I would buy the game. But as we all know that will never happen, not with Gaider, Laidlaw and that lead artist of theirs.

 

[Gosling]

Will VD be doing a review for this?

DA2: best RPG since DAO.

AOD: best RPG since DA2.

 

[Sceptic]

Will VD be doing a review for this?

DA2: best RPG since Arcanum DAO

Ninja: damn beat me to it.