Game News Bloodlines glitch reporting forum up

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: Leonard Boyarsky; Troika Games; Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

<b>Leon Boyarsky</b>, who seems to be having problems logging in to <a href="http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/">our forum</a>, emailed me the following about the difference between bugs and glitches in <A href="http://www.vampirebloodlines.com">Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines</a>. Here's the clip:
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<blockquote>The difference between bugs and glitches:
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Bugs keep you from finishing the game or making the game unplayable. Publishers will not ship a game with known serious bugs.
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Glitches look bad, and sometimes mess with the feel of the game, but do not keep you from playing it through to the end. Publishers will ship a game with glitches. Some publishers will accept more glitches than others, and they have a myriad of reasons as to why these decisions get made.
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Developers want to ship games with no bugs and no glitches.
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This is not meant to be a rip against Activision, the above is how ALL publisher/developer relationships work as long as the publishers is paying for everything.
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This is a serious question that Activision needs to know the answer to. So - is Bloodlines buggy or just glitchy?
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There's a bug thread <a href="http://bloodlines.dilapidation.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=14">here</a> for bugs or really bad glitches.
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_________________
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Leon
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Art Director/Head Muckety Muck
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Troika Games LLC</blockquote>
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So, there you go. Our forum has glitches.
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[Diogo Ribeiro]

So, there you go. Our forum has glitches.

It also has some bugs, ie, Volourn.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

I love the whole link to our own site thing, Saint. Classic.

 

[Volourn]

"It also has some bugs, ie, Volourn."

R00fles!

 

[mathboy]

I like the failed linking to Vampire bloodlines

 

[dojoteef]

I'm sorry Leon, but give me a break. You're going to try to say there is a distinction between bugs and glitches? A computer bug has always meant unwanted/unexpected behavior in a computer program. Now if you want try to make a distinction between the severity of a bug, that's fine, because it sounds like you think Activision would only be willing to pay to have the biggest bugs fixed. Trying to state their is a difference in lingo for bug and glitch is utter bs and sounds like marketing spin (unless this is something specific to video game software publishing), because I'm a CS student with real world experience and I've never heard of such a differentiation. Also talking with my friends who work at Google, IBM, Microsoft, etc they've never mentioned such a distinction either when discussing their projects.

Oh, and I've never ever seen a mention of a "glitch" in a patch. It's always the bugs that are fixed (and I've seen some patched bugs that were so minor only an anal retentive developer could care to have it fixed ). So don't try and push that PR crap over here. People just want a straight answer, give it to them. You could have just said, for the moment you want people to post the biggest bugs/gamestopping bugs instead of minor ones. Now that wouldn't have been so hard, would it?

 

[Whipporowill]

I like the failed linking to Vampire bloodlines

What you talking bout Willis? :wink:

 

[errorcode]

trasnlation: We know there are low severity bugs that shipped so post them here so we can show Activision why they need to immediately prioritize a patch and so we justify the amount of what gets touched in that patch.


I know at MS they use a severity level for each bug:
A - Game crash/hardlock - unable to continue gameplay
b - Major issue - can continue gameplay, but at without features or aspects of gameplay(weapon does not work, dialog with character X does not respond, Ability fails fo function in this area)
c - minor issue - can continue gameplay with all features, but they aren't 100% (clipping, bad textures, audio popping/cut-outs, Ability missing visual effect but functions otherwise)
d - annoyances or peevish issues - minor clipping, etc.

I think Leon is looking for A or B bugs so they can get a emergency patch out and then do a B and C patch later.

 

[Ap_Jolly]

I take it that there will be no performance optimization patch?

 

[LeonX]

Dojoteef, why must you hate? Where is the love?

In no way shape or form was I attempting to fool anyone with my newfangled lingo, the whole glitch thing is personal to me. I feel since I'm head muckety muck at Troika I can invent whatever lingo I want, and force the Troika work dogs to use it, dammit. It's kind of like how employees aren't allowed to make eye contact with me or speak to me unless I speak to them first.

All kidding aside, though, I was just using my own lingo to desribe our situation. I wasn't trying to redefine bugs, I was using different terms to illustrate my point, and I liked "glitches" better than "less severe bugs". Besides being a PR spinning CEO, I'm also a writer, so I tend to get carried away sometimes.

I don't mind the criticism, I just don't like the fact that you think I was trying to pull something on you guys. I (as well as all Troika posters) have always been as truthful with the community as legally possible, and if we couldn't answer something we would just say we couldn't rather than spinning.

I'm going to go curl up in the corner and cry myself to sleep now.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

ur still my sugar booger, leon.

Just dont fuck up next time. kthxbie

 

[Surlent]

Well glitch is still a word. So it's not like Leon made that up.
And about it being official term before, ironically isn't it now official when a CEO of a known company like Troika uses it ?

btw what's the ratio with "glitches" and bugs in Bloodlines ?

PS Leon, will you someday make Arcanum2 ? Please ?

 

[dojoteef]

Well if you say you weren't trying to pull one over on us, I'll bite (I'm gullible like that; I always seem to feel bad if I make someone cry), especially since I'm enjoying Bloodlines at the moment. I just felt disappointed that the game didn't have the same polish that the other recent games I've played had.

I've got a suggestion for you guys, how about next time, you cut down just enough on the content so that you have the time to iron out the bugs, or glitches as you like to term it, at least some of the bigger more obvious ones like the last line of dialog not being displayed on the screen. I don't know if that's going to be a popular opinion around here, but it is something I think you could do in order to make me happier. And honestly isn't your primary goal in life making me happy?

On an unrelated side note, I think one of the coolest things I've seen in the dialog is the Prince using persuasion on me. It's great, I get three dialog options that are exactly the same. Very nice touch on forcing the storyline in a certain direction in a believable manner. (Damn it, I keep reading this paragraph over and for some reason it sounds sarcastic, though I really don't mean it to be. I do honestly like the way you guys did it.)

Oh, and I second the idea of an Arcanum 2. I know it would be great (I played through the first one about 6-7 times, hehe).

 

[Andyman Messiah]

In my humble opinion, a glitch is still a kind of bug, just not as serious as a "real" bug. Anyway, it doesn't matter does it?

 

[mathboy]

I still like the linking to the bloodlines page...

 

[Whipporowill]

Wtf... I changed that. :shock:

 

[Flarnet]

The bug classification errorcode described is what most publishers use. I'm sure Leon didn't try too hard to be a snake but it DID come off a bit like weasling.

All Troika games are unpolished and ship with bugs. This is unavoidable when you aim for the stars combined with no leverage against publishers in terms of getting ample funding. It is in no way a (negative) measurment of the Troika teams skill.

What we must all concentrate is how the game is supported post release. We know now how Atari handles games not on their A-list. It shall be interesting to see how much money Activision is interested in spending on VTMB.

 

[DemonKing]

I think the fact that Troika's past releases were pretty buggy makes us more sensitive to the issue. Also, since the game was put on hold for several months, many people expected a totally polished game.

I seem to remember that Arcanum was also held over for world-wide localisation and that was still a BPOS on release too...it's a shame really because Troika's games always have enough great elements to make you realise how awesome they would be if they had a decent level of spit and polish, but sadly they're always a letdown in some areas...and in particular don't seem to get the testing that a complex genre like CRPGs warrant.

 

[Briosafreak]

The part on the Gamespot review about combat and some time talking about the game with people far from fanboism, that don`t usually go to the gaming sites, really made my mind about getting it. I`m sold, but i hope it gets a patch until i buy it in December.

Why so many stores in the States already received the game but still didn`t put it in display?

 

[Spazmo]

The place I got it at (EB Games in downtown Montreal) was just unpacking the shipping boxes as I walked in.

 

[Shevek]

Well, whatever you call them, I have come up against very few minor bugs or glitches. Mostly, it is just stuff that has to do with animation in some cutscenes (also, next time you do walk animations, you might wanna work on those walk anims for guys), some issues with textures when I enter new areas and so on. Bugwise, this thing is on par with most releases put out by most companies and it is a definate improvement over Troika's past effort.

As to the terminology thing, I think our society has gotten used to this. For example, slums arent slums, they are depressed urban areas. Yeah, that sounds nicer. Who was it that said words would be used to decieve us? Orwell? Anyways, its no big deal as a person in your position is almost required to do PR speak every once in a while if you want to succede.

 

[Spazmo]

Mostly, it is just stuff that has to do with animation in some cutscenes (also, next time you do walk animations, you might wanna work on those walk anims for guys)

Nah, vampires are supposed to look like pansies.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

The walk animations for female characters suck ass. The running, jumping, and most others look fine, but the walking looks kind of like they slept on concrete slabs for a few days.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Some thoughts on bugs:

I'm sick and tired of people who bitch, moan, and whine about bugs in Troika games. Every fucking game is shipped with bugs. That's just how it is, folks. Fucking deal with it. I looked at that idiotic thread where people share their stupid stories, and got ToEE deja vu. I don't think that these forums accomplish anything, Leon, other then creating a strong impression that Bloodlines is buggy. It's not. There are some issues, and there are people who buy their computers at Kmart and hot dog stands, and that's about it.

I love all those "I returned the game, and got HL2 and it runz graet!!11" It's an RPG, moron.

In comparison, KOTOR had a lot more issues with sounds, graphics, slowdowns in apartments, making the game trully unplayable. BG2 had plenty of bugs - initiating conversations with dragons while killing them, party members who wouldn't talk to you or join you after being mazed, not to mention the rules. NWN had a seveal miles long bug list. Yet nobody says that Bio is constantly shipping buggy games or has that reputation. So, wtf?

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Sleeping on concrete slabs for a few days gives the nads a tighter feel.