7 games with "great side quests", recommended by MCA, George Ziets, and others

[rusty_shackleford]

majority of witcher 3 quests were just you following your batman vision witcher sense red trail around
really great design

 

[ilitarist]

Hm. What would you say, which of Arcanum side-quests are among the best?

I seem to have trouble remembering almost any (Stillwater Giant or those Gnomish experiments on ogres come to mind), even tho I did each and every one, but thats probably cause they merged with the main quest in my memory.

Arcanum didn't have quests that stand out that much. The point was it had all kinds of quests. It's one of the things modern RPGs lack. Witcher 3 has sidequests of just two types: small ones that you just find on your way somewhere with exclamation sign on the map, big ones you find on message boards or connected to main plot. But every fucking time it's a subversion. Whenever anyone gives you a task you can guess that there's a complication: the one who hires you will betray you; the one who hires you is the real villain; the one who hired you deserves what's happening to him; the target is already dead; the target is not what you think it is.

When everything tries to be unique nothing is unique. It's like watching M. Night Shyamalan movie, you know the twist is coming. There's similar issue with BioWare games in general starting with Baldur's Gate 2. Pillars of Eternity seems to suffer from it too, but at least it has bounties. It was not so in Arcanum. The very first sidequests you may find is subversive: the cursed guy actually deserves what he got, you can solve it in a variety of ways. But then for a long time you get pretty straightforward tasks. A guy asks you to blow up steam engine, you just do that. Guy wants to rob the bank, you rob the bank. Guy wants to defend a bank from robbery, you help him. Guy wants a camera, you give him a camera - but here's a little subversion cause you might want to use it later. Whole Shrouded Hills is full of more or less direct simple quests even if you often have different ways of solving them.

But then now and again you get into something interesting. Most of Tarant quests are simple. But then there are quests like that clairvoyant lady. Or world's smartest orc. Or Caladon murders. You appreciate them for being special. You need to have mundane things to be surprised by special ones. One of the things that negatively affects modern design is freedom to refine everything. So a modern RPG has few simple tasks, they have time to turn everything into a complex morally grey thing even if it's still a fedex quest mechanically.

 

[ilitarist]

majority of witcher 3 quests were just you following your batman vision witcher sense red trail around
really great design

Majority of programming is just pressing buttons on your keyboard.

Really hard work.

 

[Ash]

^you must be a novelty joke account.

Sure, the poster simplified the actions required in Twitcher quests, but he's not too far off, and was clearly exaggerating intentionally.

 

[Pizzashoes]

Jaheira's treatment in Baldur's Gate 2 marked the start of the whole nu-male menace. She is a domineering woman coupled with an effeminate male. She casts off her emotional bonds with her husband within a day after learning her lover died. The whole affair screams what new feminists think qualifies as empowering for women. Cast off the men. Take the positions of power to create a more wholesome society. But human society has been patriarchal for millenia. Jaheira and many feminists need to understand that to create an equal society they cannot degrade and humiliate the status quo.

So anyone who thinks her content is anything but irredeemable does not understand good RPG gameplay.

 

[ilitarist]

So what is his point if you remove exaggeration? "Witcher 3 often forces you to switch to a special mode, make note of something not seen outside of that mode and interact with this object or follow some kind of trail. Sometimes this way you find some hidden object like secret mechanism, sometimes you look for some beast following marks on the ground or scent in the air, same happens when you track humans. Sometimes you need to make some potion to feel specific scent."

That was dumb thing to say presenting itself as something witty. This argument works worse than saying that shooters are just about pointing at things and clicking or adventure games are about dragging items on items. Even my "novelty joke" was better than this.

 

[Doktor Best]

In Deus Ex, all you do is sneak around, open things and shoot terrorists. It is still one of the greatest games of all time.

And yet, if it would go on for over 100 hours, you would feel the same drag as with Witcher 3.

 

[Delterius]

If you have no mention of Arcanum in an article about great side-quests you can fuck off.

Hm. What would you say, which of Arcanum side-quests are among the best?

I seem to have trouble remembering almost any (Stillwater Giant or those Gnomish experiments on ogres come to mind), even tho I did each and every one, but thats probably cause they merged with the main quest in my memory.

Stillwater Giant, Gnome Conspiracy, the Tarantian Fortune Teller, the Royal Succession and the Ancient Gods quests all come to the top of my mind. Although they are not all equal and some do indeed blend in with the main quest.

 

[Valtiel]

I don't know if I agree 100% with the "don't design one timer mechanics", if they're not a big burden to the development's cost, I can't see much trouble.
For istance, i'm playing Yakuza 0 (pretty fun game), sidequest like they say in the article are pretty much always the same, go there, talk with 3 way dialogue choice and beat up someone, but there is one particular quest which involves sneaking around in stealth mode (which is simply walking away from vision cone), which is so short that doesn't even bothers me. Hell, yakuza 0 is minigame fest, there are so many of them and they mostly fit the mood of the game, and when they do not, they're just plain fun.

 

[Pizzashoes]

If you have no mention of Arcanum in an article about great side-quests you can fuck off.

Hm. What would you say, which of Arcanum side-quests are among the best?

I seem to have trouble remembering almost any (Stillwater Giant or those Gnomish experiments on ogres come to mind), even tho I did each and every one, but thats probably cause they merged with the main quest in my memory.

Stillwater Giant, Gnome Conspiracy, the Tarantian Fortune Teller, the Royal Succession and the Ancient Gods quests all come to the top of my mind. Although they are not all equal and some do indeed blend in with the main quest.

I just played the game for the first time last month, and I did not do all these sidequests. The Tarant Fortune Teller was cool, and I really liked the story about guns slaughtering noble knights. But I didn't find the Gnomish Conspiracy or the Ancient Gods quest. That leads into one thing our guys didn't touch on. How much of the game is actually untouched on an average playthrough and how much do side quests affect the average playthrough?

 

[Doktor Best]

In Deus Ex, all you do is sneak around, open things and shoot terrorists. It is still one of the greatest games of all time.

And yet, if it would go on for over 100 hours, you would feel the same drag as with Witcher 3.

This is some absurd reductionism. It's like saying all you do in a real-strategy game is clicking on things.

Even then, it's quite funny - and telling - that the three things you boiled Deus Ex down to (stealth, lockpicking and ranged combat that isn't a complete joke) are non-existent in The Witcher 3.

Of course. This was the point of my post actually. I dont know if Ash actually realized that or if his butthurt sensors went off way before :D.

And while your second point is also true, i could also easily name quite a few gameplay mechanics that are present in Witcher 3 but not or atleast not in any nonrudamentary way in Deus Ex (melee combat would be the most prominent one).

Listen, i didnt mean my post to become a dick measure contest between those two games. i'm not saying Witcher 3 is the better game as they are not very comparable, all i am saying is that i think that Witcher 3 gets maybe less credit here as it would have gotten if the length of the game would have been taken down a notch. It is hard to keep players attention for as long as this game went on.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Arcanum didn't have quests that stand out that much.

The half-ogre island stuff was very memorable with a pretty unsettling and cool finish. Easily one of my favourite sidequests across games. Strong evocative conclusion while leaving you wanting more, nice.

 

[JarlFrank]

If you have no mention of Arcanum in an article about great side-quests you can fuck off.

Hm. What would you say, which of Arcanum side-quests are among the best?

I seem to have trouble remembering almost any (Stillwater Giant or those Gnomish experiments on ogres come to mind), even tho I did each and every one, but thats probably cause they merged with the main quest in my memory.

Stillwater Giant, Gnome Conspiracy, the Tarantian Fortune Teller, the Royal Succession and the Ancient Gods quests all come to the top of my mind. Although they are not all equal and some do indeed blend in with the main quest.

I just played the game for the first time last month, and I did not do all these sidequests. The Tarant Fortune Teller was cool, and I really liked the story about guns slaughtering noble knights. But I didn't find the Gnomish Conspiracy or the Ancient Gods quest. That leads into one thing our guys didn't touch on. How much of the game is actually untouched on an average playthrough and how much do side quests affect the average playthrough?

That's also what gives Arcanum such a great replay value. Not only is it an amazing RPG with tons of choices that affect the ending slides, but you can also miss a lot of its quests. On another playthrough with a different character, you therefore have the chance to discover new things you haven't seen the first time around.

In a lot of modern games, quest givers are obviously marked, or even directly approach you to push a task on you. In Arcanum, you might talk to some normal dude on the street and suddenly receive a quest. Nice!

 

[fantadomat]

Arcanum didn't have quests that stand out that much.

The half-ogre island stuff was very memorable with a pretty unsettling and cool finish. Easily one of my favourite sidequests across games. Strong evocative conclusion while leaving you wanting more, nice.

It did change the player's view on the whole game.After that quest i was never the same,going around exterminating gnomes and destroying the world. It is strange to be the last being left in the world.

If you have no mention of Arcanum in an article about great side-quests you can fuck off.

Hm. What would you say, which of Arcanum side-quests are among the best?

I seem to have trouble remembering almost any (Stillwater Giant or those Gnomish experiments on ogres come to mind), even tho I did each and every one, but thats probably cause they merged with the main quest in my memory.

Stillwater Giant, Gnome Conspiracy, the Tarantian Fortune Teller, the Royal Succession and the Ancient Gods quests all come to the top of my mind. Although they are not all equal and some do indeed blend in with the main quest.

I just played the game for the first time last month, and I did not do all these sidequests. The Tarant Fortune Teller was cool, and I really liked the story about guns slaughtering noble knights. But I didn't find the Gnomish Conspiracy or the Ancient Gods quest. That leads into one thing our guys didn't touch on. How much of the game is actually untouched on an average playthrough and how much do side quests affect the average playthrough?

That's also what gives Arcanum such a great replay value. Not only is it an amazing RPG with tons of choices that affect the ending slides, but you can also miss a lot of its quests. On another playthrough with a different character, you therefore have the chance to discover new things you haven't seen the first time around.

In a lot of modern games, quest givers are obviously marked, or even directly approach you to push a task on you. In Arcanum, you might talk to some normal dude on the street and suddenly receive a quest. Nice!

The ring in the sewer .

 

[Dorateen]

Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar

The Sky Barge and hermit crab side quests easily top this list. The Sky Barge, for its clever execution and combat encounters. While the hermit crab for its sheer whimsy and charm, writing and reactivity within the gameworld.

 

[Viata]

Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar

The Sky Barge and hermit crab side quests easily top this list. The Sky Barge, for its clever execution and combat encounters. While the hermit crab for its sheer whimsy and charm, writing and reactivity within the gameworld.

I liked the White Owl side-quest. I thought it was a joke until I found those foods to buy.

 

[ilitarist]

I've just tried replaying Arcanum. I played it to death many years ago and still remember a lot.

I started as Half-Orc with Sold your Soul background. That means everyone hates me. Leaving crash site I managed to get a scar. When I got to Shrouded Hillls my reaction modifier was so low i was instantly attacked by constable and guard. I went and completed quest with cursed bandits and that improved things. Still dwarves and elves hated me enough to start a fight so I sneaked in to the doctor and healed my scar. I still get attacked by people who do not like you, that guy in Tarant's gentleman's club attacked me on sight. IIRC he expected assassins to come for him so that kinda works. True roleplaying experience!

Anyway when you look at it from modern perspective it sometimes looks like a Fallout 4, heh. It's as if your character is defined: in dialogue you're always a smartass, often your choice is either say something witty and offensive or to say good bye, often you have no choice but to say something sarcastic. Reactivity is not consistent. With those cursed guys I can't even ask the priest if he lifts a curse, I can only lie to the dead brigand that I'd ask priest. I understand they may have wanted a subversive story as the first quest and you still get a lot of freedom but it's strange that the choice is basically either to kill a priest or allow brigands to suffer eternally (and I suspect they still suffer if you kill the priest because otherwise the curse does not make sense). At the same time in Shrouded Hills everything is much more logical, I can fix the steam engine after I blow it even though the reward is laughable. Fun!

This game also looks like it had a promise of systemic roleplaying. This reaction system is underutilized, before I played as Half-Orc with bad background I hardly encountered it. Though it affects prices. I can easily see them doing something like a Daggerfall game with this system - fill the world with random cities creating a sense of scope, add a lot of randomized quests making you want to make friends for economic reasons and maybe later quests (like in story you need a help of an Elf to find Elven city). And make all the real quests interesting. I kinda hope Bethesda comes back to a system like that and adds interesting systemic challenges. Fallout 4 on Survival difficulty has shades of that. Anyway, the point is, as I said earlier, that they've consciously added a lot of dumb quests to the game like being a paper boy and delivering useless stuff. And they were right in doing so because it makes special quests to be more appreciated and gives you a freedom to explore game systems. They have a lot of generic/randomized dialogue for bad Half-Orc greetings, but some NPCs have special greetings or do not care that I'm Half-Orc - and that makes me appreciate them more. Generic quests and NPCs with minimal interactions make the world in general more alive.

Also combat is better than I remember. In turn-based mode you even have some interesting trades to make even if you have no abilities at all: spend fatigue for an additional action or save it.

 

[Anomander Rake]

I know that I shouldn't play games from Brad Johnson, because if he can call witcher 3 side quests creative, you have to be stoned.

From user Ilitarist:
I kinda hope Bethesda comes back to a system like that and adds interesting systemic challenges. Fallout 4 on Survival difficulty has shades of that. Anyway, the point is, as I said earlier, that they've consciously added a lot of dumb quests to the game like being a paper boy and delivering useless stuff. And they were right in doing so because it makes special quests to be more appreciated and gives you a freedom to explore game systems. They have a lot of generic/randomized dialogue for bad Half-Orc greetings, but some NPCs have special greetings or do not care that I'm Half-Orc - and that makes me appreciate them more. Generic quests and NPCs with minimal interactions make the world in general more alive.

They won't for a really simple reason. It's too much effort for something that ain't appreciated by people, or should I say market. When you dumb down a game more and more people start to buy it. The aficionados will keep buying it hoping that they will turn back to their roots, while the generic players will keep asking for it being dumbed down. Wonder who is the biggest market between elite players and console players?

 

[ilitarist]

He thinks they have creative stories. When you compare to most of RPGs - that they do.

I don't believe in dumbing down being a profitable thing in itself.

I believe it can help a bad design just as a limb amputation may be the best solution for some health problems. Some of the most popular games are incredibly complex and hard to master. Like StarCraft 2, or, from Steam's top played games: Football Manager 2018, Path of Exile, Sid Meier's Civilization VI, Dark Souls 3, Europa Universalis 4. Most of examples of dumbed down games have ditched some mechanics because they couldn't implement them properly. Then we're going into a philosophical argument: what is better, a lot of mechanics and rules that do not work or balanced - or a limited set of mechanics that at least work, even if they feel shallow. Bethesda games constantly try to add new systems and remove old ones. They never seem to get a hang on dialogue/relations system, I think every game of theirs has a new system. They got a complex crafting and building mechanics into Fallout 4 but removed skills, they gave you much more things to do in combat and increased enemy variety but cut the ways you may affect the world in dialogue - but at the same time they've expanded social element through deeper companion interaction and settlement management. It's not dumbing down, it's a switch of focus.

 

[bylam]

No TSW

Clunky MMO mechanics aside, I thought ours were better than most - including a few of the games on that list.

 

[Delterius]

No TSW

Clunky MMO mechanics aside, I thought ours were better than most - including a few of the games on that list.

The investigative ones are great, yes.

Make a single player game already.

 

[Deflowerer]

No TSW

Clunky MMO mechanics aside, I thought ours were better than most - including a few of the games on that list.

You guys wasted a great setting with great writing on an MMO, simple as that. Maybe it was financially better decision to do an MMO, but in the pages of history, no one will give a fuck.

 

[GuiltyofBeingTrite]

No TSW

Clunky MMO mechanics aside, I thought ours were better than most - including a few of the games on that list.

I can only drive a train for so long, and the sidequests always end up docking my main salary
http://store.steampowered.com/app/530070/Train_Sim_World_CSX_Heavy_Haul/

 

[JarlFrank]

No TSW

Clunky MMO mechanics aside, I thought ours were better than most - including a few of the games on that list.

You guys wasted a great setting with great writing on an MMO, simple as that. Maybe it was financially better decision to do an MMO, but in the pages of history, no one will give a fuck.

This. Seriously bylam if you guys make a proper single player urban fantasy RPG in the style of TSW, I'd be willing to shell out full price at day 1 because the subgenre is extremely undersaturated (we got... pretty much only Bloodlines).

But I just don't give a fuck about MMOs.

 

[bylam]

You don't need to tell me...