Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Game News Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Update #25: Reactivity Up The Wazoo

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Tags: InXile Entertainment; Wasteland 2

As promised, the folks at inXile have uploaded a Wasteland 2 Kickstarter update, which elaborates on some of the issues people had with the gameplay video. It's very long and very exciting, and I suggest you read it in its entirety. In the rest of this post, I'll go over some of the issues that were of particular pertinence to the Codex.

First of all, according to the update, camera rotation will be completely optional. The levels have been designed so that you can play the entire game without touching the camera controls. The game will have a myriad of other camera options as well, such as a toggleable "follow mode", several different zoom levels, and toggleable 90-degree rotation.

Second, some of you complained about the appearance and the obtrusiveness of the game's HUD. To remedy that, inXile are planning to create differently sized versions of each HUD element, and most of the HUD elements will have an "Auto Hide" option as well.

Lastly, and this is the exciting part, the update describes how inXile are planning to address the concerns some people had over the lack of clarity and "lack of immersion" of the game's keyword-based dialogue system (you fucking LARPers), as well as its perceived lack of complexity. I'll post that section of the update here:

The last thing we want to talk about is the keyword dialog system. Many of our systems are designed to be a modern take on systems from the original Wasteland. We started with the Wasteland keyword system and updated it, adding layers of complexity that enable us to increase conversational reactivity.​

The foundation of the keyword system is the player building up a keyword library through interaction with NPCs and the world. The keyword list starts out empty, and as you speak with NPCs they will reveal new keywords to you. If the revealed keyword is only of interest to that NPC, it will go into a local list. You can click on words in the keyword list to navigate through the conversation. If the revealed keyword has importance beyond that particular conversation, it is put into the regional keyword list. These keywords are of interest to most of the NPCs you encounter that region. A third option, which is never required, is to type something in – a nod to Wasteland 1’s system.​

Keywords are also added to the keyword list through perception skill use and environmental description text. For example, if you use perception to examine an object in the world, your observations might reveal a new keyword. Or, if you explored the level and triggered the descriptor text of some object or feature, it too might unlock a keyword.​

The NPC’s reaction to any given keyword can be affected by a number of factors including: the party composition, previous gameplay choices, previously used keywords, previous player responses to NPC questions, character skills, character attributes, item inventory, equipped weapons and armor, prior party actions, and CNPCs in the party. In other words, there isn't a one-to-one correlation between keywords and the NPC’s response.​

It is important that the player listens to (reads) what the NPCs are saying, because often you can judge by their tone the right way to approach the conversation. For instance, in some cases using a keyword at a particular point of the conversation changes the NPC’s answer to other keywords, or even ends the conversation all together.​

One of the suggestions from the fans was that the Ranger party should deliver a line of dialog instead of just barking a keyword. We really love this idea. Having full sentences creates a natural conversation flow. Additionally, this approach allows us to remove the ambiguity of keywords – holding your mouse over a keyword will show you a preview of the sentence your Rangers will say.​

Not exciting enough for you? After this description, there's a lengthy hypothetical example of a Wasteland 2 conversation, which demonstrates the potential depth and complexity of this dialogue system. It should make all of you C&C fanatics very happy in the pants. Hopefully, the game will maintain this level of reactivity throughout, and it won't just be an occasional gimmick.

On a related note, I'd like to congratulate long-time CRPG community contributor and frequent Codex informant Brother None for his promotion. May your career as "line producer" be long and fruitful, Brother!
 

Suchy

Arcane
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
6,031
Location
Potatoland
One of the suggestions from the fans was that the Ranger party should deliver a line of dialog instead of just barking a keyword. We really love this idea. Having full sentences creates a natural conversation flow. Additionally, this approach allows us to remove the ambiguity of keywords – holding your mouse over a keyword will show you a preview of the sentence your Rangers will say.
A working example:
NPC Bob, who is guarding some guns, has intro text that reveals two keywords he has more to say about. Clicking on Bob starts the dialog:
>NPC Bob – “Hey strangers, we don’t normally see people out so far into the wasteland. Be careful, it is really dangerous out here unless you are heavily armed.”
This introduces two keywords to the player that they can use to converse with NPC Bob, dangerous and armed. Using the keyword dangerous will prompt NPC Bob give you more information about what is up ahead.
>Ranger Party (keyword = dangerous) –“What is so dangerous about these canyons?”
>NPC Bob – “These canyons are crawling with the outcasts of every crappy society in the wasteland. You had better watch your step.”
Using the armed keyword will have NPC Bob tell you about a possible mission.
>Ranger Party (keyword = armed) –“How do you think we should be armed?”
>NPC Bob – “It is best to have a lot of hollow point ammo out here for all the mutant creatures wandering around. I just came from a cave at the end of that canyon where I found a half destroyed case of ammo. You are welcome to help yourself if you find them. You are going to need all the help you can get out here.”
Yup, finally. Just what I expected from a keyword system, so from now on I stop bitching about it.
 

Carrion

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
3,648
Location
Lost in Necropolis
One of the suggestions from the fans was that the Ranger party should deliver a line of dialog instead of just barking a keyword. We really love this idea. Having full sentences creates a natural conversation flow. Additionally, this approach allows us to remove the ambiguity of keywords – holding your mouse over a keyword will show you a preview of the sentence your Rangers will say.​
So they did make it like Mass Effect after all. [insert emoticon here]

But really, it's a pretty great update.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
One of the suggestions from the fans was that the Ranger party should deliver a line of dialog instead of just barking a keyword. We really love this idea. Having full sentences creates a natural conversation flow. Additionally, this approach allows us to remove the ambiguity of keywords – holding your mouse over a keyword will show you a preview of the sentence your Rangers will say.​
So they did make it like Mass Effect after all. [insert emoticon here]

But really, it's a pretty great update.

Of course, some people still aren't satisfied: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2/posts/412225?page=1#comments

Marios Damoulianos about 1 hour ago

It's all good 'n' proper for me but the "keyword" dialogue system is just plainly awful. Dialogue doesn't seem like dialogue, all colour and wit on the player's part is absent and I really dont care if this was the case 20+ years or so back. I hated it in Morrowind and I hate it now even more. THIS IS NOT DIALOGUE. IT IS JUST A MINIGAME TO GET INFORMATION.
If I knew it I wouldn't back this up at all. Perhaps.

:hero:

Also a bunch of retards complaining about an illiterate Wasteland raider using the phrase "I could care less".
 

Suchy

Arcane
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
6,031
Location
Potatoland
So they did make it like Mass Effect after all.
Nope.
1) You'll see preview of what the party will say
2) In ME you chose a keyword and Shepard was saying something completely different.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
lol, here's another gem


Jonathan Koay about 2 hours ago

Everything I have seen on Wasteland 2 so far is awesome. My only wish item is for it to have Xcom-like action camera during turn based combat. That will be even more awesome.

:hearnoevil:
 

evdk

comrade troglodyte :M
Patron
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
11,292
Location
Corona regni Bohemiae
Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
lol, here's another gem


Jonathan Koay about 2 hours ago

Everything I have seen on Wasteland 2 so far is awesome. My only wish item is for it to have Xcom-like action camera during turn based combat. That will be even more awesome.

:hearnoevil:
At first I was confused, because I couldn't remember anything like that from good old X-COM. And then I remembered...
 

Lancehead

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
1,550
The NPC Bob example is good with plenty of parameters and variance, but the writing is pretty bad. Still, here's hoping they're able get that kind of variance consistently throughout the game.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
Oh goodie now we really do have
6igqxl.jpg

6f2lpe.png

Also a bunch of retards complaining about an illiterate Wasteland raider using the phrase "I could care less".
It's a stupid phrase that should die, using it at all just perpetuates its use.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Roguey This won't turn out like those, since they're just taking already existing keywords and expanding them out to sentences. They aren't adding any fluff "personality-expressing" dialogue choices.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
Right, right.
>Ranger Party (keyword = Angharradh) Angharradh sent you?
>Ranger Party (keyword = dire fate) How do I prevent this dire fate?
>Ranger Party (keyword = river pirates) What is it like to be a river pirate?
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Right, right.
>Ranger Party (keyword = Angharradh) Angharradh sent you?
>Ranger Party (keyword = dire fate) How do I prevent this dire fate?
>Ranger Party (keyword = river pirates) What is it like to be a river pirate?

It's an improvement over "You don't look like the raping and pillaging sort", isn't it?
 

Alex_Steel

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
2,548
Marios Damoulianos about 1 hour ago

It's all good 'n' proper for me but the "keyword" dialogue system is just plainly awful. Dialogue doesn't seem like dialogue, all colour and wit on the player's part is absent and I really dont care if this was the case 20+ years or so back. I hated it in Morrowind and I hate it now even more. THIS IS NOT DIALOGUE. IT IS JUST A MINIGAME TO GET INFORMATION.
If I knew it I wouldn't back this up at all. Perhaps.
Goddamn Greeks and their decline ways. Someone should carpet bomb the entire country.

Anyway, this was a great update! :incline:
 

janjetina

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
14,231
Location
Zagreb, Croatia
Torment: Tides of Numenera
If they deliver on the promised features, this will meet all my requirements. All the issues that I had after watching the video have been addressed in a satisfactory manner. Inixile developers seem aware that the key to good UI is full customisation. Full sentences that describe the intent behind the keywords and the reactivity that the keyword based dialogue system will entail make me support the system 100%. The plan seems to be great, let's see if the execution will match it.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
Right, right.
>Ranger Party (keyword = Angharradh) Angharradh sent you?
>Ranger Party (keyword = dire fate) How do I prevent this dire fate?
>Ranger Party (keyword = river pirates) What is it like to be a river pirate?

It's an improvement over "You don't look like the raping and pillaging sort", isn't it?
That line made me laugh though because there's dark comedy to be found in taking a casual tone with serious crimes. Including boring, full sentences ruins my gallows humor LARPing.
 

Lancehead

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
1,550
Right, right.
>Ranger Party (keyword = Angharradh) Angharradh sent you?
>Ranger Party (keyword = dire fate) How do I prevent this dire fate?
>Ranger Party (keyword = river pirates) What is it like to be a river pirate?

It's an improvement over "You don't look like the raping and pillaging sort", isn't it?
Ehhh, I'm not sure, at least not by much.

ibknpCIpzZe5ZE.png


Of course, one could always care less.
 

Crooked Bee

(no longer) a wide-wandering bee
Patron
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
15,048
Location
In quarantine
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
holding your mouse over a keyword will show you a preview of the sentence your Rangers will say.

Brother None Can you please ask them to make this a toggle? I'd rather play the game with pure keywords, personally -- not a big deal, just a matter of preference.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Lancehead
It's not quite the same though, because you don't see those full sentences all displayed together in front of your eyes. They appear only as tooltips to clarify the keywords.
 

grotsnik

Arcane
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
1,671
but the writing is pretty bad.

Hopefully they'll make another couple of passes to iron out the language slips and the various typos we've seen cropping up in the various previews (The all-American characters need to be using contractions! "You are welcome to help yourself if you find them. You are going to need all the help you can get out here", says NPC Bob, like a fucking robot). It's easy to make fun of pedantry when it comes to dialogue in some daft game about androids and mutants, but getting the very basic stuff right is going to make all the difference between amusingly cheesy tough-guy writing and...well...

That was an interesting and informative update, although I don't understand the "meow" instead of "now" running joke and frankly, it fills me with a horror unlike any I've ever known.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom