Review RPG Codex Review: Monte Cook's Numenera

[Grunker]

Tags: Monte Cook; Numenera; Torment: Tides of Numenera

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On April 6, 2013, 74,405 people decided that the world was ready for another Torment game. They did so even though the developers behind it, Brian Fargo and his company inXile, were unable to acquire the rights to produce a direct sequel. No familiar characters, no familiar story, and most importantly of all, perhaps: no familiar setting.

Instead, Fargo, and his lead designer Colin McComb, had decided to use the Numenera setting, the all-new pen & paper setting by Planescape co-creator Monte Cook.

Numenera itself was the product of a succesful Kickstarter, and the pitch promised it would be a strange and mystical spin on fantasy tropes and science fiction alike. In theory, a perfect substitute for Planescape.

The people gave inXile the green light. Torment: Tides of Numenera has yet to be released, but Monte Cook's Numenera saw release in 2013. Almost instantly after its release, I contacted a few Codexers for the purpose of writing a review. After all, we've had some P&P interviews before, and no P&P setting seemed more relevant than Numenera considering its use in Torment. Blaine wanted to, but then read the damned thing and told me to fuck off, saying that he really didn't "want to waste hours on a pages-long shrug of the shoulders." Not that impressed, huh, Blaine? Alex was more interested, but, honest man that he is, he wanted to actually playtest the damned thing first so he could review it "properly." Hmph. Well, I waited. And then I waited some more.

Until the fateful day when this excellent review appeared in my inbox.

Taken as a whole, Numenera is a bit weird. It isn't quite like some "indie" games: in a way, it is too traditional. On the other hand, it clearly breaks off from, say, D20 traditions by having a system that isn't particularly tactical. It certainly isn't everyone's cup of tea. My playtest group mostly disliked the game, and what seems to have been the biggest deal breaker is how the game is too simple, mechanically. Of course, with a bit of imagination, it is quite possible to make the game more complex, but if you are looking for a game where you will build a character from lots of little options and then use pre-defined actions in combat to conquer your enemies, well, Numenera isn't about that at all. My group also disliked how the system's advancement scheme is rather "flat". While a tier 6 character can do some amazing things a tier 1 would never be able to, they don't have dozens of special abilities. Nor do they first become able to do the impossible, to later become able to do the absurd and finally the ridiculous, like say, in 3e's epic level skill progression. Also, for someone looking for something more "story oriented" like Apocalypse World, or even Burning Wheel, Numenera isn't that kind of game either.​

Read the full article: RPG Codex Review: Monte Cook's Numenera

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

They could have saved me a fucking headache (and the anal cavity of Torment's corpse) by picking a different name... and a different story instead of a clear-cut copy/paste of classic Torment's story. God, I hope they prove me wrong, but none the less:
BUT HAY WHATEVAH ITZ TURDTALLY WORTHY SUCCESS LOL

 

[Zed]

Well done, Alex.

 

[Ninjerk]

I like the art.

 

[felipepepe]

I really wonder how they will implement all this in the new Torment game.... somethings like Banner Saga's effort? Also, I hope for some REALLY GOOD itemization.

 

[Excidium]

Finally. Great Job Arekkusu.

Too bad the game is p. lame.

 

[evdk]

I like the art.

An important thing in a RPG system, to be sure.

 

[Blaine]

I read Numenera cover-to-cover when it arrived in the mail, and declined to review it (as I'd suggested I might do) because it was so intensely mediocre and uninteresting—neither bad enough for a humorous panning, nor good enough to be exciting—that I felt it simply wasn't worth the effort. I tossed out a few blurbs in some thread or another by way of discussion, but that was it.

Note however that Numenera should still do quite nicely as a setting for T:ToN.

 

[Grunker]

neither bad enough for a humorous panning, nor good enough to be exciting

[...]

Note however that it should still do quite nicely as a setting for T:ToN.

This is pretty much what I read out of Alex' review as well. An interesting setting with a wealth of ideas that needs a strong and creative gem to be of any worth. Or a talented writing team on a cRPG. The system seems to be pretty much junk either way you slice it, but maybe could be salvaged as mechanics for a video game.

 

[Ninjerk]

I like the art.

An important thing in a RPG system, to be sure.

I'll never play it more than likely, so it's nice to see something like a lot of the old paintings done for science and speculative fiction from the 60s onward.

 

[Blaine]

Grunker
Regarding the system being junk, I do appreciate a "flatter" leveling curve wherein characters are created more powerful than their D&D cousins, and don't become exponentially more so in the fullness of time. In D&D, you essentially begin with 2 HP, a rusty dagger, sixpence, and the ability to glare quite sternly at your enemies—then eventually become Batman dual-wielding the staves of both Gandalf and Radagast ten campaigns down the road.

That said, the flat curve probably isn't ideally implemented in Numenera.

Spoiler

Of course it's basically still dressed-up D&D, so the system is in fact junk.

 

[Alex]

By the way, I want to thank everyone on the staff who helped me get this review out. Especially Grunker, idonthavetimeforthiscrap, Infinitron, Zed, Darth Roxor, Crooked Bee and felipepepe (and if I forgot anyone, I am dreadfully sorry).

I read Numenera cover-to-cover when it arrived in the mail, and declined to review it (as I'd suggested I might do) because it was so intensely mediocre and uninteresting—neither bad enough for a humorous panning, nor good enough to be exciting—that I felt it simply wasn't worth the effort. I tossed out a few blurbs in some thread or another by way of discussion, but that was it.

Note however that Numenera should still do quite nicely as a setting for T:ToN.

Well, I don't disagree with you, but I have a bit of hope for the supplements. I think the issue here might be that Monte Cook is trying to create a baseline in the core book for the rest of the game. So, a whole lot of pages were spent in developing the basis for the system, the basic numenera that no one cares that much about, etc.

When you compare the system to D&D, are you talking about the basic dice roll mechanic?

 

[felipepepe]

then eventually become Batman dual-wielding the staves of both Gandalf and Radagast

My GM must be shit, I never became Batman.

 

[Grunker]

Grunker
Regarding the system being junk, I do appreciate a "flatter" leveling curve wherein characters are created more powerful than their D&D cousins, and don't become exponentially more so in the fullness of time. In D&D, you essentially begin with 2 HP, a rusty dagger, sixpence, and the ability to glare quite sternly at your enemies—then eventually become Batman dual-wielding the staves of both Gandalf and Radagast ten campaigns down the road.

That said, the flat curve probably isn't ideally implemented in Numenera.

Spoiler

Of course it's basically still dressed-up D&D, so the system is in fact junk.

Oh, I'm not saying it should have been more tactical or whatever. Sounds like it was the right idea to keep it flat and tied to GM actions. Just doesn't sound like it was implemented very well.

 

[Excidium]

I just found progression boring, you only really get any choice with your type (class), and most of it is rather uninteresting. In most RPGs you usually look forward leveling up, because it means you get more powerful or versatile and generally have interesting stuff to look forward. But with Numenera i just thought holy shit how many times does a Glaive needs to learn how to swing a sword in a different way (that logically I should already know) for a damage modifier.

I think the only thing that was cool to look forward is that I had the "Howls at the Moon" focus and it has cool tier upgrades where your beast mode gets more powerful and you get better at controlling the shape change, first learning to change with a check and then at will. But again, it's static, not a character development choice.

 

[Blaine]

When you compare the system to D&D, are you talking about the basic dice roll mechanic?

No, I'm talking about the whole shebang. Numenera's mechanics are essentially a pared-down, repurposed version of the D&D mechanics, with some unique additions. If someone had only ever read D&D 3.X/4.X, then they might believe Numenera is quite different; but when you compare Numenera not only to D&D but also to GURPS, BRP, WHFRP, Silhouette, RIFTS, FATE, Shadowrun, oWoD, HERO System, and any of the many other core rulebooks I squandered portions my youth poring through, it becomes clear that Numenera shares more in common with D&D than with any of the rest.

Not that I'm accusing you of being unfamiliar with other systems, mind you—I'm just trying to get my point across clearly.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Completely forgettable, pretentious, stupid garbage, I found it funny how in weeks nobody of the players I know mentioned Numegaya at all. No one has even talked about it once in months. Says it all.

Systems keep getting dumber and dumber, and treating players like Power Rangers who get amazing powers without any effort (with the exception of GURPS).

Use GURPS, and for the rest play older systems, modules, and materials as well. The PnP scene is declining just as much as videogames do, and it shows. Now that gen Xers and earlier are in control their lack of culture and rigor shines through.

 

[Kron]

The whole feeling the artwork gives off is fucking generic shit.

Looks like a visually badly designed Final Fantasy generic sci-fi-something.

The fact that the creators of rule books get bad artists, and that the visual design statement of the books are bland is something that REALLY puts me off; to me it speaks about not having a clear creative focus.

 

[oscar]

Setting seems much more of a rip-off of Book of the New Sun than a Planescape rehash.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

You could play systems like GURPS, D&D or Cthulhu for months and months on end. In fact it's not unheard of to hear about groups of players who played one of these systems non stop for 5, 10 years on end, or even 20, or more. Can you imagine people being all excited to play a tedious, stupid system that has zero depth, intelligence, and imagination like Numegaya, for even just a few months? I'd rather spend one hour to bang my head against the wall.

 

[Scruffy]

good job with the review. just wanted to say that i was not very impressed by this setting, considering that it's supposed to come from some of the minds behind planescape. i do like the idea of the numeneras, the rest sounds meh

 

[flabbyjack]

6, 2013, 74,405 people decided that the world was ready for another Torment game

Thats a lotta peoples

 

[Sensuki]

The 3rd last paragraph of the review is a very important thing in regards to the Torment game.

 

[Dr Schultz]

Completely forgettable, pretentious, stupid garbage, I found it funny how in weeks nobody of the players I know mentioned Numegaya at all. No one has even talked about it once in months. Says it all.


Systems keep getting dumber and dumber, and treating players like Power Rangers who get amazing powers without any effort (with the exception of GURPS).


Use GURPS, and for the rest play older systems, modules, and materials as well. The PnP scene is declining just as much as videogames do, and it shows. Now that gen Xers and earlier are in control their lack of culture and rigor shines through.

White Wolf's systems, Legend of Five Rings, Shadowrun or Deathwatch (if you like combat-centric RPGs), are all better than GURPS, in any possible way.
That being say, I agree with the reviewer. The best part of the corebook is the GM part... and the setting, which is all but generic.


As for the question: How does this ruleset fit Torment? Certainly better than AD&D.

You could play systems like GURPS,D&Dor Cthulhu for months and months on end.

Yeah, if you are masochist, you definitely can. An high-level campaign with D&D is among the most boring experiences I had in my life.

 

[Stokowski]

That's a terrific review Alex . Thanks to you and your testing crew.