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Game News Pillars of Eternity Kickstarter Update #81: The Front Line: Fighters and Barbarians

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Tags: J.E. Sawyer; Obsidian Entertainment; Pillars of Eternity

In this week's Pillars of Eternity Kickstarter update, Josh Sawyer formally introduces the game's last two classes. The Fighter:

If one of Pillars of Eternity's eleven classes is the rock (we'll skip the obvious "pillar" joke), it's the fighter. All across Eora, fighters are known for their discipline, skill, and durability. In the Eastern Reach, they are often employed as caravan guards, soldiers, and personal bodyguards. Accustomed as they are to long marches, strange places, and life on the road, all fighters gain a minor skill bonus to Athletics, Lore, and Survival.

In combat, fighters are steadfast and stalwart. Even novice fighters enjoy the highest base Deflection defense of any class and the ability to passively recover a small amount of Stamina every second. As the levels rise, fighters gain access to weapon specialization, modestly increasing their overall damage for all weapons in a specific category. These categories are broader than they were in the Infinity Engine games. E.g. the Knight category covers battle axes, swords, morning stars, crossbows, and war bows. The Peasant category includes hatchets, spears, quarterstaves, hunting bows, and blunderbusses. The selections are designed to cover a variety of damage types, to include one- and two-handed options, and to always feature at least one ranged weapon. At even higher levels, fighters gain abilities to recover Stamina immediately after being wounded, to protect nearby allies from incoming attacks, to knock down groups of enemies, and even to yank enemy passersby into the fray. Overall, fighters are designed to be low-maintenance, reliable, and long-lived even in marathon battles.​

And the Barbarian:

A QA (Quality Assurance) favorite at Obsidian, barbarians are the wild, unconventional counterparts to fighters. Barbarians need not be from the "hinterlands" of Eora, though the vast majority are. In the Eastern Reach, barbarians most often come from Eir Glanfath, though some can be found in rural Dyrwoodan communities or drifting in from abroad through port cities like Defiance Bay and New Heomar. Barbarians are often used as shock troops for dealing with mobs or simply to intimidate the easily-cowed with their ferocity. As the Dyrwood has settled down over time, the regular employment of foreign barbarians has slowed significantly, but they still make up the majority of Glanfathan front-line forces. Barbarians all have a strong skill focus in Athletics and lesser focus in Survival.

While fighters rely on disciplined adherence to proven combat techniques to weather difficult battles, barbarians charge furiously into melee and wreak enormous damage to everyone around them. Barbarians are relatively inaccurate, but every melee attack they make gives them an opportunity to strike out at bystanders. Barbarians have the highest Health and Stamina of all classes, which they need given their low Deflection -- a defense that suffers additional penalties when the barbarian frenzies. A barbarian's Frenzy is one of his most valuable tools, allowing him to dramatically increase his damage output and Stamina for a short period of time. However, in addition to suffering penalties to Deflection, the barbarian's Stamina and Health meters are obscured for the duration. It's not uncommon for barbarians to suddenly drop unconscious -- or dead -- when their frenzies come to an end. Many of the barbarians' higher-level powers shine when they are surrounded by a throng of enemies, outnumbered and often badly-wounded. Even so, they are designed to burn brightly and expire brilliantly in the unfortunate event that a battle drags on. Due to the nature of their abilities, barbarians are a higher-maintenance class than fighters.​

As usual, the full update includes lists of some of their special abilities. There's also a new portrait, of an unnamed female human. Perhaps this is a character from the E3 demo? Speaking of which, Brandon Adler has a bit to say about that:

Hey, everyone. This is Brandon Adler. I just wanted to give you a quick update about our E3 presentation.

Everything went really well and the game was well received by the gaming press. We gave short ten to fifteen minute demos in which we showed off the first few areas and explained the basic concepts of the game. After the demo we had a quick question and answer session and gave any interviews that we could fit in before the next batch of journalists. All in all, it was a grueling, yet rewarding, experience.

There have been some questions about why we chose to do a closed door demo for the press and have not released footage from the demo. While the demo looked great, there are still parts of the game that need more polish before we release videos to the public. In addition, a lot of the demo footage was filled with spoilers and we would like to show off portions that are less critical to the story. Look for a video that shows some non-spoiler, polished gameplay sometime in the next couple of months.
Good to hear. I wonder if it will be a video from the beta, which will probably be released not long after.
 

Perkel

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let's see if that "front line" thinking will work with RTwP and AI controlled enemies.

I bet 4$ that as soon as battle starts AI will simply rush at closest target and AI won't be looking for "front line" at all proving that front line and Real time can't exist together.
 

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let's see if that "front line" thinking will work with RTwP and AI controlled enemies.

I bet 4$ that as soon as battle starts AI will simply rush at closest target and AI won't be looking for "front line" at all proving that front line and Real time can't exist together.

This post is ridiculous and you are dumb.
 

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let's see if that "front line" thinking will work with RTwP and AI controlled enemies.

I bet 4$ that as soon as battle starts AI will simply rush at closest target and AI won't be looking for "front line" at all proving that front line and Real time can't exist together.

This post is ridiculous and you are dumb.

Joined: Mar 28, 2014

:M
 

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So, I guess the talk about players being free to develop their characters however they like was a lie. This update clearly proves the only option available for the fighter is a female tank. Cancelled my preorder.
 
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Perkel

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Yeah AoO were in both NWNs and didn't work. Sure you get additional attack or two but because of HP bloat those hits were meaningless.
Talk is cheap and no game ever did front line with real time battle system that actually worked.

Problem is also with combat design. Enemies shouldn't be suecidal but almost all RPG make them like that and thus some dude can target your mage ignoring 4 fighters and so on...

TB is what makes front line work.
 

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Yeah AoO were in both NWNs and didn't work.

This isn't AoO, it's melee engagement. The character that passes by the front line is literally locked in place and stops moving.

Furthermore, what you're saying isn't true even without that. I've formed effective front lines in plenty of RTwP games.
 
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AoO worked in NWN2, worked too much in fact because it didn't forgive the AI jittering around for no reason
 

Perkel

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Yeah AoO were in both NWNs and didn't work.

This isn't AoO, it's melee engagement. The character that passes by the front line is literally locked in place and stops moving.

Furthermore, what you're saying isn't true even without that. I've formed effective front lines in plenty of RTwP games.

By blocking physically door area. Compare that to TB system in ToEE where you can do that in open space. Even Josh says it doesn't work in IE games (and in most of RT games).

Talking is cheap. Lets see it first then decide if it works or not. Idea is good problem is AI and i can't remember game which didn't make enemies suicidal maniacs trying to kill your mage at all costs completely ignoring your 3 fighters with 3 big axes.


AoO worked in NWN2, worked too much in fact because it didn't forgive the AI jittering around for no reason

As mechanic worked but its purpose was completely irrelevant as you get AoO hit and its like 10% of enemy life pool. Front line in NWN simply meant minor hurdle to enemy focused on killing your mage.
 

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Man it is almost like Obsidian hasn't gone to great lengths to explain exactly how this system works! I am sure this amateur AI problem is impenetrable and cannot be figured out by a video game company that does this shit for a living, and forums poster Perkel has the fucking inside scoop.
 

Perkel

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Man it is almost like Obsidian hasn't gone to great lengths to explain exactly how this system works! I am sure this amateur AI problem is impenetrable and cannot be figured out by a video game company that does this shit for a living.

I will take my words when i will see battle as fallows:

Formation gets surrounded by 6 malee focused enemies in open terrain, each AI takes different target> 3 Fighters encircle 3 weak characters protecting them > only 1 enemy or none from 6 reach those chars.

What all RTC party based games do:

Formation gets surrounded by 6 malee focused enemies in open terrain, each AI takes different target> 3 Fighters encircle 3 weak characters protecting them > all 3 enemy characters with bruises reach 3 weak chars and start clubbing them.

edit: We assume that P party malee characters are spec in front line or defense with no shit like duelists etc.
 

Perkel

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I'm sure the devs will build their game to suit your demands.

such elitist demands. I simply doubt that can deliver proper front line with RTC system. They are free to prove me wrong and i will be happy if they will prove me wrong.
 

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Hope game won't throw horders of barbarians on you cause lolo rush ignoring all tanks and slaughter all support chars, then die carnaging shit out of everyone reminds me of exploding skeletons in IWD1.
Lolo I ignore your armor because I have BRUTT FORK is also kinda derp. Or will armor raise both DeflC and Fort? Or is it just saving throws for like, stun and other abilities?

also,
barbarian's Stamina and Health meters are obscured for the duration
cause his companions are blind and can't see how many swords are sticking out of him. Makes for kinda useless ability since it's not very strategic, I liked Minsc's Rage better - at least you could heal him or put an otiluke sphere on him if he was dying.
And on high difficulties that actually means you're killing your barb without knowing it - on lower he'd just rest for a while on a floor when his stamina runs out, but on higher chars can die in combat and don't come back, right?
 
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Perkel

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On topic of front line gamplay again.

I wonder if including 75% enemy speed debuf upon reaching front line + high chance of stun/crippling enemy moving past front line would do better than just AoO. With that front line would be serious matter and even if fighter will be avoided by enemy, fighter due to speed debuf on enemy can easily again make front line cathing up to him and again have high chance of stunning/crit him.

This way you would have realistic movable front line that in case of outnumbered by enemy can backpedal with range chars providing support.

Or maybe weapon reach like area in which characters can't move like normal unless they will backpedal. This way 3 fighters could easily hold whole stack of goblins occasionally hurting some of them in process and hold line.


Though programming that probably would be nightmare as game would need to assume too many things (like which way characters created front line etc) and at the same time introducing something like backward movement. Bugs probably render this mechanic meaningless as game would often assume wrongly situations.
 

Volourn

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"Yeah AoO were in both NWNs and didn't work."

Bullshit. It worked perfectly.


"Front line in NWN simply meant minor hurdle to enemy focused on killing your mage."

No. Only if you played wrong and dumb.
 

Perkel

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It didn't fucking work because enemies and player characters had bloated HP. Enemies catching into continuous AoO isn't proof it works. It is proof of bad AI and bugs.
 

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Or will armor raise both DeflC and Fort? Or is it just saving throws for like, stun and other abilities?

None of these. Armor = DT. Remember that?
Oh right, okay. So Deflection is what, Reflexes?...
....wait, shouldn't it be other way around then, reflexes beat brute force, brute force beats fortitude?..
I don't get it.

Perhaps the idea is that your swing is so large that your enemy can't dodge it. Instead he has to "absorb" it, so Fortitude.
 

Perkel

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Or will armor raise both DeflC and Fort? Or is it just saving throws for like, stun and other abilities?

None of these. Armor = DT. Remember that?
Oh right, okay. So Deflection is what, Reflexes?...
....wait, shouldn't it be other way around then, reflexes beat brute force, brute force beats fortitude?..
I don't get it.

Perhaps the idea is that your swing is so large that your enemy can't dodge it. Instead he has to "absorb" it, so Fortitude.

Yeah imo it looks exactly like that.
 

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That makes no sense but thankfully I looked up the wiki and it actually looks more like an ability to block (shields raise DEF) http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Defense
So I'd rather think of it as hits so strong that they destroy shields/can't be blocked. So that way my medievalfag's head won't explode from all the gamism.

So I guess chars with high reflexes (rogues?) would actually dodge slow powerful barbarians and everyone is happy. I hope.
 

Perkel

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cause his companions are blind and can't see how many swords are sticking out of him. Makes for kinda useless ability since it's not very strategic, I liked Minsc's Rage better - at least you could heal him or put an otiluke sphere on him if he was dying.
And on high difficulties that actually means you're killing your barb without knowing it - on lower he'd just rest for a while on a floor when his stamina runs out, but on higher chars can die in combat and don't come back, right?

Actually i think it is good idea to obscure it. It gives actual reason to think about usage of it instead of being spam ability and kind of "fits" rage.
 

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