A cyberpunk tactical RPG - Zion

[OSK]

I like tactical RPGs.

 

[Victor Pflug]

Ok, you can't tell me this looks 'too clean'. It's a rusty bucket of beaten plasteel and jammed gears damnit.

Note that I don't really feel the need to defend my work, I just finished that doodad and now I'm bored.

 

[DefJam101]

Okay, that looks great, but it doesn't go with floating zeppelins or Victorian lamp posts.

 

[thesheeep]

Okay, that looks great, but it doesn't go with floating zeppelins or Victorian lamp posts.

Uh... and why?
Victorian is just a style. One that can be used in any fictive setting.

One could argue that a civilization that is advanced enough to have those kinda sci-fi trucks doesn't need zeppelins. But that is very, very thin ice
Probably people just like them. And maybe they are safe and cheap in that world...

 

[Naked Ninja]

Looks great (except for the aforementioned anime chars, but not going to belabor that point.)

 

[Victor Pflug]

Okay, that looks great, but it doesn't go with floating zeppelins or Victorian lamp posts.

I guess it's just a matter of taste then, cause I think the truck looks dope with victorian style gas lamps next to it.

In the year 2300 all that old victorian stuff will be heritage listed just like it is now, and never be torn down. Robots will likely be repainting the ancient gas lamps by then.

 

[Castanova]

Looks great. I don't care if the characters look like anime faggotry as long as the game plays like a superior version of Final Fantasy Tactics.

 

[shihonage]

Looks awesome, except for the anime characters. They are not awesome.

 

[hal900x]

Don't listen to the folks that are trying to pigeonhole you into an established style. I could care less if the atmosphere is 'correct' for steampunk vs cyberpunk vs capitalist hell vs label label label etc. In fact, just the opposite, since all of those have been done to death. I like your mix, it's refreshing. If your game hits, then you'll have the satisfaction that it did so because you stayed true to your own vision.

Except for the anime-styled character models. Those are the inverse of everything I praised you for above.

 

[Zeus]

 

[hal900x]

I thought these were from SNATCHERS. I wonder who stole whose models? Like a lot of landmark games of the time, I skipped over Syndicate. Which is awesome, since I get to enjoy them now from a fresh perspective.

 

[Mefi]

Ok, you can't tell me this looks 'too clean'. It's a rusty bucket of beaten plasteel and jammed gears damnit.

Note that I don't really feel the need to defend my work, I just finished that doodad and now I'm bored.

Like that a lot. The zeppelins would look excellent done in that kind of 'style' - unless they're alien, in which case make them look more alien Can see what people mean by 'too clean' in the mockups. More like an ambience thing. The whole Gibson cyberpunk is set in that twilight zone between the clean sharp edges of corporate legality and the grimy back streets of the underworld and dispossessed. Obviously, that kind of feel will come out more as you get further down the line with the effects. You could actually do cyberpunk in an anime style (Akira? Ghost in the Shell?) but the artwork is done in a more 'realistic' fashion if you see what I mean. edit: and the Steampunk genre also has that Victorian London in the fog kind of feel to it too mixed in with the imperial type buildings.

One thing to keep in mind about the Codex is that we're the idiot savant population of the net. We are fucking idiots and you'll get OTT criticism. But we do know what we like. And if we're engaging in discussing a game this much, you've already got a game which has grabbed our interest and you will get feedback which will reflect the segment of the market who will still quite happily play X-Com and JA. That's kind of my way of saying, welcome and hope you'll continue to engage without being put off by the style of debate we have round here

 

[Victor Pflug]

Ok, you can't tell me this looks 'too clean'. It's a rusty bucket of beaten plasteel and jammed gears damnit.

Note that I don't really feel the need to defend my work, I just finished that doodad and now I'm bored.

Like that a lot. The zeppelins would look excellent done in that kind of 'style' - unless they're alien, in which case make them look more alien Can see what people mean by 'too clean' in the mockups. More like an ambience thing. The whole Gibson cyberpunk is set in that twilight zone between the clean sharp edges of corporate legality and the grimy back streets of the underworld and dispossessed. Obviously, that kind of feel will come out more as you get further down the line with the effects. You could actually do cyberpunk in an anime style (Akira? Ghost in the Shell?) but the artwork is done in a more 'realistic' fashion if you see what I mean. edit: and the Steampunk genre also has that Victorian London in the fog kind of feel to it too mixed in with the imperial type buildings.

One thing to keep in mind about the Codex is that we're the idiot savant population of the net. We are fucking idiots and you'll get OTT criticism. But we do know what we like. And if we're engaging in discussing a game this much, you've already got a game which has grabbed our interest and you will get feedback which will reflect the segment of the market who will still quite happily play X-Com and JA. That's kind of my way of saying, welcome and hope you'll continue to engage without being put off by the style of debate we have round here

Thanks Mefi, actually I don't mind harsh criticism at all. I was forewarned about the caustic nature of these boards, but I came here for unfettered and objective crits and thats what I recieved.
On that note thanks to everyone for posting in this thread, I really appreciate all the advice and criticism, good or bad. It helps me to stay on my toes creatively, sort of crystallizes some ideas and forces me to question others. Like a make or break kinda deal. Trial by flame.

 

[snoek]

looks quite nice.
about the clean/dirty look.
I imagine there's still new stuff being built.
Everyday i get out i see the most shining almost mirror like sports cars, yet i also see the most rusty, beaten old cars with moss growing in the passenger compartiment. Same goes for brand new skyscrapers & burned out/neglected squatt houses
Also, blimps don't have to drive over dusty roads, and they're built out of some polymer or whatever. So great job on the environment & props.
However, as said many times before, the characters could really use smaller heads, that would make it more immersive for me at least. Keep up the good work!

 

[spacemoose]

looks grate

 

[Murk]

Punks normally do not look like final faggotry characters. Those that do, get brutally beaten by their peers.

Oh god...

Already retarded hair styles with retarded colors are everywhere - make your character with a normal haircut if you want, but in the future I'm sure trendy hair will be much more ridiculous, and pervasive, than it is now. Get off of what you want and try to think of what fits.

 

[bloodychill]

I'm Justin, programmer and gameplay designer for Zion. I'm going to talk about gameplay some.

The battle gameplay basically takes a nod from other tactical RPG's like Fallout and Final Fantasy Tactics, but with heavy focus on skills derived from classes which develop as the characters gain experience. You basically get an attack, a move, and an orient. You can also throw grenades (think X-Com or 223) and some other fun stuff. Lots of fun weaponry to use, ranging from knives and samurai blades to SMGs, lasers, and plasma cannons.

As far as character development (non-story), you have six characters from start to finish. Since the game is story-driven, they have set names but you completely direct their development in terms of stats and abilities/skills.

In terms of story, we plan to have 35+ story missions (many of which are written at this time, many of which are not), and as many side missions as we can think up. Talby came up with some pretty cool side missions that he can post if he wishes.

As far as code goes, huge portions of the engine are coded and even tested, but a lot is not.

Regarding the look and feel of the game that people have been talking about in this thread, we went with stylistic/anime characters because they're terribly easy to animate well compared to more realistic characters. We're looking at 50 different characters in the game with 20+ animations each, and right now, we only have one animator (I already have a strong feeling animation is going to be the major problem in terms of getting this game done quickly). If Victor can make some sprites that look more realistic, well-done, and are easy to animate, I'll be all for it. I have a feeling things are going to be stylized to some extent even if it isn't animu "fagginess" or whatever. I can also tell you there will be dyed hair and mohawks, because I like dyed hair and mohawks.

 

[poocolator]

This looks like that Habbo shit.

 

[Murk]

I'm Justin, programmer and gameplay designer for Zion. I'm going to talk about gameplay some.

The battle gameplay basically takes a nod from other tactical RPG's like Fallout and Final Fantasy Tactics, but with heavy focus on skills derived from classes which develop as the characters gain experience. You basically get an attack, a move, and an orient. You can also throw grenades (think X-Com or 223) and some other fun stuff. Lots of fun weaponry to use, ranging from knives and samurai blades to SMGs, lasers, and plasma cannons.

As far as character development (non-story), you have six characters from start to finish. Since the game is story-driven, they have set names but you completely direct their development in terms of stats and abilities/skills.

Would you be willing/able to share some of the class types or character builds possible? Perhaps a list of skills and a bit more detail on how characters would be developed (stats auto increase per level, you get a certain amount of points you put in, stats don't increase only skills do, etc.)?

 

[mondblut]

You complain that colored hair doesn't mesh with Cyberpunk (whaaa?) and when people politely point out that, yes, hair dye is *probably* alive and well in 2052, you change your complaint to them looking "final faggotry"?

You can read, do you?

I complain that THIS

doesn't "mesh with cyberpunk", nor with anything else a person with taste would ever consider touching.

 

[Korgan]

Fuck you, Sailor Moon is a classic. Not good at all, certainly, but still a cultural icon.

 

[Mefi]

doesn't "mesh with cyberpunk", nor with anything else a person with taste would ever consider touching.

Any objection to this kind of style? Better proportioned (as in closer to realistic) human figures makes a huge difference.

---

Ripped this from the Zion site, fills in more about the game:

Story

ZION follows the story of six very different people struggling against a futuristic dystopian alien government known as the Rammus who tracks their every move and punishs them severely for even the smallest mistake. Even more fearsome are their own personal demons they also struggle against.
Gameplay

The game is a turn-based strategy RPG - if you’ve played Final Fantasy Tactics, then you have a good idea of the gameplay flow found in our game. Players will be able to do such diverse tactics as spreading retroviruses to enemies, hacking or disabling their implants, shooting them with futuristic weapons, using psychic powers to convince them they’re 10 year old girls, and loading them up with and getting them addicted to mind-altering drugs. If you can think of a way to whoop some butt, chance’s are you’ll be able to do it in Zion. We’re not trying to reinvent the wheel here, we’re just trying to make that wheel was fun to play as possible.
Characters

Please excuse my poor drawing skills!
Sandra

A troubled young woman from the late 20th century, Sandra lost both of her parents, both research scientists, when a biological weapon the American government created was released in a lab accident. She has since lived on the streets of New York City as a thief. Having become addicted to heroin, she has been disowned by the rest of her family and has become lost on the streets until, in a strange incident, she is pulled forward in time several centuries into a prison riot. Rescued by another inmate, Eric, she has been swept into events she could have never imagined and may be more important than she realizes.
Eric

A strong young man, Eric grew up in Brooklyn of New York City and formed a small street gang with his childhood friends. His father was a smalltime businessman who was killed by some Rammus soldiers who believed they were in the right when they insisted he remove some human patrons so that they could sit down. Since then, he has done anything in his power to cause harm to the Rammus and has slowly become more and more brutal, his personality traveling over the edge at times. When his gang hacked a Rammus corporation mainframe and later bombed one of their power plants, Eric stayed behind and provided cover so the rest of his gang could escape. He was wounded and then sent to a high security jail on death row.
Ken

Ken is Eric’s best friend and the leader of their street gang. His parents were members of the Northern Tribes who moved to the city because they wanted their young son to go to the University there. While studying at the university, his parents, friends of Eric’s family, were killed in the same firefight which resulted in Eric’s father’s death. His specialty is hacking, though he seems to have an… unhealthy love of machines. Unbeknownst to him, he possesses some alien DNA which could prove to be both a boon and a danger to him.
Coyote

Coyote is a tribeswoman of the Elonta that live near the tribe Eric’s family came from. Filled with a fervent love of nature, she is a warrior for her tribe and fights with her advanced psychic powers. As part of the Rammus government’s attempt to take the Wilds under control to tap their resources, they attack Coyote’s tribe by sending their elite, anti-psychic force, the Gaz. Coyote and her kin defend the village and kill many of their force but they ultimately lose and Coyote is taken prisoner. The Rammus greatly fear human telepaths and psychics and thus she is being tortured at a security station when Ken’s gang attacks it.
Troa

Troa is a Rammus who worked as a security officer at the station where Coyote is being tortured and rescues her when his conscience gets the best of him. He finds himself in a sticky situation when the other officers get his back against a wall, but is “saved” by Ken’s gang. They take him prisoner as they escape only to need his help when they get pinned down by Rammus reinforcements.
Kira

Kira is a space pirate, the captain of a spaceship which scours the galaxy in search of technology from before the Apocalypse and plundering the Rammus Empire when possible. Eric has kept in contact with her since she saved him from death during the battle in his father’s restaurant. Of the six main characters, she alone knows the true history of the galaxy and Earth.

Fairly typical 'archetypes' within the genres. The drug use is interesting to see in a game (hardly fluffy bunny stuff) but not exceptional outside either genre being cited as stylistic influences.

If the options listed are not just 'combat' related (eg psychic powers to convince enemies) then this game has immense possibilities beyond the tactical shooter base.

 

[Black Cat]

@mondblut

Are you really stating that the same style that gave us Blame!, Noise, and Biomega doesn't mesh well with Cyberpunk? Are you, like, retarded or something?

 

[Emotional Vampire]

"Are you retarded?" asks the weeaboo.

Now that is the shit I live for.

No wait. That's not it

 

[ghostdog]

Anime can mesh perfectly with Cyberpunk. One has only to look at Ghost In The Shell, Cowboy Bebop, Akira, Battle Angel and many more. Especially the Ghost in the Shell movies/series are fucking cyberpunk masterpieces.

Of course most of the above have a rather mature visual style with mostly realistic faces/environments. Some ignorant fools think that anime is just Sailormoon and Pokemon.

On the other hand, the fact remains that Zion's characters look too cutey for a mature cyberpunk setting. They are however very similar to the final fantasy tactics style, which ,if I'm not mistaken, is what they were aiming from the start. I've played FF tactics only barely, but I believe that what really matters in this game is to have many tactical options, balanced character progression and interesting skill/job combinations. Graphics are secondary.

Maybe you should try porting it to PSP.