After playing a lot of JRPGs, most CRPGs became tedious

[Sreggin Etah I]

It is a stereotype born of the JRPGs that are most likely to be the first and only exposure of those who dislike JRPGs. Final Fantasy VII, Chrono Trigger and Dragon Quest VIII because those achieved genre overreaching success. Particularily FFVIIs being Sony's flagship to sell the PSX. While I don't think FFVII or Chrono Trigger are overly slow games you can see how all of those stereotypes originate from those games.

Yeah, PSX JRPGs are slow because PSX loading times is shit, but it does not represent all JRPGs, he should Suikoden 1 and 2, battles are very fast in those.

 

[ChaDargo]

Nobody cares

probably true but what i am trying to say is that tastes on games changes over time, and once you get past the art-style and teenagers characters you can truly appreciate JRPGs for what they try to do, that's making the player have FUN while playing it.

That's exactly my problem, though. I can't get past the art style or the tween/teenage characters. A jrpg that didn't look like dogshit and had adults and (this is the most impossible of all) had a story that didn't make me want to take a nap and/or bash my head into a wall would make me agree with you.

 

[dacencora]

Nobody cares

probably true but what i am trying to say is that tastes on games changes over time, and once you get past the art-style and teenagers characters you can truly appreciate JRPGs for what they try to do, that's making the player have FUN while playing it.

That's exactly my problem, though. I can't get past the art style or the tween/teenage characters. A jrpg that didn't look like dogshit and had adults and (this is the most impossible of all) had a story that didn't make me want to take a nap and/or bash my head into a wall would make me agree with you.

SMT Strange Journey/Redux
SMT Nocturne
Shin Megami Tensei

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Also, each JRPG has it's own unique gameplay mechanics:

In SMT and Persona you can negotiate with demons and recruit them or get their cards:



There's a lot of JRPGs you can recruit monsters, i haven't seen this gameplay mechanic in WRPGs since Wizardry 4.

In Lufia 2 you had dungeons filled with puzzles and a Random-roguelike-style Dungeon.

Romancing Saga 2, Phantasy star III, Fire emblem Genealogy of the Holy war and Agarest war have a Generation system.

Tons of jobs/classes in Final Fantasy 5 and Tactics

Chapter based story with different characters in Romancing Saga games, Dragon Quest IV, Live a Live, Saga Frontier 1&2, 7th Saga

a lot of weird obscure mechanics in Unlimited Saga: http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/index.php/Games/G624-UnlimitedSaga

Private Action in Star Oceans.

in Breath of Fire III and IV there are different dragons transformations and some cool fairies town management.



JRPGs doesn't play all the same.

 

[Jaedar]

Very well doubters: Hit with me with your best "respects your time jrpg".

(This should not be taken as as me saying all CRPGs respect your time, stuff like wiz8 does exist)
((I have in the past liked chrono trigger enough to finish it, and FF6 to get halfway through, and as I kid I think I beat golden sun games a few times. I don't hate jrpgs, I just think they are particularly bad at the virtue of brevity))

 

[Thac0]

Very well doubters: Hit with me with your best "respects your time jrpg".

Personal favourites for very fast sub 30 hour JRPGs are Dragon Quest III, Final Fantasy IV, Suikoden I.
DQ and FF could also make it in my top 10, Suikoden in my top 30 because later games add a lot of stuff.
DQ III has full party creation except for the hero, party size 4.
FF IV has almost no gameplay customisation, everyone is locked into their class, play GBA or PSP version, do not get an American easy type.
Suikoden has party of 6, also wargame as a minigame, you play rebels conquering a kingdom.
DQIII and FFIV are fairly tough for JRPG standards, Suikoden is fairly easy.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Nobody cares

probably true but what i am trying to say is that tastes on games changes over time, and once you get past the art-style and teenagers characters you can truly appreciate JRPGs for what they try to do, that's making the player have FUN while playing it.

That's exactly my problem, though. I can't get past the art style or the tween/teenage characters. A jrpg that didn't look like dogshit and had adults and (this is the most impossible of all) had a story that didn't make me want to take a nap and/or bash my head into a wall would make me agree with you.

Well, i got used to it. If you want a more western friendly JRPG, can try:

Shin megami tensei series, i recommend you start with SMT1 on SNES, that game was a experience.
Front Mission 1
Fire Emblem 4 and 5
Vagrant Story (most western JRPG i've played)
Vandal Hearts
Fire Emblem Genealogy of the Holy War and thracia 776 , start with Genealogy , Thracia is fucking hard.
Tactics Ogre SNES and GBA
Ogre Battle
Final Fantasy Tactics
The Shinning force 1 and 2
Suikoden 1 and 2
Valkyrie Profile
Dragon Quest 3
Wizardry Gaiden IV - Throb of the Demon's Heart (it's not Wizardry IV)

You can also try Dark Half on SNES, that game starts with you playing as the main villain, killing innocent folks and sucking their soul.

 

[jackofshadows]

and once you get past the art-style and teenagers characters you can truly appreciate JRPGs for what they try to do

Yeah... NO THANKS.

 

[Anonona]

Very well doubters: Hit with me with your best "respects your time jrpg".

(This should not be taken as as me saying all CRPGs respect your time, stuff like wiz8 does exist)
((I have in the past liked chrono trigger enough to finish it, and FF6 to get halfway through, and as I kid I think I beat golden sun games a few times. I don't hate jrpgs, I just think they are particularly bad at the virtue of brevity))

I'll say Breath of Fire Dragon's Quarter. No random encounters, enemies do not respawn. Can avoid enemies on the map, set traps and use bait to set up the battlefield. You are on a time limit, wasting time is the last thing you want to do. Can be beaten at low levels with good tactics.

Edit: Also resources like money and exp are limited. You are encouraged to try and fight as many enemies as possible at once to gain more exp per encounter, but not take a risk so big you are left out of healing objects before reaching the next safe point.

Edit2: Minimalistic plot. You wont have long cutscene with tons of dialogue.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Very well doubters: Hit with me with your best "respects your time jrpg".

(This should not be taken as as me saying all CRPGs respect your time, stuff like wiz8 does exist)
((I have in the past liked chrono trigger enough to finish it, and FF6 to get halfway through, and as I kid I think I beat golden sun games a few times. I don't hate jrpgs, I just think they are particularly bad at the virtue of brevity))

> https://store.steampowered.com/app/1413480/Shin_Megami_Tensei_III_Nocturne_HD_Remaster/?

 

[AdamReith]

Time waster mechanics definitely came into JRPGs at some point but you won't find many of them in the classics.

Of course, if you consider brutal encounter rates a time waster mechanic there's not much that can be done about that as it's one of the staples of the genre. If you enjoy the combat though it's really not a problem at all.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Time waster mechanics definitely came into JRPGs at some point but you won't find many of them in the classics.

Of course, if you consider brutal encounter rates a time waster mechanic there's not much that can be done about that as it's one of the staples of the genre. If you enjoy the combat though it's really not a problem at all.

People who don't like Random Emcounters should play Strategy RPGs, start with Vandal Hearts or Shinning Force(if you don't mind lightheartedness) then go Fire Emblem 4 and 5.

 

[dacencora]

Very well doubters: Hit with me with your best "respects your time jrpg".

(This should not be taken as as me saying all CRPGs respect your time, stuff like wiz8 does exist)
((I have in the past liked chrono trigger enough to finish it, and FF6 to get halfway through, and as I kid I think I beat golden sun games a few times. I don't hate jrpgs, I just think they are particularly bad at the virtue of brevity))

> https://store.steampowered.com/app/1413480/Shin_Megami_Tensei_III_Nocturne_HD_Remaster/?

He’s not going to like it because he was complaining about random encounters every few steps, which Nocturne has in abundance. It is a fantastic game, and I’m not knocking the random encounters at all. In fact, SMT games have the best random encounters, IMO.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Very well doubters: Hit with me with your best "respects your time jrpg".

(This should not be taken as as me saying all CRPGs respect your time, stuff like wiz8 does exist)
((I have in the past liked chrono trigger enough to finish it, and FF6 to get halfway through, and as I kid I think I beat golden sun games a few times. I don't hate jrpgs, I just think they are particularly bad at the virtue of brevity))

> https://store.steampowered.com/app/1413480/Shin_Megami_Tensei_III_Nocturne_HD_Remaster/?

He’s not going to like it because he was complaining about random encounters every few steps, which Nocturne has in abundance. It is a fantastic game, and I’m not knocking the random encounters at all. In fact, SMT games have the best random encounters, IMO.

He should play Lufia 2 then. No random encounters, fun dungeons, good pacing.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

That's exactly my problem, though. I can't get past the art style or the tween/teenage characters. A jrpg that didn't look like dogshit and had adults and (this is the most impossible of all) had a story that didn't make me want to take a nap and/or bash my head into a wall would make me agree with you.

Also another reason to play Vandal Hearts:

 

[Machocruz]

Blob parties, can't use members as individual units + enemy interaction is sequestered into it's own dimension so can't scout ahead, set up ambushes, divide and conquer, kite, etc . Non combat skill usage is minimal. Low dungeon and town interactivity.

Fire Emblem has all of those things. Kiting/ambush set ups/divide and conquer, etc. The subgenre of SRPGs do all of that. However, non-combat skills are still minimal, if used at all.

I played a couple of the GBA ones and I dig them, but they are a different kind of game. No adventuring layer to even use non-combat skills.

 

[Falksi]

Very well doubters: Hit with me with your best "respects your time jrpg".

(This should not be taken as as me saying all CRPGs respect your time, stuff like wiz8 does exist)
((I have in the past liked chrono trigger enough to finish it, and FF6 to get halfway through, and as I kid I think I beat golden sun games a few times. I don't hate jrpgs, I just think they are particularly bad at the virtue of brevity))

Shining Force 2. It's pacing is superb, no fucking about, everything is about the there and now. You can grind if you want, but if you play smart you don't have to, so it rewards you for playing smart.

Tales of Berseria. Again, amazingly paced. Brilliant party banter, and I mean some of the best which I've experienced in RPGs in general, pop up at the right times throughout dungeons & exploration to constantly keep it feeling fresh.

 

[dacencora]

Blob parties, can't use members as individual units + enemy interaction is sequestered into it's own dimension so can't scout ahead, set up ambushes, divide and conquer, kite, etc . Non combat skill usage is minimal. Low dungeon and town interactivity.

Fire Emblem has all of those things. Kiting/ambush set ups/divide and conquer, etc. The subgenre of SRPGs do all of that. However, non-combat skills are still minimal, if used at all.

I played a couple of the GBA ones and I dig them, but they are a different kind of game. No adventuring layer to even use non-combat skills.

Yep they are solely tactical simulators with a heavy smattering of Visual Novel in the most recent entries. I would love to see a traditional cRPG with that "adventuring layer" with a FE-style combat layer. I think Gold Box games are closest to that ideal, but they are a bit clunky, and they don't really have any dialogue choices (at least for the ones that I have played). Dark Sun and KOTC1 are also very close to that ideal, but KOTC1 is still very combat-focused and Dark Sun doesn’t have a grid, which is a major part of the Fire Emblem combat system.

 

[JDR13]

JRPGs tend to have much better quality control, art and music.

 

[mogwaimon]

well the quality control and music bit are certainly true, many of the CRPG classics touted by the Codex end up requiring fan patches to fix gamebreaking bugs and you'd be hard pressed to find a CRPG composer with the cred of Uematsu or Shimomura, IMO.

 

[AdamReith]

JRPGs tend to have much better quality control, art and music.

Here's some art for you, philistine.

 

[Falksi]

JRPGs tend to have much better quality control, art and music. They are less likely to bait and switch you with a great opening chapter or whatever.

I do find they never hit the heights of something like Swordflight but if you want to play RPGs as a "hobby" there are actually enough great JRPGs to keep you going for a long time.

With CRPGs you taste a truly great one and then spend the next few days rooting through garbage like an addict suffering withdrawal.

Serpent in the Staglands is a good example of early bait which bit me.

I fucking LUUURRRVVVVEEE that intro. I mean it is so ridiculously atmospheric and incredible that even thinking about it now makes me want to play it again.

But it delivers fuck all, other than a very barren, lacklustre world with little to discover, little to interact with, and shite combat.

I'm gagging for a sequel built on those foundations, but for a good 5-10 hours I thought I was in for a classic. Then boom, 20 hours later and I'm fucking itching inside like fuck to find the game I was playing 20 hours earlier.

I know that if most JRPGs grab me early doors, 9/10 times I'll stick with it to the end.

 

[Vlajdermen]

Let me invade this forum to ask a question. Is Final Fantasy 12 any good? I've been on the fence with it for a while.

 

[JDR13]

I am invading this forum to ask a question. Is Final Fantasy 12 any good? I've been on the fence with it for a while.

Imo, it was the last single-player FF game they made that's worth playing.

 

[Anonona]

I am invading this forum to ask a question. Is Final Fantasy 12 any good? I've been on the fence with it for a while.

It's hard to say, as it is a very divisive game.

It is RtwP, where you manage a party of 3 but can change party members mid combat. The game allows a significant amount of customization thanks to the license system, allowing you to equip your character with numerous spells and different kind of weapons. You have interesting systems like Quickening, Esper summoning among others that help spice up the combat. Buffing and debuffing is important, and for regular enemies status effects are very useful. Ok difficulty, can throw some curveballs at times. Tons of content, sidequest and big maps to explore, a lot of them with very interesting little details like wandering NPCs that may help you and such. The Gambit system is great and I wish it had become a staple of the genre. Art direction and music are fantastic, and the graphics look great, they are pretty much late era PS2, when developers had tons of experience with the console, but in HD if you play the PC version which looks even better.

It also has some flaws of many of RtwP games, namely that melee jobs are quite a lot more boring compared to other FFs. They are pretty much auto-attack machines, while the mages get all the cool toys. Also the spell selection may feel a little bit small compared to other games, but is still pretty decent.

The plot is interesting, but is painfully obvious that there was a lot of executive meddling on the development. In particular the characters of Van and Penelope are pretty bad, specially the second. Not so much because they are badly written, but because they are obviously unnecessary, specially Penelope. They are the definition of "tag-along kid", which is even more bafling because if the wanted a teenage hero, they could had gone with the tutorial character, which had at least a bit more to do with the plot of the game. Basically, Princess Ashe and Balthier are the real protagonists of the game.

Overall, I would recommend it, but perhaps you would want to try it out before buying.