Interview Age of Decadence - Defining RPGs Once Again

[Double Ogre]

Unfortunately, nobody really cares about 200MB worth of inactive sprites, especially since the mirrored ones look much better.

Now you are just being stupid.

HUR! HUR!

 

[Kingston]

We've heard you the first time. Unfortunately, nobody really cares about 200MB worth of inactive sprites, especially since the mirrored ones look much better.

Well, that was a bit retarded. Sure, the new sprites don't improve the game's visuals radically, but they certainly look better, especially on some of the more complex characters like robots. And 200 megabytes of useless content is retarded no matter what way you put it. They could've removed that, or kept it from being installed automatically if they were intending to fix it at some date.

 

[Darth Roxor]

How dare you people criticise ANYTHING Arcanum related?!/1 :declineofthecodex:

 

[Shannow]

lmao - nearly all of you trash arcanum even though it completely squashes FO1+2 in terms of C&C, story, plot, character creation, character progression, main story, etc etc

so don't give me that, FO1 is by far more popular than arcanum on this site.

No. (Did you expect more of a rise*g*)

 

[Volourn]

"Atari has stated several times that the NWN franchise is their main DnD cash cow and that they don't want to make other single player DnD games because they would compete with the NWN games and reduce sales. Duh."

Oh, please. If TOEE was such an amazing seller like you claim it was, and wa smaking Atari money; Atari would NOT hesitate to make an expansion, and sequel. It's silly talk to suggest otherwise.


"Yeah, I'm surprised myself why nobody outside of people who are interested in DnD is talking about a DnD game."

Except, the fact remains that DnD games that *are* successful tend to be played by more than just D&D fans. Do you think 2 mil+ people who bought NWN or BG were D&D fans? Come on, now. Don't be stupid.


"My only point was that the game did ok and wasn't a financial failure"

the fact remains it was. If it was finanical success, Troika would have gotten hired by some publisher to make another game. No matter how 'evil' internet geeks claim that publishers are, they simply would not pass up hiring a successful company that amkes successful games. That's ignorant of you to suggest otherwise.

 

[BonziBUDDY]

"Atari has stated several times that the NWN franchise is their main DnD cash cow and that they don't want to make other single player DnD games because they would compete with the NWN games and reduce sales. Duh."

Oh, please. If TOEE was such an amazing seller like you claim it was, and wa smaking Atari money; Atari would NOT hesitate to make an expansion, and sequel. It's silly talk to suggest otherwise.


"Yeah, I'm surprised myself why nobody outside of people who are interested in DnD is talking about a DnD game."

Except, the fact remains that DnD games that *are* successful tend to be played by more than just D&D fans. Do you think 2 mil+ people who bought NWN or BG were D&D fans? Come on, now. Don't be stupid.


"My only point was that the game did ok and wasn't a financial failure"

the fact remains it was. If it was finanical success, Troika would have gotten hired by some publisher to make another game. No matter how 'evil' internet geeks claim that publishers are, they simply would not pass up hiring a successful company that amkes successful games. That's ignorant of you to suggest otherwise.

Learn to use the fucking quote button man!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well, that was a bit retarded. Sure, the new sprites don't improve the game's visuals radically, but they certainly look better, especially on some of the more complex characters like robots.

Isn't that what I said? The new sprites look better.

And 200 megabytes of useless content is retarded no matter what way you put it.

Is that what we are bitching about now? The install file contains old files? What's next? The disk art sucks?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Is that what we are bitching about now? The install file contains old files? What's next? The disk art sucks?

No. The next is that some games have difficulty sliders and we're too big bitches to use them

 

[Vault Dweller]

"Atari has stated several times that the NWN franchise is their main DnD cash cow and that they don't want to make other single player DnD games because they would compete with the NWN games and reduce sales. Duh."

Oh, please. If TOEE was such an amazing seller like you claim it was, and wa smaking Atari money; Atari would NOT hesitate to make an expansion, and sequel. It's silly talk to suggest otherwise.

a) Atari isn't really the smartest player. It's a miracle that the dumbfucks are still in business, so let's not construct arguments like "if it made sense, don't you think Atari would have...". No, they wouldn't have.

b) I'm not claiming anything, my friend with reading disabilities. In their 10-k report Atari stated that ToEE was their best selling RPG in 2003 (outperforming two NWN expansions) and their third best PC game. If only you could read AND comprehend at the same time.

Except, the fact remains that DnD games that *are* successful tend to be played by more than just D&D fans. Do you think 2 mil+ people who bought NWN or BG were D&D fans? Come on, now. Don't be stupid.

What makes BG a DnD game? Spells? Classes? Dungeons and dragons?

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Is that what we are bitching about now? The install file contains old files? What's next? The disk art sucks?

No. The next is that some games have difficulty sliders and we're too big bitches to use them

In all honesty, I've never seen an RPG difficulty slider that really did jack shit going from the core difficulty upwards. It just ups enemy stats, it doesn't give them more abilities, add new enemies in, change the game rules, add in new bosses, etc. Which means the same exploits/cheap strategies with still work. For KOTOR/KOTOR2 the difficulty slider wouldn't do much. Enemies were still susceptible to the same cheap tactics, only now they had more HP and damage reduction, so the only added "challenge" was not succumbing to boredom while continuously spamming one of the myriad broken abilities whether it be force wave, force storm, flurry, rapid shot, etc. Fact is, RPGs are the shittiest games when it comes to creating multiple difficulty settings.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Is that what we are bitching about now? The install file contains old files? What's next? The disk art sucks?

No. The next is that some games have difficulty sliders and we're too big bitches to use them

What's a difficulty slider?

Is it:

a) a magical device that makes an easy game harder by restoring the balance and introducing AI and tactics?

or

b) a cheat mode that gives your enemies 10,000 extra hit points and increases their damage by 200%, making the game still easy but painful?

If it's the "a", then I'm indeed a dumbfuck for not using it. If it's the "b"...

 

[SmokedWolf]

ummm...

you want to know how publishers work?

this an example from across media.. the film business
http://www.riskybusinessblog.com/2009/0 ... movie.html

arguably this film will almost certainly make a return but currently no publisher is willing to outlay the money to get that return because there is risk involved with the film being far from "mainstream".

This is a with a film that has already been made in a business in which money is thrown at turd after turd.



With troika failing to find a publisher the most likely thing would be that no publisher was willing to take the risk on a follow up to toee as it was a marginal success on a niche project.

Publishers want big returns on their big outlays, only so much cash available and can't lay down 2 mil for a game if return is going to be 2.1 mil.

 

[Volourn]

"expansions"

L0LZ



"Publishers want big returns on their big outlays, only so much cash available and can't lay down 2 mil for a game if return is going to be 2.1 mil."

This is must explain why Interplay gave BIO BG despite the fact that BIo first, and only game wasn't exactly the biggest seller of all time. L0L

Publisher stake chances on developers, and games all the time; but if only they felt the risks wer wowrth it. Troika had 3 chances to make their mark in the business, and got those cahnces because of the Troika's owners past reputations. They failed 3 times hence why nobody wanted to work with them anymore.

3 publishers. 3 games. 3 failures.

No more Troika.


P.S. TOEE was no niche product. No more niche than BG or PST or IWD or Gb games.

 

[Double Ogre]

Well, that was a bit retarded. Sure, the new sprites don't improve the game's visuals radically, but they certainly look better, especially on some of the more complex characters like robots.

Isn't that what I said? The new sprites look better.

Except you actually said that the mirrored ones look better?

 

[Kingston]

Well, that was a bit retarded. Sure, the new sprites don't improve the game's visuals radically, but they certainly look better, especially on some of the more complex characters like robots.

Isn't that what I said? The new sprites look better.

No, you said the mirrored sprites looked better.

especially since the mirrored ones look much better.

And 200 megabytes of useless content is retarded no matter what way you put it.

Is that what we are bitching about now? The install file contains old files? What's next? The disk art sucks?

I think it's a valid complaint. What if Empire: Total War installed two gigabytes of data that did absolutely nothing? Besides, where does the bitching stop at at the Codex?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yes, the mirrored sprites look better (imo). Aren't they the new sprites that replaced the now inactive sprites?

 

[Double Ogre]

It's obvious that by "new sprites" Kingston meant the full frames that the unofficial patch puts back.

How can seriously prefer the gimped animations over the full ones? I mean, it's not like they're drawn differently, it's the same models, just rendered from different angles so that the animations look consistent.

 

[Pastel]

I bet you put 3 sugars in your coffee too. You're fucked up in the brain, VD, that's what you are.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It's obvious that by "new sprites" Kingston meant the full frames that the unofficial patch puts back.

So old is new now?

How can seriously prefer the gimped animations over the full ones? I mean, it's not like they're drawn differently, it's the same models, just rendered from different angles so that the animations look consistent.

Exactly. It's the same model. The difference is cosmetic and doesn't have any effect on the game. Now, if we had unanimated cardboard cutouts a-la Avernum vs the same animated models, the difference would be huge.

Sprite mirroring ON:

Sprite mirroring OFF:

I agree with Kingston that robots do look better and more detailed with the old (non-mirrored) sprites, but humanoids, who represent 80% of the game's fauna, look much better mirrored.

For example, in your above post, the first angle looks the same, the second is better mirrored, the third is about the same, the fourth one looks much better, etc.

 

[Double Ogre]

How can seriously prefer the gimped animations over the full ones? I mean, it's not like they're drawn differently, it's the same models, just rendered from different angles so that the animations look consistent.

Exactly. It's the same model. The difference is cosmetic and doesn't have any effect on the game. Now, if we had unanimated cardboard cutouts a-la Avernum vs the same animated models, the difference would be huge.

The example with the ogre wasn't very good, as I admitted. The difference is obvious when we see characters with weapons drawn out.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Ok, let's go through it:

The guy to the left looks better mirrored. Now, who likes what better is subjective, so do keep it in mind. The guy at the top (the rifleman) looks about the same. The little dude looks better mirrored (I don't like his unmirrored pose). The two guys to the right look about the same. The guy between two yellow-circled guys looks better mirrored. The guy in the middle (middle yellow circle) looks better unmirrored (the only one, I'd say). The armored guy at the bottom looks much better mirrored. Incorrect - because he's holding the sword in the left hand - but better.

 

[Double Ogre]

Here's the last one. Can't be more obvious than this.

Incorrect - because he's holding the sword in the left hand - but better.

R00fles! What kind of reasoning is that?

 

[beaker]

pedantic much?

 

[FeelTheRads]

At least about one thing Drog is right, some people just don't get it. It's not about if it looks better or not, according to some random grading system.
Here's an image to show what mirrored sprites means:

So, the top guys (A1 and A2) are the mirrored ones. That means, that the game will use the same frame for when the character is facing right and when he's facing left. It just mirrors the frame. It's obvious since the weapon and shield change hands.
The bottom guys are not mirrored. Which means that there is an entirely different frame rendered to show him from when facing the other direction. And as you can see the weapon and shield remain in the same hand.

But again, I don't find this to be that important. I guess a case could be made for the fact that they included them and wasted space, but who knows, maybe they intended to release a patch that would add them back. If that's so, I have no idea why they didn't.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Here's the last one. Can't be more obvious than this.

These ones do look better, but hardly enough to complain about the old sprites. Cosmetic difference.

Incorrect - because he's holding the sword in the left hand - but better.

R00fles! What kind of reasoning is that?

I meant that the sprite looks incorrect (unless he's left handed) but better.

At least about one thing Drog is right, some people just don't get it. It's not about if it looks better or not, according to some random grading system.
Here's an image to show what mirrored sprites means:

So, the top guys (A1 and A2) are the mirrored ones. That means, that the game will use the same frame for when the character is facing right and when he's facing left. It just mirrors the frame. It's obvious since the weapon and shield change hands.

Everyone gets it, but only a few people (who don't have anything better to do) care.