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RGE

Liturgist
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
773
Location
Karlstad, Sweden
Mikayel said:
... a woman in armor will probably be nigh indistinguishable from a man in armor ...
Yeah. To me it's a toss-up between realism and clarity. But of course it would be nice if one could have both. And different idle animations seems to be the easiest way to achieve that if you want to avoid making the women look like Barbiedolls with male skeletons.
 
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
355
Vault Dweller said:
elander_ said:
It's too late to make radical changes to the models isn't it? The advise to add more idle animations typical of different sex is a good advise and something that is doable in a small time frame.
Tweaking models would take no more than a few hours. Making animations would take much, much longer. Female skeletons are out of the question as that would require adjusting all animations and we have over 200 of those.

200 animations is child's play. But if you don't want to do that, I guess we could accept model tweaking. This really sounds like a cop-out to me.
 

buccaroobonzai

Liturgist
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
241
Vault Dweller said:
I wouldn't call it less practical though:

"There was also a party of slaves training to be gladiators. Completely encased in iron in the national fashion, these crupellarii, as they were called, were too clumsy for offensive purposes but impregnable in defence…the infantry made a frontal attack. The Gallic flanks were driven in. The iron-clad contingent caused some delay as their casing resisted javelins and swords. However, the Romans used axes and mattocks and struck at their plating and its wearers like men demolishing a wall. Others knocked down the immobile gladiators with poles and pitchforks , and, lacking the power to rise, they were left for dead." Tacitus, Annales, III 43

As you can see, "iron-clad" armor of that time didn't seem to provide superior protection, while superior mobility was an important factor to consider.

Tacitus explicitly states that the crupellarii were "impregnable in defence", and the armor completly resisted swords and javelins. They had to use other options then their standard weapons to break through the armor, as axes and mattocks were needed to chip away at it. This does mean that the iron clad armor provided superior protection against standard military issue weaponry, and required specific armor breaking weapons to be effective.
This could be a very fun and useful gameplay tactic where the player needs to use specific types of weapons/devices to counter specific defenses.
Other RPGs and hybrid RPGS have used elements like this to enhance their gameplay;
For example in Deus Ex EMP weaponry was much more effective against robots then small firearms.
 

Noceur

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
199
Location
Tar Pits
android said:
Having dealt with a similar problem lately (female body, male skeleton) this helped me greatly:



Other than the females the models look quite good.

:lol: I didn't know the ideal woman came with high-heels attached.
 

Hazelnut

Erudite
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
1,490
Location
UK
Vault Dweller said:
elander_ said:
It's too late to make radical changes to the models isn't it? The advise to add more idle animations typical of different sex is a good advise and something that is doable in a small time frame.
Tweaking models would take no more than a few hours. Making animations would take much, much longer. Female skeletons are out of the question as that would require adjusting all animations and we have over 200 of those.

So, you need to find a quick fix that gives a more feminine impression without creating exactly proportioned female skeletons. To me, the biggest problem was the arms, hands and feet. Too long and big. I don't think the legs are a problem, you can find very impressive legs on women, but even if very strong they tend not to have tree trunk arms. Hands and feet are always smaller than an equivalently sized male. I think altering those bits slightly should be enough to give a more feminie impression.


Also, nice to see you posting again Twinnie. I think that, knowing VD, there's not much chance of improbable shapes bouncing about AoD in chainmail bikini's. (thank god)
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,044
Hazelnut said:
So, you need to find a quick fix that gives a more feminine impression without creating exactly proportioned female skeletons. To me, the biggest problem was the arms, hands and feet. Too long and big.
That's what we ended up with:

newfemalepo1.jpg
 

Hazelnut

Erudite
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
1,490
Location
UK
Much better, although it really looks as if the heavy bags those models were carrying have been airbrushed out...

Shows how often I come here now, I didn't even notice that I was 19 days late on this thread. :roll:
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
VD do a female skeleton, seriously.
It isn't like you must release this game ASAP because evil publisher won't pay you money - so do it now, don't be lazy.
I'd rather wanted to see the game well polished with lots of nice small details.
 

janjetina

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
14,231
Location
Zagreb, Croatia
Torment: Tides of Numenera
Vault Dweller said:
Hazelnut said:
So, you need to find a quick fix that gives a more feminine impression without creating exactly proportioned female skeletons. To me, the biggest problem was the arms, hands and feet. Too long and big.
That's what we ended up with:

newfemalepo1.jpg

Regarding their arm position, are they suffering from the ILS (Imaginary Lat Syndrome)?
 

dagorkan

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
5,164
Vault Dweller said:
Hazelnut said:
So, you need to find a quick fix that gives a more feminine impression without creating exactly proportioned female skeletons. To me, the biggest problem was the arms, hands and feet. Too long and big.
That's what we ended up with:

newfemalepo1.jpg
They look fine to me, true the arms look a bit long but as long as you can tell them apart from men that's the important thing
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
Cloaked Figure said:
no who cares about the model i dont want this game to take 3 years longer because of 'small details'

Yeah right - it absolutely takes 3 years to change this shit.
Besides I would've waited for another year or two if I was sure that AoD won't turn into yet another mediocre indie excuse for a crpg (Drakensang/Eschalon, duh). And details are always important in this genre - so I, as a potential customer, don't want to hear from VD & Co that they are too lazy to fix something that small. Spend another week on it, sheesh. Nobody asks for a supa-dupa kewl graphix - but the game has to look at least somewhat aesthetically.
 

Jedi_Learner

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
894
skyway said:
And details are always important in this genre - so I, as a potential customer, don't want to hear from VD & Co that they are too lazy to fix something that small.
Small? You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
34,349
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The only gripe I have with the current female model is the face. It just doesn't look female. Make the cheeks more poofy or something.
 

Hazelnut

Erudite
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
1,490
Location
UK
skyway said:
VD do a female skeleton, seriously.

Shut the fuck up you graphics whore, as long as it's not jarring like the dudes in drag were - who gives a shit.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
Butthurt fanboy squad attacks.

But I want to know how exactly wanting to tell females apart from males makes me a graphics whore?
At least I don't go around saying that design of some locations showed on screenshots looks poor and empty - and making a better level design is harder than redoing several animations.
 

Hazelnut

Erudite
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
1,490
Location
UK
skyway said:
Butthurt fanboy squad attacks.

Oh please, do spare us from your infantile insecurities.

skyway said:
But I want to know how exactly wanting to tell females apart from males makes me a graphics whore?

That's not what you wanted, everyone wanted that and VD has obliged. What you wanted was perfection - real female skeletons so that it looks perfect down to every detail. You also referred to the small detail being important thing - of course most will agree, but only in the focus areas of the game rather than the graphics. Hence graphics whoredom.

Maybe my inattention over the last few months has left me behind the curve on AoD and it's main focus and objectives have changed / expanded or something?
 

Claw

Erudite
Patron
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
3,777
Location
The center of my world.
Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Yes, AoD is awaiting the switch to the source engine. New core features will be next-gen physics and HDR.
Also, Vince has already revealed the first of many fascinating spells you can learn: Telekinesis. You can pick up objects and launch them at enemies with deadly force, or even pick up your enemies and throw them around. Awesome? Of course.
 

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