Game News Age of Decadence September Update

[Vault Dweller]

The characters would have either nothing to say or what they have to say won't affect your current quest(s).

But that's precisely the point, isn't it? They would have nothing to say even if they logically should have something to say, because of things you've already done mid-quest!

In most cases, it's a non-issue.

 

[Emily]

x

I play games to make my own path, not have one handed to me through dialogue options.

So you're going to script in everything I could ever want to do?

No, we're not going to script every retarded fucking thing.

Just everything that occurs to you?

and what game did have every single thing avalable to do in? Dont be silly.

 

[suejak]

x

I play games to make my own path, not have one handed to me through dialogue options.

So you're going to script in everything I could ever want to do?

No, we're not going to script every retarded fucking thing.

Just everything that occurs to you?

and what game did have every single thing avalable to do in? Dont be silly.

Huh? Most games don't rely on dialogue options for every possible action. This is what is called emergent gameplay -- outcomes emerge that were not necessarily intended or foreseen by the designers. Deus Ex designer Warren Spector was a big champion of this sort of thing, and you can look it up.

Good Jesus, are there people who long for the days when every option was intentionally created by some designer?

 

[Vault Dweller]

x

I play games to make my own path, not have one handed to me through dialogue options.

So you're going to script in everything I could ever want to do?

No, we're not going to script every retarded fucking thing.

Just everything that occurs to you?

Ok. Let's pretend that it's a serious conversation. What did you say before? "I was teleported before I could talk to some people and kill somebody." Guess what? You can do it after you were teleported. We teleport you during quests to speed up gameplay because the game is designed to be replayble (i.e. you should be able to replay it fast). You're free to explore, look for "freestyle" quests, talk to people, etc. We haven't taken anything from you.

You make your own path in any RPG not just walking from A to B, but by making choices, usually (99% of games) by selecting certain dialogue options.

 

[Infinitron]

The characters would have either nothing to say or what they have to say won't affect your current quest(s).

But that's precisely the point, isn't it? They would have nothing to say even if they logically should have something to say, because of things you've already done mid-quest!

In most cases, it's a non-issue.

Uh huh, sure thing boss

 

[Emily]

x

I play games to make my own path, not have one handed to me through dialogue options.

So you're going to script in everything I could ever want to do?

No, we're not going to script every retarded fucking thing.

Just everything that occurs to you?

and what game did have every single thing avalable to do in? Dont be silly.

Huh? Most games don't rely on dialogue options for every possible action. This is what is called emergent gameplay -- outcomes emerge that were not necessarily intended or foreseen by the designers. Deus Ex designer Warren Spector was a big champion of this sort of thing, and you can look it up.

Good Jesus, are there people who long for the days when every option was intentionally created by some designer?

Everything HAS to be created by the designer in a game of this level od depth.
And the more option the creator gives the better it is. You cant expect open world such as oblivion, why? Cause oblivion was SHALLOW as fuck. They just dont compare. Here you have human beings, intrigue, faction system etc. In oblivion you have nothing, only choice is go out and kill stuff but you can do it any where you would like.
So ask i agan what game would you say has more depth and choice then AoD?

 

[suejak]

You make your own path in any RPG not just walking from A to B, but by making choices, usually (99% of games) by selecting certain dialogue options.

Wow.

So that's the problem here.

 

[suejak]

And the more option the creator gives the better it is. You cant expect open world such as oblivion, why? Cause oblivion was SHALLOW as fuck. They just dont compare. Here you have human beings, intrigue, faction system etc. In oblivion you have nothing, only choice is go out and kill stuff but you can do it any where you would like.
So ask i agan what game would you say has more depth and choice then AoD?

You ever played Deus Ex, homie?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Huh? Most games don't rely on dialogue options for every possible action. This is what is called emergent gameplay -- outcomes emerge that were not necessarily intended or foreseen by the designers. Deus Ex designer Warren Spector was a big champion of this sort of thing, and you can look it up.

Good Jesus, are there people who long for the days when every option was intentionally created by some designer?

Deus Ex was certainly a cool game and had some sandboxy level design, which gave you a certain freedom, but it's hardly a good example of "emergent gameplay", regardless of whether or not Spector was a big fan of it.

Edit:

You ever played Deus Ex, homie?

The game where regardless of your choices, you pick A, B, or C at the end? Yeah, fucking emergent gameplay there, man!

 

[Emily]

And the more option the creator gives the better it is. You cant expect open world such as oblivion, why? Cause oblivion was SHALLOW as fuck. They just dont compare. Here you have human beings, intrigue, faction system etc. In oblivion you have nothing, only choice is go out and kill stuff but you can do it any where you would like.
So ask i agan what game would you say has more depth and choice then AoD?

You ever played Deus Ex, homie?

played it, it is same thing as in here. just you have skill checks., rather then doing the shit yourself.
did you play AoD for a serous period of time i ask you? Like more then 2-3 hours?
Most quests can be finished with multiple solutions. You can also "explore" and try to find some other way of doing thing always
FFor instance npc tells you to go to A, but you could go to B and fuck npc over.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Uh huh, sure thing boss

Example?

I mean, clearly we can't add every possible reaction, regardless of whether or not you're teleported, so some reactions and possible conversations are skipped by default. We've actually gone back and added options to tell Linos that Cado's planning to hit his gold shipment, simply because it makes sense. It has nothing to do with teleporting.

 

[suejak]

Huh? Most games don't rely on dialogue options for every possible action. This is what is called emergent gameplay -- outcomes emerge that were not necessarily intended or foreseen by the designers. Deus Ex designer Warren Spector was a big champion of this sort of thing, and you can look it up.

Good Jesus, are there people who long for the days when every option was intentionally created by some designer?

Deus Ex was certainly a cool game and had some sandboxy level design, which gave you a certain freedom, but it's hardly a good example of "emergent gameplay", regardless of whether or not Spector was a big fan of it.

One example that sticks out in my mind is the use of LAMs (wall-mounted sticky-bombs) to climb to places in levels that weren't supposed to be used. Spector and Harvey Smith were asked about this. They said they loved it, because it was a great example of players using their rules to create their own gameplay and their own stories.

There are also lots of ways to utilize NPC AI in ways that create new solutions and interesting methods. Just like in New Vegas I managed to make it to New Vegas as a level 1 by luring a giant radscorpion into the super mutant camp, starting a fight that let me get through to New Vegas.

Even if you're obsessed with dialogue options, games like Fallout and Arcanum would let you stumble across NPCs off the beaten path who might provide alternative solutions to quests. This isn't possible if you aren't allowed the freedom to roam and accidentally find such NPCs.

 

[suejak]

And the more option the creator gives the better it is. You cant expect open world such as oblivion, why? Cause oblivion was SHALLOW as fuck. They just dont compare. Here you have human beings, intrigue, faction system etc. In oblivion you have nothing, only choice is go out and kill stuff but you can do it any where you would like.
So ask i agan what game would you say has more depth and choice then AoD?

You ever played Deus Ex, homie?

played it, it is same thing as in here. just you have skill checks., rather then doing the shit yourself.

What on earth are you talking about? Deus Ex is famous for its blend of skills and player ingenuity. If you want to get through a door, you can pick the lock, crack the keypad, find a code, or blow it up.

 

[Infinitron]

suejak If you look at the big threads we had about AoD when the beta was released, we've already gone over what you're saying and more. VD has been heavily criticized for his vision of what C&C is supposed to be.
For example: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ou-think-about-aod.73356/page-16#post-2151734

 

[Emily]

And the more option the creator gives the better it is. You cant expect open world such as oblivion, why? Cause oblivion was SHALLOW as fuck. They just dont compare. Here you have human beings, intrigue, faction system etc. In oblivion you have nothing, only choice is go out and kill stuff but you can do it any where you would like.
So ask i agan what game would you say has more depth and choice then AoD?

You ever played Deus Ex, homie?

played it, it is same thing as in here. just you have skill checks., rather then doing the shit yourself.

What on earth are you talking about? Deus Ex is famous for its blend of skills and player ingenuity. If you want to get through a door, you can pick the lock, crack the keypad, find a code, or blow it up.

But it is not that sort of the game.. Here when you get to a lock you get text adventure, and you can blow it up, open it, or other. But just via text (you pick an option), there is no physics or anything like that

 

[Vault Dweller]

One example that sticks out in my mind is the use of LAMs (wall-mounted sticky-bombs) to climb to places in levels that weren't supposed to be used. Spector and Harvey Smith were asked about this. They said they loved it, because it was a great example of players using their rules to create their own gameplay and their own stories.

And what story would that be?

- "So, guys, I was playing and I used a LAM and got on top of that building!"
- "No way! So, which option did you pick at the end?"

There are also lots of ways to utilize NPC AI in ways that create new solutions and interesting methods. Just like in New Vegas I managed to make it to New Vegas as a level 1 by luring a giant radscorpion into the super mutant camp, starting a fight that let me get through to New Vegas.

This emergent gameplay thing sure sounds awesome.

Even if you're obsessed with dialogue options, games like Fallout and Arcanum would let you stumble across NPCs off the beaten path who might provide alternative solutions to quests. This isn't possible if you aren't allowed the freedom to roam and accidentally find such NPCs.

I don't think you've played the demo enough to find out.

 

[suejak]

And what story would that be?

- "So, guys, I was playing and I used a LAM and got on top of that building!"
- "No way! So, which option did you pick at the end?"

Do you think it's your job to author my experience?

Are you under the impression that the three choices at the end of Deus Ex are considered to be part of the reason the game was so good? Because that would explain a lot.

This emergent gameplay thing sure sounds awesome.

So you don't like players being able to carve their own path through your game?

I don't think you've played the demo enough to find out.

So I played your demo for 2 hours and that wasn't enough to be convinced that your game is the shit?

 

[suejak]

suejak If you look at the big threads we had about AoD when the beta was released, we've already gone over what you're saying and more. VD has been heavily criticized for his vision of what C&C is supposed to be.
For example: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ou-think-about-aod.73356/page-16#post-2151734

Well, now he's getting it again. He just seems like a control freak with an auteur complex to me. He has his vision and he wants the player to experience that vision. He should probably just write some choose-your-own-adventure books or something.

 

[Marsal]

suejak Give it a rest, newfag! It's like Groundhog day with AoD every few months. Some retard joins the Codex and repeats the same old shit.

VD knows the "issues" with the game. You won't change his mind. STFU and let him finish the game. If you want answers to your questions read the thread Infinitron already gave you a link to.

 

[curry]

Should've tried to take 6 months unpaid leave so at least there'd be something to come back to if necessary.

Vince isn't the sharpest tool in the shed

We teleport you during quests to speed up gameplay because the game is designed to be replayble (i.e. you should be able to replay it fast).

I don't think the word replayable means what you think it means.

 

[suejak]

suejak Give it a rest, newfag! It's like Groundhog day with AoD every few months. Some retard joins the Codex and repeats the same old shit.

VD knows the "issues" with the game. You won't change his mind. STFU and let him finish the game. If you wan't answers to your questions read the thread Infinitron already gave you a link to.

I've been here since it was founded. Fuck off. He deserves all the shit he gets.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

The Toronto job market is very cutthroat from what my friends and acquaintances who are there tell me, though it seems that you can find a place if you are qualified and dedicated enough from what I have seen.

I remember having seen a guy who left his management job to help run an IT company, and within a few months the company went bankrupt. The way he spun it was that he was glad he went through that experience and it thought him a lot. If it doesn't work out you could do the same when you have to interview again. Good way to turn a negative into a positive.

 

[John Yossarian]

I bet VD never ironmanned the Imperial Guard questline (including Daratan mine retake fight) with a 4 int fighter, but I did. I'm fucking with your vision dude, make fights harder.

 

[Gakkone]

I'm basically in love with AoD based on the demos and what it promises as a full game, but this teleportation thing is just something where VD's position has me utterly stumped. Even if you can't really do anything significant between two parts of a quest doesn't mean that giving the player a change to try things out is futile.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Do you think it's your job to author my experience?

Not sure what you mean by that, but it's the developer's job to create different paths and choices for the player to follow and take.

What you're raving about is the physical interaction, which allows the player to interact with the world directly, which gives the player the max degree of control, which, in most cases, doesn't affect anything else. Sure, you could navigate levels differently in DE, but the flow of the game was the same and you'd end up at the same spot, considering the same 3 options, unaffected by anything you did in the game.

So you don't like players being able to carve their own path through your game?

There are plenty of paths in the demo.