Game News Age of Decadence September Update

[Gakkone]

Sure, you could navigate levels differently in DE, but the flow of the game was the same and you'd end up at the same spot, considering the same 3 options, unaffected by anything you did in the game.

The journey man. It's all about the journey.

 

[John Yossarian]

There are some quests where the people involved won't let you roam around. It makes sense. I guess they could always give you the option to disregard these people and let you get stomped (like with the police guards).
In the other places, it really is a non-issue. They don't teleport you midquest, it's more like "Go see X" and it takes you there.

Anyone of you fags bitching about it care to give some concrete examples where not getting teleported would make a difference?

 

[suejak]

Do you think it's your job to author my experience?

Not sure what you mean by that, but it's the developer's job to create different paths and choices for the player to follow and take.

Ok, I now understand the problem. You think you're an auteur, the creator of experiences, and not a game designer. It's enlightening that you're confused by my question.

What you're raving about is the physical interaction, which allows the player to interact with the world directly, which gives the player the max degree of control, which, in most cases, doesn't affect anything else. Sure, you could navigate levels differently in DE, but the flow of the game was the same and you'd end up at the same spot, considering the same 3 options, unaffected by anything you did in the game.

But your path and experience were completely unique. In your game, the player can only choose the intended paths that you lay out for him. Most of the time, this doesn't leave the player with a feeling of satisfaction or a cool story to tell.

 

[suejak]

Anyone of you fags bitching about it care to give some concrete examples where not getting teleported would make a difference?

What do you mean "make a difference"?

We're playing a game. It's about the experience. Other games allow for exploration and stumbling across/thinking up alternative solutions. This game gives you a list of solutions and you click on one.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well, now he's getting it again. He just seems like a control freak with an auteur complex to me. He has his vision and he wants the player to experience that vision.

What a retarded thing to say. It's like saying "he made the game TB because he wants everyone to experience TB combat."

We (it's a group effort) made a game a certain way for a number of reasons (that were explained before) and none of these reasons has anything to do with wanting people to "experience this vision".

 

[John Yossarian]

Anyone of you fags bitching about it care to give some concrete examples where not getting teleported would make a difference?

What do you mean "make a difference"?

We're playing a game. It's about the experience. Other games allow for exploration and stumbling across/thinking up alternative solutions. This game gives you a list of solutions and you click on one.

Name one isometric RPG that did that. And clicking shit around until you find the pixel the designers decided to make important is not thinking up solutions.

 

[Vault Dweller]

But your path and experience were completely unique.

:facepalm:

 

[Jaesun]

OH so THAT'S where Drog's new alt is.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't know. suejak has also showed up on Josh Sawyer's Formspring. He has an identity outside the Codex.

 

[Serious_Business]

The Toronto job market is very cutthroat from what my friends and acquaintances who are there tell me, though it seems that you can find a place if you are qualified and dedicated enough from what I have seen.

I remember having seen a guy who left his management job to help run an IT company, and within a few months the company went bankrupt. The way he spun it was that he was glad he went through that experience and it thought him a lot. If it doesn't work out you could do the same when you have to interview again. Good way to turn a negative into a positive.

Talk about video games asshole

I hate you so much

 

[Vault Dweller]

Should've tried to take 6 months unpaid leave so at least there'd be something to come back to if necessary.

Vince isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

I was a VP of Sales, not a clerk. How do you picture me taking an unpaid leave? Who'd run sales (the head office and other cities)? They'd have to get someone and anyone's good wouldn't be looking for a 6-month gig, not to mention that any company would question any senior manager's dedication and commitment, if he were to ask for a 6 months break.

We teleport you during quests to speed up gameplay because the game is designed to be replayble (i.e. you should be able to replay it fast).

I don't think the word replayable means what you think it means.

Don't be such a tard, curry. Surely, I don't have to explain everything to you.

 

[Roguey]

Yet another thread where one asks "Is the illusion of freedom important? Should developers disguise the rails as much as possible to hide the fact that all this content has been authored for you and you're not doing anything that hasn't been anticipated?" For most, the answer to these questions is "yes", not so much for VD or fans of AoD. "Illusion? Meh. Here are my many paths, take 'em or leave 'em."

 

[Havoc]

Yesterday was your birthday? Damn. So here's a late birthday present: *Preorders AoD*

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Should've tried to take 6 months unpaid leave so at least there'd be something to come back to if necessary.

It wasn't a sudden, emotional decision. I've been thinking about it for at least a year, toying with the idea and working up the courage. Eventually, it got to the point where I realized that I was more afraid of staying than of leaving. At that point I left.

Good luck with it. I just know of my own experience being in the same boat and throwing away good jobs to work on my own projects. Things that in hindsight, I learned weren't such great ideas. :D Still, you have to make the mistake before you can learn from it. Hopefully it works out in your case.

Yeah, gotta say one thing that struck me is how there's a skill for every type of weapon... but none for Armour. No Heavy Armour skill? No Light Armour skill? Or perhaps "Plate Armour" and "Chain Armour" skills.

I just don't see it as a skill. It takes some skill to dodge an attack or to block it. It doesn't take much skill to put on armor. Sure, there is some "getting used to", but not enough to turn it into a skill, imo.

Well, that's partially my point. You've got separate skills for Daggers & Swords, Axes & Hammers, Spears, Bows & Crossbows, plus Throwing. What's really different about any of them? A big-two handed sword is pretty much used the same way as a big two-handed hammer or axe and yet they're split across three different skills. Is learning to put the sharp pointy bit of a dagger into a soft, fleshy spot of a man really such a difference from doing the same thing with a short sword instead? Really the skills are just there to stop you from using the Awesome Dagger of Awesomeness because you've been focussed on axes instead. Or it's the skill that actually makes the Dagger Awesome, with extra critical hits and a faster attack speed, rather than just being a piece of crap compared to your hammer.

To really make it viable, it does mean adding in extra content though. And that may just be adding too much at this point.

 

[EG]

Yesterday was your birthday? Damn. So here's a late birthday present: *Preorders AoD*

Let me . . . find my damn credit card.

Yet another thread where one asks "Is the illusion of freedom important? Should developers disguise the rails as much as possible to hide the fact that all this content has been authored for you and you're not doing anything that hasn't been anticipated?" For most, the answer to these questions is "yes", not so much for VD or fans of AoD. "Illusion? Meh. Here are my many paths, take 'em or leave 'em."

It's like an infinite loop.

All we need is Vince and AoD as sentinel values and away we go.

 

[suejak]

Anyone of you fags bitching about it care to give some concrete examples where not getting teleported would make a difference?

What do you mean "make a difference"?

We're playing a game. It's about the experience. Other games allow for exploration and stumbling across/thinking up alternative solutions. This game gives you a list of solutions and you click on one.

Name one isometric RPG that did that. And clicking shit around until you find the pixel the designers decided to make important is not thinking up solutions.

Wow, this is really how you people play video games. It's just mind-blowing to me.

Even something like Icewind Dale. Ok, so they made a bunch of encounters. You made your party. Hence YOU decide, with almost completely freedom, how you will interact with their encounters. Your game is full of choices. Suppose you made an entire party of mages. Your experience is going to be decided by that choice. Suppose you make a standard 2-fight, thief, healer, 2-mage party: that's your choice and the result is your chosen experience. Do you understand?

From Jagged Alliance 2 to Fallout to Arcanum -- these games feature tons of freedom and genuine gameplay. It's depressing to think of games a simple list of intentional choices lain out by some hack designer. No, in most good RPGs you build at least one unique character and invent your experience yourself, by interacting with the world the designers made and applying yourself to their world and ruleset. That is what makes them games.

It's really odd to me that you guys are essentially excited to play a game of "click-down-the-path-Vault-Dweller-has-written-for-me-and-read-what-happens."

Fuck, in Fallout: NV you can even fail quests. And that's ok. Not because you clicked the button that means "fail". But because you made an interesting choice, perhaps killed a key party somewhere along the line. The game is designed in a way that you have freedom to write your own experience, rather than simply click through someone else's preconceived options.

 

[suejak]

OH so THAT'S where Drog's new alt is.

Here's my old Duck & Cover profile. I've been around. http://www.duckandcover.cx/forums/p...le&u=740&sid=ecd05e9d734471da9033310424a55c22

lol, just searched on Google and I also did awesome shit like this: http://planescape.outshine.com/crap.planescape-torment.org/threads/chris_prophecy1.html

Edit:

You ever played Deus Ex, homie?

The game where regardless of your choices, you pick A, B, or C at the end? Yeah, fucking emergent gameplay there, man!

It is really really informative that this is how he thinks of Deus Ex. I get it now. He thinks that every game is about choices explicitly offered by the designer, and so he thinks he's just streamlined that by removing any other wandering that may occur between one set of choices and another.

 

[EG]

It's really odd to me that you guys are essentially excited to play a game of "click-down-the-path-Vault-Dweller-has-written-for-me-and-read-what-happens."

I always did like adventure games, and other linear experiences.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Even something like Icewind Dale. Ok, so they made a bunch of encounters. You made your party. Hence YOU decide, with almost completely freedom, how you will interact with their encounters. Your game is full of choices. Suppose you made an entire party of mages. Your experience is going to be decided by that choice. Suppose you make a standard 2-fight, thief, healer, 2-mage party: that's your choice and the result is your chosen experience. Do you understand?

Yeah. You kill the bad guys with an all-fighter party, an all-mage party, or a mix. Does it change the game in any meaningful way? It doesn't. If the combat system is good, it merely makes the game worth replaying with another party.

From Jagged Alliance 2 to Fallout to Arcanum -- these games feature tons of freedom and genuine gameplay. It's depressing to think of games a simple list of intentional choices lain out by some hack designer. No, in most good RPGs you build at least one unique character and invent your experience yourself, by interacting with the world the designers made and applying yourself to their world and ruleset. That is what makes them games.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but both in Fallout and Arcanum you follow the path laid out by some hack designers. These are not "do whatever you want, make your own adventure" sandbox games." For example, you can send a water caravan to the vault for one simple reason - the hack designers added this option. It's available only in once place and has pre-defined consequences. Do you have an option to fix the water chip on your own, using your repair and science skill? No. Can you deliver the water on your own? No. Why not? Because the hacks didn't make it an option you can choose.

These are all very "intentional" choices.

Fuck, in Fallout: NV you can even fail quests. And that's ok.

No way! Well, guess what, in AoD you can fail quests too. Aint that something?

Not because you clicked the button that means "fail". But because you made an interesting choice, perhaps killed a key party somewhere along the line. The game is designed in a way that you have freedom to write your own experience, rather than simply click through someone else's preconceived options.

You must be trolling, right? There is no way that you don't see the actual design.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yesterday was your birthday? Damn. So here's a late birthday present: *Preorders AoD*

Thanks.

 

[EG]

Yesterday was your birthday? Damn. So here's a late birthday present: *Preorders AoD*

Thanks.

I, too, paid $25. Now, Slave, re-implement walking -- or, like some members on this site, I'll cancel the payment!

Mu wah ha ha ha ha!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Thanks. Right away, master.

 

[laclongquan]

suejak Give it a rest, newfag! It's like Groundhog day with AoD every few months. Some retard joins the Codex and repeats the same old shit.

VD knows the "issues" with the game. You won't change his mind. STFU and let him finish the game. If you wan't answers to your questions read the thread Infinitron already gave you a link to.

I've been here since it was founded. Fuck off. He deserves all the shit he gets.

So, whose alt are you then? Cause you made a 2002 account over dnc with 3 post in total, it's hard to imagine you dont have an account here earlier than 2012.
Some say you are Drog's but I am not so sure.

 

[laclongquan]

You are so generous massa. Yes massa. Right away, massa.

Fixed for consistency.

 

[suejak]

suejak Give it a rest, newfag! It's like Groundhog day with AoD every few months. Some retard joins the Codex and repeats the same old shit.

VD knows the "issues" with the game. You won't change his mind. STFU and let him finish the game. If you wan't answers to your questions read the thread Infinitron already gave you a link to.

I've been here since it was founded. Fuck off. He deserves all the shit he gets.

So, whose alt are you then? Cause you made a 2002 account over dnc with 3 post in total, it's hard to imagine you dont have an account here earlier than 2012.
Some say you are Drog's but I am not so sure.

No, I wasn't anybody prominent. I went by the name TheKaje when I was about 15, left the old Duck & Cover/NMA boards to post exclusively on the BIS message boards for a while, then came back here.