Age of Decadence Stinks

[lossantos]

There are very few games not overrated/underrated on the codex, it's a reactionary site.

We can simply call it the toilet of the internet. So i come here to shit every now and then.

 

[gurugeorge]

I had fun with it but have seen it overrated on here. That said it offered some things no other RPG has come close to replicating.

Ironically(since I generally don't like dungeon crawlers) I enjoyed dungeon rats more then AOD.

Yeah it's funny, I enjoyed Dungeon Rats more too. I actually quite like the combat system. At the same time, I do like the writing and C&C in AoD.

I just don't like the way that you're kind of forced into being either a talky character or a fighter. I mean, I gather that hybrids are possible, just tricky to build and get through the game? I dunno, I prefer like a Golden Ratio thing in games, where you can excel at one but still be pretty decent at the other, especially if you have a companion who specializes in the other. You have to specialize in a game to some extent, certainly, so that there are some paths taken and some paths foregone; but I feel AoD is too specialized (same with Colony Ship). It's a design choice that works if you're happy with it, but ultimately I think Irontower games take it to too much of an extreme, almost to the point of monomania.

 

[dacencora]

I had fun with it but have seen it overrated on here. That said it offered some things no other RPG has come close to replicating.

Ironically(since I generally don't like dungeon crawlers) I enjoyed dungeon rats more then AOD.

Yeah it's funny, I enjoyed Dungeon Rats more too. I actually quite like the combat system. At the same time, I do like the writing and C&C in AoD.

I just don't like the way that you're kind of forced into being either a talky character or a fighter. I mean, I gather that hybrids are possible, just tricky to build and get through the game? I dunno, I prefer like a Golden Ratio thing in games, where you can excel at one but still be pretty decent at the other, especially if you have a companion who specializes in the other. You have to specialize in a game to some extent, certainly, so that there are some paths taken and some paths foregone; but I feel AoD is too specialized (same with Colony Ship). It's a design choice that works if you're happy with it, but ultimately I think Irontower games take it to too much of an extreme, almost to the point of monomania.

Dungeon Rats is great. Very fun little combat simulator.

 

[Absinthe]

1- There is nothing to do in the game except clicking in the dialogue screen. How can a game be an RPG where you can't activate the combat, sneaking, pickpocketing, etc. whenever you want? All you do is click something on the dialog screen, then realize that the character you have created has insufficient skills and you have to start the dialog from the beginning by an endless save/load grind. You guys calling a text-based game decorated with graphics an RPG.

Yeah, major criticism. Vince's response was basically that when AoD began development you were either using weird indie engines (like Torque, what AoD runs on) or paying something like 6 figures for an engine license and in the early phases of development they basically had little other than the dialogue editor to work with. VD tried to improve environment interaction a bit later on, but there does need to be better environmental interaction than just the same mouse click to interact with everything. I think he's trying to do better on Colony Ship.

2- At the end of the story we see that all the old wives' tales told in the inns are true. This is how all the characters who are sane, don't believe in such nonsense and are materialistic are destroyed. Because they were all wrong. This kills replayability too.

Actually, your ending has to do with your faction reputation, which means charisma (which is pretty much a dump stat for much of the game, aside from collecting 7 cha trainings) is the major factor in the epilogue you get. I think just about everyone agrees Charisma was mishandled in AoD. Feel free to make a 10 cha build to see those endings though.

3- You have to rotate the camera to see most interactive objects. Why not an isometric game with a static camera? Seeing those ugly 3D bitmaps was not interesting at all.

Eh, good question. It's not like the graphics are better for it. I think VD did it because it was cheaper and easier to do 3D art and animations than manually draw everything for 2D isometric. But the complaint about needing to rotate to see shit is still valid. You can use tab to highlight objects though.

4- Vince is someone who throws "Pepe screech" at the slightest criticism. According to him, everyone who doesn't like his game is a casual Elder Scrolls fan. But if you throw undeserved praises to his game, then you are the most pro RPG player. Such a toxic mindset.

No, he tends to respond in detail. The annoying part is that VD is often more inclined to explain why things are the way they are than engage the question of how they could be better.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Without the ability (budget, tools, time constraints) to change things, it's pointless to talk how they could be better. As for the criticism, it can be split into 3 categories:

- constructive criticism that highlights the flaws in the core design. Such flaws were always acknowledged and analyzed extensively, internally and externally. We do want to improve our design and make better games, so such criticism is vital and appreciated.
- criticism that falls outside of the core design; since we aren't planning to change the core design, such criticism doesn't have much value to us
- complaints about the difficulty; we help those who welcome our help and ignore the rest

 

[lossantos]

Without the ability (budget, tools, time constraints) to change things, it's pointless to talk how they could be better. As for the criticism, it can be split into 3 categories:

- constructive criticism that highlights the flaws in the core design. Such flaws were always acknowledged and analyzed extensively, internally and externally. We do want to improve our design and make better games, so such criticism is vital and appreciated.
- criticism that falls outside of the core design; since we aren't planning to change the core design, such criticism doesn't have much value to us
- complaints about the difficulty; we help those who welcome our help and ignore the rest

>we

This site's cringe is beyond oblivion level.

 

[Salvo]

Without the ability (budget, tools, time constraints) to change things, it's pointless to talk how they could be better. As for the criticism, it can be split into 3 categories:

- constructive criticism that highlights the flaws in the core design. Such flaws were always acknowledged and analyzed extensively, internally and externally. We do want to improve our design and make better games, so such criticism is vital and appreciated.
- criticism that falls outside of the core design; since we aren't planning to change the core design, such criticism doesn't have much value to us
- complaints about the difficulty; we help those who welcome our help and ignore the rest

>we

This site's cringe is beyond oblivion level.

He's talking about ITS you mouthbreathing fucktard

 

[rusty_shackleford]

rotating 3D camera is just annoying, fix the camera's position and design around it

the fact that this is still an issue with bird's eye view cRPGs when every other genre already has had the camera figured out for two decades is amazing

 

[Shaki]

How can a game be an RPG where you can't activate the combat, sneaking, pickpocketing, etc. whenever you want?

Bethestard detected.

You're obviously looking for a sandbox, not an RPG. Go back to playing Skyrim and Fallout 3, do some EPIC ROLEPLAYING of murdering 1000 random copypasted NPCs and stealing everything in sight.

 

[dacencora]

How can a game be an RPG where you can't activate the combat, sneaking, pickpocketing, etc. whenever you want?

Bethestard detected.

You're obviously looking for a sandbox, not an RPG. Go back to playing Skyrim and Fallout 3, do some EPIC ROLEPLAYING of murdering 1000 random copypasted NPCs and stealing everything in sight.

Or just play Kenshi.

 

[lossantos]

How can a game be an RPG where you can't activate the combat, sneaking, pickpocketing, etc. whenever you want?

Bethestard detected.

You're obviously looking for a sandbox, not an RPG. Go back to playing Skyrim and Fallout 3, do some EPIC ROLEPLAYING of murdering 1000 random copypasted NPCs and stealing everything in sight.

Planescape Torment, Fallout 1-2, Baldur's Gate , Arcanum, VTMB, Gothic, Underrail, Might & Magic, Dragon's Dogma, Ultima etc.

These are the games where the rpg elements I mentioned can be activated whenever you want. It's not just bethesda. By the way, you're probably a kiddo, so my advice to you is not to take the people here as an example

 

[Absinthe]

Without the ability (budget, tools, time constraints) to change things, it's pointless to talk how they could be better.

it's pointless to talk how they could be better.

You're... on the RPG Codex.

As for the criticism, it can be split into 3 categories:

- constructive criticism that highlights the flaws in the core design. Such flaws were always acknowledged and analyzed extensively, internally and externally. We do want to improve our design and make better games, so such criticism is vital and appreciated.

Could you give some examples of what you consider to be this kind of criticism?

- criticism that falls outside of the core design; since we aren't planning to change the core design, such criticism doesn't have much value to us

Even criticism like that can be useful for improving your notions of game design since you seem interested in making multiple games.

- complaints about the difficulty; we help those who welcome our help and ignore the rest

Hang on a sec, VD. There are some perfectly valid criticisms there about how you should probably have a combat tutorial that isn't shit and a character sheet that makes it more obvious how many ranks of combat skills you need for your starting build to be useful at something.

>we

This site's cringe is beyond oblivion level.

Stop being a fucking tool. First off, Vince is speaking on behalf of Iron Tower Studio, which is more than one person, dumbass. Second off, what is it with 4channers these days having absolutely no fucking concept of the fact that the rest of the internet isn't 4chan and is not interested in trying to be 4chan either?

How can a game be an RPG where you can't activate the combat, sneaking, pickpocketing, etc. whenever you want?

Bethestard detected.

You're obviously looking for a sandbox, not an RPG. Go back to playing Skyrim and Fallout 3, do some EPIC ROLEPLAYING of murdering 1000 random copypasted NPCs and stealing everything in sight.

Stop posting edgy responses in the hopes of getting your circlejerk on. You're not fitting in. You're not making a valid counterpoint. And you're definitely not engaging in constructive discourse. Go post a normal reply instead of this dumb shit, for fuck's sake.

 

[Stavrophore]

What's there to roleplay in AoD? It's a CYOA game not RPG.

 

[Pink Eye]

a character sheet that makes it more obvious how many ranks of combat skills you need for your starting build to be useful at something.

You have this in Colony Ship. If you hover your cursor over a given stat. A tool hint will pop up telling you if the stat is in a good spot or not. See:

My dexterity is super bad. This is detrimental if you're planning on a combat build, as you need to be proficient in dodging things and have good action points. If you have it at 7 or 8. The game will tell you that it's in a good spot. See:

It's a simple thing, but it does a good job of explaining things.

 

[jackofshadows]

Hasn't AoD had these descriptions? At the very least it has had for skills, some were hilarious, loved that.

 

[dacencora]

a character sheet that makes it more obvious how many ranks of combat skills you need for your starting build to be useful at something.

You have this in Colony Ship. If you hover your cursor over a given stat. A tool hint will pop up telling you if the stat is in a good spot or not. See:

My dexterity is super bad. This is detrimental if you're planning on a combat build, as you need to be proficient in dodging things and have good action points. If you have it at 7 or 8. The game will tell you that it's in a good spot. See:

It's a simple thing, but it does a good job of explaining things.

I fear I misjudged Colony Ship. I think I will probably still hold off until EA is over.

 

[Pink Eye]

Hasn't AoD had these descriptions?

Yeppers.

 

[JDR13]

Believe it or not, I signed up just to show everyone here how much of a retarded faggot I am.

But why?

 

[Shaki]

Stop posting edgy responses in the hopes of getting your circlejerk on. You're not fitting in. You're not making a valid counterpoint. And you're definitely not engaging in constructive discourse. Go post a normal reply instead of this dumb shit, for fuck's sake.

I've GMed enough sessions over the years, and dealt with enough morons who think that MUH RPG FREEDOM means doing random retarded shit and killing everybody, to not have any patience left for this kind of idiocy. Constructive discourse is reserved for people capable of understanding it.

Also, edgy respones and trying to start a circlejerk, are mutually exclusive things. You can't be edgy, eg. post something shocking and absolutely contrary to popular opinion, and at the same time be circlejerking, eg. post something that caters as much as possible to popular opinon in hopes of people joining in and validating you. Btw my post is neither, but if you want an example of trying to start a circlejerk, then your response to me is a perfect one. "Oh look, a poster with low post count, better insult him and accuse him of hmmmm.... Being edgy! Also hmmm..... Circlejerking!...Hmmm what else...*shuffles deck*...Trying to fit in! Yes, perfect, my fellow intelectual Codexians with 9999 posts will LOVE it "

 

[Absinthe]

a character sheet that makes it more obvious how many ranks of combat skills you need for your starting build to be useful at something.

You have this in Colony Ship. If you hover your cursor over a given stat. A tool hint will pop up telling you if the stat is in a good spot or not. See:

My dexterity is super bad. This is detrimental if you're planning on a combat build, as you need to be proficient in dodging things and have good action points. If you have it at 7 or 8. The game will tell you that it's in a good spot. See:

It's a simple thing, but it does a good job of explaining things.

I was talking about skills rather than stats, but that is good shit and a step in the right direction.

Hasn't AoD had these descriptions? At the very least it has had for skills, some were hilarious, loved that.

It did, but it wasn't very indicative of how much you actually needed to make a functional combat build. It's more like a collection of amusing roasts than a real indicator of whether you're doing good with your skill ranks there.

I've GMed enough sessions over the years, and dealt with enough morons who think that MUH RPG FREEDOM means doing random retarded shit and killing everybody, to not have any patience left for this kind of idiocy. Constructive discourse is reserved for people capable of understanding it.

My condolences for GMing Skyrimtards, but we ain't talking P&P here and your post is still fucking dumb for claiming that mechanics like freeform pickpocketing and stealth can only mean Bethesda trash. Go play some Deus Ex (the original). It's a good game and it gives you a lot of options and reacts accordingly based on what you do.

Also, edgy respones and trying to start a circlejerk, are mutually exclusive things. You can't be edgy, eg. post something shocking and absolutely contrary to popular opinion, and at the same time be circlejerking, eg. post something that caters as much as possible to popular opinon in hopes of people joining in and validating you. Btw my post is neither, but if you want an example of trying to start a circlejerk, then your response to me is a perfect one. "Oh look, a poster with low post count, better insult him and accuse him of hmmmm.... Being edgy! Also hmmm..... Circlejerking!...Hmmm what else...*shuffles deck*...Trying to fit in! Yes, perfect, my fellow intelectual Codexians with 9999 posts will LOVE it "

Cute, but wrong. World's full of counterculture idiots insisting they're going against the grain while basically copying each other. Case in point: 4chan.

Also, you sure looked like you were fishing for people to back you up or brofist you because you called someone a Bethestard for complaining about AoD.

 

[Pink Eye]

I was talking about skills

Yep. It has that too:

However. Unlike Age of Decadence. Colony Ship uses a learn as you do type system - think Kenshi. The more you use a skill the better you'll get at it. You can improve a skill by only one point in character creation. After that. It only gains experience when you use it. Oh yeah. There's also a tagging system - kind of like Fallout: New Vegas - where you can tag skills to increase the amount of experience you can gain from using them.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Yeah, major criticism. Vince's response was basically that when AoD began development you were either using weird indie engines (like Torque, what AoD runs on) or paying something like 6 figures for an engine license and in the early phases of development they basically had little other than the dialogue editor to work with. VD tried to improve environment interaction a bit later on, but there does need to be better environmental interaction than just the same mouse click to interact with everything. I think he's trying to do better on Colony Ship.

AFAIK, Kenshi was in development since 2006 and the guy behind it had a choice between Torque and OGRE. He had chosen the latter. Did AoD choice of engine happened before OGRE was introduced?

Although, I still think that AoD is a gorgeous game

 

[Marat]

Hasn't AoD had these descriptions?

Yeppers.

Spoiler

Well, no, since the question was about descriptions for attributes and it didn't have those. But the descriptions of skills were indeed hilarious.

 

[lossantos]

Stop posting edgy responses in the hopes of getting your circlejerk on. You're not fitting in. You're not making a valid counterpoint. And you're definitely not engaging in constructive discourse. Go post a normal reply instead of this dumb shit, for fuck's sake.

I've GMed enough sessions over the years, and dealt with enough morons who think that MUH RPG FREEDOM means doing random retarded shit and killing everybody, to not have any patience left for this kind of idiocy. Constructive discourse is reserved for people capable of understanding it.

Also, edgy respones and trying to start a circlejerk, are mutually exclusive things. You can't be edgy, eg. post something shocking and absolutely contrary to popular opinion, and at the same time be circlejerking, eg. post something that caters as much as possible to popular opinon in hopes of people joining in and validating you. Btw my post is neither, but if you want an example of trying to start a circlejerk, then your response to me is a perfect one. "Oh look, a poster with low post count, better insult him and accuse him of hmmmm.... Being edgy! Also hmmm..... Circlejerking!...Hmmm what else...*shuffles deck*...Trying to fit in! Yes, perfect, my fellow intelectual Codexians with 9999 posts will LOVE it "

That moment when being so retarded as to be ostracized even by the people you're trying to circlejerk about.

Sad...

 

[Mexi]

It is a shitty game, btw. Very much on rails while these faggots harp that they "want muh freedumb."