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RTS Age of Empires IV - Medieval Again

Sarathiour

Cipher
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
3,276
Aom had a relatively complex meta of unit and counter unit, probably the most developed of the series actually.

This is clearly not the case here.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,767
So, this game is supposed to be like AoE2 (that got a recent DE that is super popular), but looks and feels like AoE3 (that got even more recent DE that is somewhat popular) and it's going to be offered at strictly AAA pricing without anything to show for it. Either they are playing some high iq 4D chess that I'm really unable to comprehend or this is going to bomb like Beirut in 2020.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Its a Age2/3 mashup made by devs who arent veterans of the RTS craft. Thats really it: the feature mix is not bad but not great. I suspect its worth sale price for anyone who enjoyed, say, age3 and isnt looking for this one to top the king either.

You would think theyd at least bring shiny graphics to tempt casuals in that case...
 

Cunt Dickula!?

Guest
You would think theyd at least bring shiny graphics to tempt casuals in that case...
Yeah, the graphics are another disappointment. This game looks worse than AoE 3 when it came out. (16 years ago!)
And while gameplay and overall design philosophy of AoE 3 sucked you could have had fun with cannons and weird physics.
Having a few great bombards and blowing the enemies infantry away like plastic soldiers was at least good popamole fun.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,716
Pathfinder: Wrath
Yeah, I'm not exactly sure who this is for either. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some AoE2 and 3 (and 1) fans will like something else, not just the same slop served reheated, but AoE4 somehow doesn't bring anything new to the table. It might blow our minds with the campaign, though, who knows.
 

Mazisky

Magister
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,082
Location
Rome, IT
I do not know how you guys can say the graphics look worse than AOE3. It does not.

It is average but still looks modern and better than AoE3.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Complete with "modern" UI, for sure. I don't think it really matters whether it's 'better' or 'worse' than Age3, it's pretty sad if that's where the bar is.

That said, the folklore goes as we know that the vast majority of Age2 players were non-competitive campaign players with very different ideas about what kind of gameplay loop they wanted. So who knows, maybe it's all good there.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,716
Pathfinder: Wrath
That said, the folklore goes as we know that the vast majority of Age2 players were non-competitive campaign players with very different ideas about what kind of gameplay loop they wanted.
Really? I was under the impression most people just play skirmishes against the AI. The DE campaign achievements confirm that - William Wallace has a 15.5% completion rate and is the only campaign above 10%. Joan of Arc sits at 5.5% completion and is the only campaign above 5%. The % is even lower in the HD edition. Soooo, I'd wager the folklore is wrong on this one. If the idea is that most players don't PvP, that's true as far as I know. I certainly don't, but I haven't really gotten down to playing AoE2 seriously for a while. Who knows, I might delude myself into thinking I'm good at the game and go PvPing at some point.
 

Tacgnol

Shitlord
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That said, the folklore goes as we know that the vast majority of Age2 players were non-competitive campaign players with very different ideas about what kind of gameplay loop they wanted.
Really? I was under the impression most people just play skirmishes against the AI. The DE campaign achievements confirm that - William Wallace has a 15.5% completion rate and is the only campaign above 10%. Joan of Arc sits at 5.5% completion and is the only campaign above 5%. The % is even lower in the HD edition. Soooo, I'd wager the folklore is wrong on this one. If the idea is that most players don't PvP, that's true as far as I know. I certainly don't, but I haven't really gotten down to playing AoE2 seriously for a while. Who knows, I might delude myself into thinking I'm good at the game and go PvPing at some point.

Achievement completion isn't massively useful as a metric as lots of people buy games and then never play them.

Maybe Steam only tracks achievement completion if you've played the game, but I always thought it was based on owners rather than players.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,716
Pathfinder: Wrath
Even if we assume that's true and say only 50% of owners have actually played the game, 10% for Joan of Arc as the most played campaign is still not "the vast majority of Age2 players are non-competitive campaign players". That might be true if nobody ever finishes a campaign, though, but good luck proving that. I am a big campaign player btw, but I haven't finished any campaigns yet because I get distracted by other games. Soooo, maybe? A friend of mine has sporadically played AoE2 for decades and he has never finished a single campaign, he has only played skirmishes against the AI. Skills in skirmishes don't translate to campaign success btw, he was terrible when I forced him to play Joan of Arc for my amusement.
 

thesheeep

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Even if we assume that's true and say only 50% of owners have actually played the game, 10% for Joan of Arc as the most played campaign is still not "the vast majority of Age2 players are non-competitive campaign players". That might be true if nobody ever finishes a campaign, though, but good luck proving that. I am a big campaign player btw, but I haven't finished any campaigns yet because I get distracted by other games. Soooo, maybe? A friend of mine has sporadically played AoE2 for decades and he has never finished a single campaign, he has only played skirmishes against the AI. Skills in skirmishes don't translate to campaign success btw, he was terrible when I forced him to play Joan of Arc for my amusement.
There's also the problem of current vs former players.

I played all of the AoE2 campaigns, and the AoE3 ones as well. And will no doubt do the same with AoE4.

But I won't appear in any statistic about AoE2 because I'm not playing it anymore.
I'd wager most people still playing that game are long done with the campaign content (if they cared about it at all) and basically only online players remain.

People like myself who prefer SP are simply not part of the community for very long - unless a game offers lots of replayability, but that's not exactly something AoE is known for since it doesn't have a proper sandbox/conquest campaign.
Skirmish alone just doesn't do it for most people.
At the same time, we have the same monetary value for the developer (or more, even, since we don't really cost maintenance of online services) - of course, MTX changes that to an extent.

Analyzing achievements alone doesn't really do much as we don't get information about who plays only SP, who plays only MP and who does both (and to what extent).
I'm sure the developer has such a statistic, but I doubt we'll ever see it...
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,767
Define "very long". You need couple hundred hours to finish all currently available campaigns. Maxing it means a much longer game then turbo-long and re-playable crpgs and so on.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
That said, the folklore goes as we know that the vast majority of Age2 players were non-competitive campaign players with very different ideas about what kind of gameplay loop they wanted.
Really? I was under the impression most people just play skirmishes against the AI. The DE campaign achievements confirm that - William Wallace has a 15.5% completion rate and is the only campaign above 10%. Joan of Arc sits at 5.5% completion and is the only campaign above 5%. The % is even lower in the HD edition. Soooo, I'd wager the folklore is wrong on this one. If the idea is that most players don't PvP, that's true as far as I know. I certainly don't, but I haven't really gotten down to playing AoE2 seriously for a while. Who knows, I might delude myself into thinking I'm good at the game and go PvPing at some point.

Achievement stats are a never-ending lesson in bad statistics. We don't know what the 'normal' for completion rate is, but it sure isn't anything like 100%, 50% or even 30%. Huge portions of bought games are often abandoned after a couple of hours. Also, I mean Age2 when it was released, not the DE, and we don't know if the situation's different for the rerelease. Finally, 'vast majority were campaign playing casuals' has very little to do with whether those players actually finish the campaigns.

I said 'folklore' because it was a popular discussion (I think with some ES folks' confirmation) at the time and not excel tables, but the idea is that the kind of stuff rated MP players wanted was quite different from people who wanted to play the cool historical campaigns (which could also overlap with 1 hour no rush skirmishes vs AI, I guess), and that informed ES' investment in AOM campaigns which run like some kind of hilarious classical age B-movie.
 

Sarathiour

Cipher
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
3,276
When I played AoM with my pals, with used to throw shit and backstab each other over dumb pretense, because that's the spirit of lan.

Such example would be thing :

"Hey ! Don't think I did not see you ! Give me back my herd of pig immediately, you filthy sodomite !"
"Ho really ? I thought it was supposed to be haram for your goatfucker, so I'm keeping them"

Glad to see that such thing can't happened again as the dev focused on the issue that truly matter, like disabling boar consumption for muslim.
 

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