Age of Wonders 4

[Lacrymas]

Btw Zboj Lamignat, I made a thread about the awful RMG on their Discord and posted your screenshots. I was immediately assaulted by apologists and everyone saying how it's absolutely fine and it's just a tiny bit of the map, and it's the north of the map so it naturally transitions into an arctic biome. We won't be getting better maps, let me tell you.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Yeah, I can imagine it's the same deal as the steam forums. These games don't have many fans, but the couple that are there are very territorial. At least I've seen people raising some concerns regarding map size, so there's that.

 

[Blutwurstritter]

Does someone know how AoWlanetfall fared sales wise vs AoW III? I'm not too fond of the whole sector and sector development stuff added with Planetfall. More menus to click through and economy mechanics are not what I want to see, but it appears that they added a lot of that, instead of improving the combat and combat related mechanics from AoW, like dungeons, combat, items, roaming enemies, spellcasting, etc.

 

[Lacrymas]

Does someone know how AoWlanetfall fared sales wise vs AoW III? I'm not too fond of the whole sector and sector development stuff added with Planetfall. More menus to click through and economy mechanics are not what I want to see, but it appears that they added a lot of that, instead of improving the combat and combat related mechanics from AoW, like dungeons, combat, items, roaming enemies, spellcasting, etc.

PF sold about as much as AoW3, I have this info from the wife of the AI programmer at Triumph.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Sales wise I don't know but when it comes to active player base it was never able to beat 3. And 3 was already like upper tier Slitherine standard or thereabouts, so not exactly amazing. I assume this is the main reason for stellaris "inspiration". Dumbfuck execs thinking this will bring in people, cause that's how it works.

 

[Skorpion]

Does someone know how AoWlanetfall fared sales wise vs AoW III? I'm not too fond of the whole sector and sector development stuff added with Planetfall. More menus to click through and economy mechanics are not what I want to see, but it appears that they added a lot of that, instead of improving the combat and combat related mechanics from AoW, like dungeons, combat, items, roaming enemies, spellcasting, etc.

PF sold about as much as AoW3, I have this info from the wife of the AI programmer at Triumph.

From just steam reviews it seems aow3 has about a third more total reviews. 6k vs 4k.
Im sure someone more familiar with steam could dig further into the metrics though.

 

[anvi]

I was a fan of AOW 1 and 2, but then I found Dominions, which was so superior as a fantasy wargame that AOW4 would really have to step it up to make me take interest.

I loved AOW but I hoped it would evolve into a bigger game. Instead the sequels just repeated it over and over with questionable tweaks. Dominions is cool.

 

[Blutwurstritter]

Does someone know how AoWlanetfall fared sales wise vs AoW III? I'm not too fond of the whole sector and sector development stuff added with Planetfall. More menus to click through and economy mechanics are not what I want to see, but it appears that they added a lot of that, instead of improving the combat and combat related mechanics from AoW, like dungeons, combat, items, roaming enemies, spellcasting, etc.

PF sold about as much as AoW3, I have this info from the wife of the AI programmer at Triumph.

On one hand I'm glad that it didn't tank and end the AoW series, on the other hand I'm displeased that their is no clear incentive for the developers to reduce these elements. Perhaps you can use your seductive prowess again, but this time on the wife of the development lead to whisper some good ideas into the ears of Triumph?

 

[HeroMarine]

Mods will fix it

Great posts/username combo

 

[Skorpion]

Does someone know how AoWlanetfall fared sales wise vs AoW III? I'm not too fond of the whole sector and sector development stuff added with Planetfall. More menus to click through and economy mechanics are not what I want to see, but it appears that they added a lot of that, instead of improving the combat and combat related mechanics from AoW, like dungeons, combat, items, roaming enemies, spellcasting, etc.

PF sold about as much as AoW3, I have this info from the wife of the AI programmer at Triumph.

On one hand I'm glad that it didn't tank and end the AoW series, on the other hand I'm displeased that their is no clear incentive for the developers to reduce these elements. Perhaps you can use your seductive prowess again, but this time on the wife of the development lead to whisper some good ideas into the ears of Triumph?

wait wut
how exactly do you think this world works??

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Does someone know how AoWlanetfall fared sales wise vs AoW III? I'm not too fond of the whole sector and sector development stuff added with Planetfall. More menus to click through and economy mechanics are not what I want to see, but it appears that they added a lot of that, instead of improving the combat and combat related mechanics from AoW, like dungeons, combat, items, roaming enemies, spellcasting, etc.

PF sold about as much as AoW3, I have this info from the wife of the AI programmer at Triumph.

On one hand I'm glad that it didn't tank and end the AoW series, on the other hand I'm displeased that their is no clear incentive for the developers to reduce these elements. Perhaps you can use your seductive prowess again, but this time on the wife of the development lead to whisper some good ideas into the ears of Triumph?

No need to be coy, Lacrymas will probably skip the middlewoman and work on the AI programmer directly.

 

[Reality]

I think planetfall actually sold the same during each games active cycle but 3 had far more mass discounts and even (dlc-less) giveaways over the years.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

PF had no active cycle. It managed over 1k average players for two months and then instantly plummeted below 500. I can imagine it selling same as 3, but popularity wise it tanked af.

 

[Raghar]

Planetfall was meh. Frankly, they did MASSIVE mistake in tactic combat, when they did a game with long range weapons, and they treated it the same as they treated AoW3 tactical combat. Compare differences between WH and WH40K. Is it the same tactical combat? No. Only exceptions have melee only weapons. Most of units have ranged weapons, they are spread to reduce artillery fire damage, and they are using cover.

Factions were simple and uninspired, it was mix of random factions they saw in movies, that didn't work well together.

Maps were flat textures with lack of detail and felt badly made.

Basically It would be hard to make worse game than Planetfall.

 

[Absinthe]

Btw Zboj Lamignat, I made a thread about the awful RMG on their Discord and posted your screenshots. I was immediately assaulted by apologists and everyone saying how it's absolutely fine and it's just a tiny bit of the map, and it's the north of the map so it naturally transitions into an arctic biome. We won't be getting better maps, let me tell you.

This is why apologists are an abomination. They try to keep devs from hearing what they need to hear: negative feedback that points out where they're dropping the ball.

PF had no active cycle. It managed over 1k average players for two months and then instantly plummeted below 500. I can imagine it selling same as 3, but popularity wise it tanked af.

That's honestly pretty bad. I know there's a tendency to only care about how much you sold but metrics like these indicate your next release is going to be selling worse.

 

[Suicidal]

Btw Zboj Lamignat, I made a thread about the awful RMG on their Discord and posted your screenshots. I was immediately assaulted by apologists and everyone saying how it's absolutely fine and it's just a tiny bit of the map, and it's the north of the map so it naturally transitions into an arctic biome. We won't be getting better maps, let me tell you.

I fucking hate brainless sycophants like that. AoW is one of my favorite game series and I like Planetfall despite its shortcomings but I can at least admit that the games have flaws and that the direction Triumph has been taking with the series recently will result in the games becoming worse and that they can be much better if the they made (or rather, unmade) certain changes. Why do some people think that if they like something they're not allowed to criticize it? Are they afraid that by admitting that whatever they like is flawed people will think that they like bad things and point and laugh at them or something?

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Planetfall was meh. Frankly, they did MASSIVE mistake in tactic combat, when they did a game with long range weapons, and they treated it the same as they treated AoW3 tactical combat. Compare differences between WH and WH40K. Is it the same tactical combat? No. Only exceptions have melee only weapons. Most of units have ranged weapons, they are spread to reduce artillery fire damage, and they are using cover.

Factions were simple and uninspired, it was mix of random factions they saw in movies, that didn't work well together.

Maps were flat textures with lack of detail and felt badly made.

Basically It would be hard to make worse game than Planetfall.

The trajectory of the series since AOW3 release is really weird and difficult to understand. On one hand, it seems like a case for stars aligning just perfectly for a group of people to make a good game in 3, but then completely failing to grasp what actually made it good when developing sequels. On the other hand, the dlc and patches for 3 sure looked like they got the strong points perfectly and knew exactly how to improve and develop on them.

This makes me think that paradox meddling is a factor. And sure, it would explain some things, like the utterly limp-dick post-launch support that PF got - very likely a case of snowjews cutting the funding once it became apparent no one actually plays the game. I heard some whispers that the game was supposed to still have two strategic planes, only underground was supposed to be replaced by orbital, which sounds very cool. So maybe a good game was there somewhere. I'm probably just coping.

Races did sound ok and look so on paper. It's just once you play it takes a moment to realize they are all the same shades of boring gameplay wise and PF did absolutely nothing to follow up on the great design of necro from the last 3 expansion.

 

[Absinthe]

Suicidal, the problem is that they don't respond rationally to criticism. They respond emotionally. There is some level of subconscious fear that engaging sincerely with criticism is an attack on their personal ability to enjoy whatever, and they take the criticism as an attack on something they like and a discouragement to the devs, so they throw up emotional walls. Part of the problem is also that a lot of these people are believers in being "nice" and interpret being nice as the firm avoidance of anything that could be taken in a negative light (and trying to shield others from the same) and let it override the need for people to be able to have honest, frank discussions on things. And then there's the way that social media has conditioned a number of people into groupthink and the tendency to examine dialogue through the lens of social approval and consider this need for approval to be a proper frame of discourse. Honestly though, the whole "stop criticizing things I like!" attitude is pretty common among children, and they usually get petulant and nasty (like children) when they don't get what they want.

 

[dsndo]

There is some level of subconscious fear that engaging sincerely with criticism is an attack on their personal ability to enjoy whatever, and they take the criticism as an attack on something they like and a discouragement to the devs, so they throw up emotional walls.

They openly admit this is the case. Any official game subreddit or discord that has an active discussion revolving around the poor state of a game or any other discontent will have vocal whiners beseeching the mods to shut down threads and issue bans to people who are posting negative observations. I distinctly remember when the Total War Rome: 2 forums were in open revolt after the launch you would see these NPCs pop up regularly and accuse critical posters that by pointing out design flaws and offering constructive criticism they were personally preventing them from enjoying the game. These people (often literal children) are so cognitively underdeveloped that they cannot enjoy a game unless it has a vocal public consensus proclaiming how great it is. It's the same mentality as those people that vote for political parties based on who they think will win, not whose platform closest aligns to their own views. Because they don't actually have any views or opinions of their own, they just want to be on the winning team, the correct team. Pollsters know this which is why for decades now public opinion polling has been used to influence public opinion, not measure it, and why any AAA game release needs to have a 80%+ metacritic rating. They literally don't know if they'll enjoy the game or not even if they watch hours of pre-launch streams. They need that 95/100 score to feel good about spending time playing it.

There's also the fact that many game developers today are mentally unstable and emotionally immature. Take a look at the specimen they have demoing the game in these streams. Does he strike you as a man you could call into your office and berate for under performing at his job? Of course not, he would burst into tears and quit in a huff and likely file frivolous lawsuits accusing you of emotional abuse. The average game development team doesn't have an ounce of testosterone between the lot of them. Project leads are nannies that coddle their charges, not visionaries that lead their team to produce quality and innovation.

 

[anvi]

The whiny forum bitches are now the generation making games. Constructive criticism used to work, but now it's "being toxic" to a broken generation of retards raised online. Zoomers are the worst creatures ever, and all previous generations are responsible for creating them.

 

[Absinthe]

There's a lot of toxic bullshit apologists will try to pull. Even if they can't get the mods to delete a thread that contains criticism, they'll usually try to derail the thread with drama in the hopes of getting the thread locked. It's just massive amounts of passive-aggressive and not-so-passive aggressive bullshit, and they'll usually whine about others being offensive/disrespectful/toxic too. Very much a "rules for thee but not for me" camp.

That reminds me, part of the reason why these people get pissed is because they're basically running their own circlejerk and they don't like it when others rain in on their parade by being there to have actual discussions containing unapproved opinions.

 

[Serious_Business]

Lost cause if you don't see that whining about whiners is contradictory from a performative standpoint. If you want constructive criticism, start formulating it with a minimum of coherence without foaming at the mouth. Who cares if others can listen to it or not?

The real problem with this game is going to be the same as any other strategy game : bad AI. With AoW you do have decent tactical AI most of the time, so it saves it to a degree in my eye, but other than that I always think the genre is turning around in circles. As I said before, you can't have AI work with the same rules as the player. Otherwise I tend to think that if AoW4 is AoW3 with some quality of life that PF brought, it'll be a fine game, but nothing that will bring you over if you didn't enjoy the earlier titles.

 

[Blutwurstritter]

Does someone know what happened to sieges and how taking towns is working now? Can you still waltz in with your army or sneak in with a single unit in a single turn or is that no longer possible?

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

You need a stack led by a hero to start a siege, but from what I get the autogarrisons are no longer a thing. How it works exactly I dunno, there was a stream about it today, but still can't be arsed to properly watch even the previous one.

 

[Reality]

By my count a fully upgraded city would have 180 siege health - that's 18 turns before battle if you don't spend any money!

I can see it reduced to 7 turns with generic options capping 26 siege attack per turn ... But spending 400 gold just to start a battle feels bad.... Some tome skills have been shown which can raise it higher but I think siege offense looks very hard to get over about 45 (26 above + earthshatter,undermine,incite rebellion)

I thought waiting 4 turns on the bigger anomalies in planetfall was slow already