Alice: Asylum (American McGee) has been rejected

[Wirdschowerdn]

Name it Eliza: Asylum and pitch it to Embracer "We will publish anything" Group.

 

[ADL]

What the fuck is EA ever going to do with American McGee's Alice? License it at least. This is almost as dumb as Warner Bros being a bunch of assholes about Asheron's Call following the Turbine sale.

 

[Dedicated_Dark]

Well atleast Madness Returns ended pretty conclusively. Would have been nice to have a third game, but I'm glad the story doesn't feel unfinished.

 

[Grim Monk]

What is stopping him from actually doing an "Americans Mgees: Oz" game?

The idea has been floating around since the orignal Alice release...

 

[lightbane]

Shame to see it die. Better to let it die than have Alice become a transfreak cripple black latinx person wtih body type 2 to "adapt 'her' to modern times".

 

[Semiurge]

This could have been the third game in the Alice series, unfortunately EA put the last nail in the coffin.

I bet if it was owned by Bethesda we'd have a KEX engine remake of the original already.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.patreon.com/posts/so-whats-next-to-81353797

So what's next? And the Answers to your questions..
Hi Everyone,

FontLord here.
Just wanted to also give a huge amount of love and hugs to everyone that joined us on this journey.
Not the result we wanted but boy did we have fun, made some great friends, saw some amazing art and nailed down one hell of a story

But some of you have written in asking about "Patreon Things" so he is a basic run down of some of that and also a little bit of a FAQ, and of course should you still have some unanswered questions after finishing this post, pop them in the comments below and we'll do a FAQ V2

So here we go, yes, if you have currently paid for a tier ($35 or $75), you WILL still get the print/plushie associated with that tier.
Plushies and art prints are still going out (even those who have unanswered Backerkit emails for the 3x$35 tier can still fill them in and choose prints)
We will be fulfilling all that going forwards, but as you know, the prints need to be signed, and American is currently away, so there's a bit of a delay on them being shipped.
The final Patreon print (March Patrons charged in April) is the one at the top of this post. Titled "Cannot Help"
But will we be doing more prints going forwards?
Obviously not on Patreon, but we do have quite the backlog of fantastic art we didn't get around to doing on Patreon, so some of those WILL be going up on sale over on Mysterious in the future.
Not sure of the timescale or which prints, but keep checking on the Mysterious Art Page for those.
------
THIS BIT IS IMPORTANT !!!
Another question is about Discord access.
We do want to keep the amazing community over on Discord going so we need to keep 1 tier alive here on Patreon. However due to some reason (a bug I have currently emailed Patreon about) we have no ability to edit/change/modify/create new Patreon/Discord tiers.
The only workaround I can currently think of is for everyone to drop to the $5 tier, that's the current lowest tier that still has Discord access.
Then in the future, when the bug is fixed, we can edit that to $1 or create a brand new $1 tier and bump you all over to that.
So to summarize, if you still would like Discord access PLEASE CHANGE YOUR TIER TO THE $5 TIER NOW.
I will be deleting all other tiers towards the end of the week.
I hope this goes smoothly as we have currently 'hibernated' the Alice: Asylum page to prevent any more money being taken from you. Shout out in the comments if you are somehow having trouble changing tiers on a hibernated Patreon page.
I expect this transition to be somewhat messy and not work exactly as planned, so please bear with us...
------
And now some quick fire Q&A from American...
1) "Why not just buy the Alice license from EA?"
Because you cannot force someone to sell something they do not want to sell. EA has said "no" to any and all offers to purchase, license, or work with the "Alice" IP (intellectual property) - and as the legal owners of the property, it is their right to decide what to do with it.
2) "Why did you sell Alice to EA in the first place?"
American did not "sell" Alice to EA. EA owned it automatically from the start. American created the first "Alice" game while he was an employee of EA. As is the case with almost all such work situations, any creations or inventions made while employed by a company end up the property of that company automatically.
3) "Just create a different style of game based on Alice In Wonderland since it is public domain"
American signed an agreement with EA to never develop any new game or property based on "Alice in Wonderland" and he signed over his name in association with the version that he created while at EA. That means he's legally barred from doing anything related to "Alice in Wonderland" outside the realm of the property he created at EA.
4) "Go find another publisher" or "just Kickstart it" and similar suggestions
This does not solve the problem and just takes the questions back the #1 - it's EA's property and they do not desire to see it developed, licensed, funded by others, etc.
5) Is there anything we can do?
No. We've done everything we can to present a vision for a new game (story and design) and plan for development. EA has reviewed what we produced and decided it's not interested in funding or allowing others to fund more Alice development. The best thing to do now is to leave it alone. That is what American plans to do.
6) What about re-releases, updates, and other platforms for the existing games?
All questions related to the existing games should be directed at EA. American has no control over these decisions.
7) Will we continue to make plushies and other things over on Mysterious?
Yes, Mysterious will continue.
8) Will you be making a hard copy of the Design Bible?
We can't do this because we don't have a license for it and the people who control that aspect of the Alice stuff (print) won't even reply to our emails.
9) What about the Alice TV show?
To the best of our knowledge, work is still happening to get a TV show made, but we're not involved in that work and don't wish to be.

And there you have it.
I hope that has answered a lot of what you were all wondering?
Again, drop us a comment below if you need to ask more.
But also, do you have any ideas about what we can do going forwards to keep our community together and potentially work on other ideas? Again, sound off in the comments, no wrong answers
Following on from all the links to the artists that American posted in the 'bad news post', I don't really do a huge amount of online social stuff, I'm old and grumpy like that. But I do still have an Instagram I post to now and then if I see something good, so why not pop over and follow?
https://www.instagram.com/f0ntl0rd/
And I can also always be found doing our online support for Mysterious too!

Once again, big ole hugs from me and I'll see you around

https://www.patreon.com/posts/post-patreon-faq-81546684

Post Patreon FAQ V2
Dear Insane Children,
FontLord here again with some more info and some more answers.

The $1 Hibernation Tier is now active.
If you are interested in still accessing the Discord and/or sending messages to this Patreon page, please move over to this tier.
This will be the one and only tier in the not too distant future.
I am not 100% sure what will happen when I start deleting tiers that people are still pledged at if you do not move. I don't assume you'll be booted from our Patreon, but it's more likely that you will remain at 'no tier' while still paying us the last amount you were pledged at which would just be silly and unnecessary.
Please move as soon as you are able!!

Regarding the 3x$35 tier.
If you believe you are part way into completing your 3, and we killed the tiers before you could complete the 3, please send us a message. We will likely just have to allow you to do a PayPal transfer to complete it.
Seems the most obvious way to do things. I have no idea how many of you will write in about this, so it might take a while doing these manually. Please bear with me...

And now more answers from American...
1) What can we do to support American right now? He has to be going through a lot, as all of you are!
I am OK. Just taking a break from the world right now. And I appreciate the concern and the offer to help. But I've been mentally preparing for this moment for a long time. Because I've known for a very long time that "Alice" isn't mine. As attached as I am to the property, I've learned to keep my distance emotionally.
The timing of all this happens to coincide with China reopening after 3 years of Covid lockdowns. During that time, we were unable to travel outside. And so the first thing I did once the borders opened was travel outside. I am now sailing with friends up the eastern coast of Australia. As many of you are aware, I love sailing and use my time at sea to recharge my batteries and refresh my mind. I am where I should be right now.

You can also follow all our socials and of course, buying something from Mysterious is always appreciated.
https://www.instagram.com/americanmcgee/
https://twitter.com/americanmcgee
https://mysterious.americanmcgee.com/

2) I would love to listen to a podcast from American. + keep streaming/lets plays? Twitch channel is still very Alice themed at the mo.
It's too early for me to decide on something like this. There are parts of me that really just want distance from the online world in general. But let's wait and see how things look once I return to land.

3) Is there any possibility of an Alice plushie getting made?

The most I can get away with at this point is art prints which I autograph. The reason is that autographed prints are sold for the autograph and not really for the art print itself. There's a long tradition of Hollywood and the games industry allowing actors, writers, and others to engage in this sort of thing. So, I'll sell autographed art prints... at least until someone (EA) tells me to stop.

4) I would love it if the Patreon page converted over into something that revolves around supporting Mysterious and any future creative endeavors the team might pursue.
If we do continue any sort of crowdfunding for any other projects (or Mysterious stuff) it will be via a fresh page and perhaps a different platform. And it would certainly take place after some period of cooling down from the current situation. The primary reason is that I don't want to feed the trolls who scream at me constantly about Patreon, Alice, and related funding topics. Ideally, we do not need to engage in any sort of Crowd Funding in the future.
But if you want to support Mysterious (thank you!) you can do that simply by engaging in our Crowd Design process (via social media) and by purchasing items from the shop. Super simple!

5) Are you guys still working on Oz?
It's "wait and see" at the moment. See the above answers about taking a break and also about creating some distance between the current situation and any future projects.

6) Maybe a stupid question but is the team happy for us to continue our art and our cosplays of the game? I just would love to see the creativity continue

You are absolutely fine to keep cosplaying Alice and using the hashtags americanmcgeesalice and similar.

7) If someone wanted to print the Bible themselves at home for personal use, is that something that you’d be okay with?
The Design Bible and Alice stuff in general is owned by EA. If you print it for personal use (not to sell) then no one is bothered.

8) I assume anything from now on in the Alice/American series is solely fan-based creations from now on? What if we wrote a book about the story to finish it?
You are free to write any Alice fanfic you wish.
I'd really love it if people could stop asking me questions about "Alice" in general. The rights are very simple - EA owns Alice and they control it. If you want to do something with the IP, you are free to do that - just like you are with all other IPs - but you get into trouble when you start trying to sell the stuff you create. Additional questions on this stuff should be directed at EA. I really want some space from "Alice" and questions related to it.
---
And a final note from American...
I just want to restate that I understand how difficult this is for many of you. I am feeling the same pain and anger as many of you. And I understand that in situations like these, we often ask ourselves "what can we do" or "what could we have done differently" in order to change the outcome. It's tough to admit right now but ultimately, we're going to need to accept that this decision and the situation, in general, is out of our control. We are not "giving up" any more than a person who is hit by a bus is "giving up." We did everything we could as a team and a group of fans to convince EA to let this next chapter happen. EA decided to kill the project and the possibility of any future for Alice. That decision is on them. But we can make a decision of our own - and it's a strong decision to make - to move on. That is what we do have in our power. And it's often one of the most difficult decisions to be made in situations like this. But it's what we must do. So, I would ask that you join me in moving on. If you decide to stay back and continue fighting... that's fine. That is your decision to make. I respect that. And I ask that you also respect my decision to move on. Thank you.

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

Didn't this drama drag around since Madness Returns came out anyway? I hate to say it but McGee at some point(past ~2015 or so I'd guess) was probably fully aware EA doesn't want anyone to do anything with the franchise and they don't want to do anything themselves either. All that time he was just grifting the fanbase for money. It's unfortunate that it's EA he's dealing with because had it been a franchise Ubi or Microsoft owning it he probably would have managed to get some kind of deal going, but let's be real - the guy tried to make Wizard of Oz game with similar edgy tilt to it, had he really been a creative volcano all that time he'd get that one made instead of Alice and then walk in front of EA headquaters with his erect penis out with all the 10/10 it's a masterpiece review scores and citations for sales numbers tatooed on it, then ask them for another go at AItW.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

McGee has always had problems trying to get Alice stuff greenlit, which baffles me because the audience is there. It just feels like he's a shit manager, sadly.

 

[Absinthe]

NaturallyCarnivorousSheep, never doubt the power of EA to sit on IP and refuse to license it. It's the reason why we don't have a sequel to Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, even though the original game was a critically acclaimed, huge success and there is persistent demand for an improved sequel. EA owns the SMAC IP rights and isn't doing anything with it and isn't letting Firaxis do anything with it either. That's why nothing happened with it for the longest time until Firaxis decided to do Civilization: Beyond Earth as a SMAC-in-spirit game, but those designers opted to deviate massively from SMAC because they needed to do things according to their own (seriously lacking) vision and it wound up sucking massively.

But maybe the SMAC IP has lapsed into the public domain by now after the extended period of inactivity. That would be a legal fight though and smaller studios don't have the appetite for it. Anyway, the problem isn't American McGee. The problem is EA.

The funny thing is, I don't think EA can make an "American McGee's Alice" game without American McGee giving EA permission to use his own name either. They'd have to take "American McGee" out of the picture. That's what EA did when they decided to make "Ultima Forever" without Richard Garriott. They had to replace "Lord British" (which is Richard Garriott's persona) with a "Lady British." And for something like EA doing their own "Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri" they would need need to excise "Sid Meier's" from the product name if Sid Meier doesn't give his approval. And for an Alice project EA can't mention American McGee's name without his permission either.

What a lot of this boils down to is EA squatting on IPs they refuse to license, sell, or release back to the developers when EA cannot reasonably use those IPs on their own either. Basically making sure to be aggressively useless to everyone. But it's always easy to say no and do nothing, and sometimes it makes bureaucrats feel powerful too.

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

Missing my point. McGee is creatively dead at the moment. Had be not been he could've easily founded a studio and ran a fundraiser(both from crowdfunding and investors) to get his Wizard of Oz game he used to have in his plans, or any other thing that would fit his style, and then after that would be a good proof of concept that you can make a game like this and it'll work out financially EA would come to him like a shark smelling blood. Crazy Horse(the studio that made MR) was kind of that strategy, and the proof of concept of a game they've made before Alice was pretty shit, so if he had it in him he'd make it happen again, especially in an around 2015 when publishers started looking out to diversify from purely AAA catalogue.
Problem is that he's an old washout and all those things require too much effort. What he wants is EA to give him creative director role where he would mostly serve as a figurehead for his fans

 

[Semiurge]

What is stopping him from actually doing an "Americans Mgees: Oz" game?

The idea has been floating around since the orignal Alice release...

That made me remember the toy line that appeared around the same time.

I like how the severed head has a corncob stuffed into its mouth

 

[Baron Dupek]

Last time I've heard about him he was sailing on some house+boat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_McGee
quite rough "Early Life" section

It's been a while since I talked about Alice: Asylum and questions keep appearing in my comments so... a few final words.

The Alice: Asylum Discord Server is still up and running - so if you want a place to continue your conversations, that's a fine place to start. Details for joining it are over on the (now hibernated) Patreon page: https://patreon.com/americanmcgee

You will also find that the final posts to Patreon contain answers to other Frequently Asked Questions.

As always, I am incredibly grateful to the Alice community for their years of support. And I hope everyone has a happy future.

 

[Fedora Master]

You bumped the thread for this?

 

[Angnomynous Wasp Scholar]

Thanks for bumping the thread for this

 

[luj1]

His work on Quake and Quake 2 will not be forgotten. Legendary mapper.

 

[gabel]

The two Alice games are enjoyable as well.
What I don't understand: Alice must be public domain by now (1865!). How can the video game rights be with EA?

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

The two Alice games are enjoyable as well.
What I don't understand: Alice must be public domain by now (1865!). How can the video game rights be with EA?

The "American McGee's Alice" is copyrighted and owned by EA, legally speaking Alice in the Wonderland and AMG Alice are different properties. That's for example why there's Pirates! and Sid Meier's Pirates! while the word is generic it is a registered IP(on top of that videogame with the same theme) so adding a name to it protects(protected?) Firaxis from having to deal with suits from whoever owned the non-meiers pirates.

Going back to Alice, the simplest explanation is that while it is public domain, the presentation of it by McGee isn't.

 

[gabel]

Imagine being the guy who created a franchise having his copyright (which is his name!) being owned by a megacorp, and being denied producing a sequel well into pre-production, lel.
Still, why doesn't he develop another Alice franchise, calling it something different than "American McGee's"?

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

Still, why doesn't he develop another Alice franchise, calling it something different than "American McGee's"?

Iirc he signed a deal that he won't.

 

[gabel]

Well in that case, fuck him. lol.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

The two Alice games are enjoyable as well.
What I don't understand: Alice must be public domain by now (1865!). How can the video game rights be with EA?

The "American McGee's Alice" is copyrighted and owned by EA, legally speaking Alice in the Wonderland and AMG Alice are different properties. That's for example why there's Pirates! and Sid Meier's Pirates! while the word is generic it is a registered IP(on top of that videogame with the same theme) so adding a name to it protects(protected?) Firaxis from having to deal with suits from whoever owned the non-meiers pirates.

Going back to Alice, the simplest explanation is that while it is public domain, the presentation of it by McGee isn't.

To add to this, the initial publication is what's public domain. Similarly, Winnie the Pooh is already on the public domain and you can make your own work based off it, provided you never give him a red shirt.
Disney has been twisting and turning the laws of copyright to prevent a public domain status for Steamboat Willie, the first short that depicted Mickey Mouse. This could make irreparable damage to freedom of speech in America, but hey, it's Disney, right?

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Dude's a survivor. Cause he survived his mom.

 

[Semiurge]

Still, why doesn't he develop another Alice franchise, calling it something different than "American McGee's"?

Like "McGee's Alice" or "The Adventures of Alice McGee" or something.