Preview Alpha Protocol Preview at Worth Playing

[Azrael the cat]

I always been on the "all loot should make sense" fence. Meaning that all enemies should drop what they are using and that you only find money laying around in logical places, etc.

An easily overlooked thing that Deus Ex, and for that matter The Nameless Mod, did very very well (want cash, better rob a store/bank/apartment or hack an ATM), and most games since have done very very poorly.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Oh great, a hacking minigame.

and a kinda clunky looking dialogue system. Especially since you have to make the decision about what to say BEFORE the dialogue ends, which is stupid, because you have to pay attention both to the answers, the text and the timer at the same time.

and a grenade indicator.

and enemy AI still is stupid (but apparently these are sucky 'early game' enemies).

and just what the hell is the purpose of this 'focused aim' perk when all enemies have triangles flying above their heads without it?

meh

but weapon modding doesn't look bad. So does the 'you can be as much lethal as nonlethal' thingy. And the fact that the commando guys at the very end and grenades do quite a lot of damage. And the 'xp for evading' result.

Might not be bad. But I'd like to see a proper stealth playthrough.

 

[circ]

Ok that new trailer makes it truly look like Mass Effect with spies. Even the skill system is the same. And if that's the road it's taking, I can't see it do anything else than suck in the RPG department. But maybe the story will be better, who knows.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Ok that new trailer makes it truly look like Mass Effect with spies. Even the skill system is the same.

Yeah, I remember I had lots of fun in ME sneaking past the enemies and using gadgets to mess with their heads.

And if that's the road it's taking, I can't see it do anything else than suck in the RPG department. But maybe the story will be better, who knows.

Wrong. Alpha Protocol may turn out to suck in the combat department. At least to me, the RPG department has always been about decision making. You know, role-playing.

Newfags are the cancer that is killing the prestigious magazine.

 

[circ]

Yeah, I remember I had lots of fun in ME sneaking past the enemies and using gadgets to mess with their heads.

Oh I'm sorry. It's Mass Effect WITH stealth.

Wrong. Alpha Protocol may turn out to suck in the combat department. At least to me, the RPG department has always been about decision making. You know, role-playing.

Newfags are the cancer that is killing the prestigious magazine.

Decision making like, every game with a linear binary path of dialogue options. Yeah I'm more interested in the character development in this case. Because p&p RPGs weren't quicktime button mashing. What I see of character development is Mass Effect. A game you could finish without investing a single point in a single skill. No really.

You seriously can't see just how close it is to ME? Knowing ME, that's not good news so far.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Oh I'm sorry. It's Mass Effect WITH stealth.

That Deus Ex game? Pah, just Quake with stealth and some stats. Adding an alternate way to get through the game is not a minor tweak.

Decision making like, every game with a linear binary path of dialogue options.

What the fuck does that even mean? If you have options that mean something then the game is no longer linear, by definition. You fail, shithead.

Yeah I'm more interested in the character development in this case. Because p&p RPGs weren't quicktime button mashing.

What? CRPGs are not P&P, they don't feel like P&P, and they will never feel like P&P. I do agree that DSS doesn't really add anything compared to traditional dialogue systems, but I can live with it if the game offers me a lot of choices to make, which it seems to.

What I see of character development is Mass Effect. A game you could finish without investing a single point in a single skill. No really.

Then you should probably open your eyes. ME skills were all geared towards combat. Not so with Alpha Protocol.

You seriously can't see just how close it is to ME? Knowing ME, that's not good news so far.

No. I can see how it is close to Bloodlines and Deus Ex though.

 

[MetalCraze]

I remember I had lots of fun in ME sneaking past the enemies and using gadgets to mess with their heads.

Yeah well too bad every time Obsidian talks about stealth in AP they always mention that it is basically a stealthy takedown of enemies using gadgets to mess with their heads called this big huge gun.
So Mass Effect is better see

Then you should probably open your eyes. ME skills were all geared towards combat. Not so with Alpha Protocol.

Correct - AP added absolutely useless lockpicking/hacking skills that are not needed at all because you will still have to play retarded mini-games no matter your skill - my god it's totally like Deus Ex and VtmB.

In fact I can see Deus Ex all over the place there - especially in the stupid one-word long "dialogues". And VtmB is totally there - just look how many actual non-combat skills Mass Protocol has that matter starting with Diplomacy/Persuasion.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

I remember I had lots of fun in ME sneaking past the enemies and using gadgets to mess with their heads.

Yeah well too bad every time Obsidian talks about stealth in AP they always mention that it is basically a stealthy takedown of enemies using gadgets to mess with their heads called this big huge gun.
So Mass Effect is better see

Come on, don't sink to the level of blatant lies.

 

[MetalCraze]

Perhaps you should reread those previews where Obsidian goes like "oh you can then do this stealthy take down - stealth!" Stealth my ass.

Game that has stealth is the game where it is possible to do 100% stealth walkthroughs of levels without hurting anyone.

With AP it will be more like - sneak/"stealth"kill a few enemies then proceed to kill hordes of them before doing a "stealth" kill again. The last one is what I think it will be like because judging by the videos and how full corridors with enemies are I doubt it will be otherwise.
In fact I think the only reason why Obsidian added stealth perk there is to "oh look BLAM what a kewl "stealth" take down from behind".

 

[Fat Dragon]

That a dumbed down action RPG like AP is being compared to the great DX saddens me. It might possibly end up a decent action romp, maybe, but it will never be able to stand next to DX. DX didn't have infinite ammo, didn't have magic spells that let you slow down time and quickly score five head shots in under three seconds, didn't have gay minigames, and didn't fully replenish your health after a few seconds. Like has already been said, AP is basically just a Mass Effect clone (for good or ill) with stealth play thrown in. It will be nothing like DX.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Perhaps you should reread those previews where Obsidian goes like "oh you can then do this stealthy take down - stealth!" Stealth my ass.

Game that has stealth is the game where it is possible to do 100% stealth walkthroughs of levels without hurting anyone.

With AP it will be more like - sneak/"stealth"kill a few enemies then proceed to kill hordes of them before doing a "stealth" kill again. The last one is what I think it will be like because judging by the videos and how full corridors with enemies are I doubt it will be otherwise.
In fact I think the only reason why Obsidian added stealth perk there is to "oh look BLAM what a kewl "stealth" take down from behind".

There are non-lethal takedowns that work the same way blackjack in Thief did.

 

[circ]

That Deus Ex game? Pah, just Quake with stealth and some stats. Adding an alternate way to get through the game is not a minor tweak.

I wonder how stealth is going to make you get past those russian mob characters in that demo. Maybe you sneak and sneak until you reach some checkpoint. Or maybe you just sneak behind them and tell them about your collar grabbing moves. Is the tagline 'choices' really Deus Ex choices, or just hype, meaning another way to do combat. I'll take hype in this day and age.

What the fuck does that even mean? If you have options that mean something then the game is no longer linear, by definition. You fail, shithead.

Here's where I think it's linear. Ally with agent a, b or c. Get to the end boss. Have allies help you or not. End boss says, join me or divulge the secrets if you dare! Two choices, pretty linear. All whilst having gotten to that point through linear courses with two dialogue choices. Be an asshole or team player. Which results in either more people shooting at you, or more people shooting at the bad guys.

What? CRPGs are not P&P, they don't feel like P&P, and they will never feel like P&P. I do agree that DSS doesn't really add anything compared to traditional dialogue systems, but I can live with it if the game offers me a lot of choices to make, which it seems to.

No, obviously. They do have stats though, and I'll get to those.

Then you should probably open your eyes. ME skills were all geared towards combat. Not so with Alpha Protocol.

ME had half a dozen weapon skills, including bio and engineering stuff. AND; one skill for dialogue.

AP has a similar amount of weapon skills, stealth, sabotage (ties in with stealth maybe or other CHOICES!), technical aptitude (minigame stupidity), toughness (more hp or something), martial arts (weapon skill with moves instead of pistols and smg's).

Yeah no, that doesn't look like a bunch of combat skills at all. Add to that that the character stat screens look almost exactly like the ones from ME, down to a mini you to the left of the data and skill trees that open up new 'special moves'. I don't remember every Diablo clone copying its interface down to almost the last pixel.

No. I can see how it is close to Bloodlines and Deus Ex though.

Yeah, all I see is ME done the Obsidian way.

 

[MetalCraze]

Does it change anything? A dead enemy on the floor vs. unconscious enemy on the floor - the same thing really.
Also in Thief blackjacking someone either meant that guards will now give you a hard time if they will find a body (and I doubt you can hide bodies in AP) or you will fail a level if you even touch someone. In other words - don't use Thief comparisons with the game where you can dispatch any horde of enemies with your regenerating health and a big gun.

 

[Rosh]

Does it change anything? A dead enemy on the floor vs. unconscious enemy on the floor - the same thing really.

This could have some valid use somewhere, but only if the setting/game provided for it. It would mean the difference of being wanted for murder, or merely assault, if witnessed or if evidence could be proven. If not, then it could increase the reaction type of the enemies, might make them a bit edgy and more alert, as you said with Thief. That could also be taken further to the point of a police precinct to authorize lethal force if their previous orders were merely to patrol and detain.

 

[MetalCraze]

True. But unfortunately we are talking about AP here where enemies already know how you look and will attack you on sight. It isn't even some Hitman: Blood Money where such things actually made a difference on the following missions although the implementation was a bit bad.
Besides the developers specifically said that the player will be rewarded no matter the choice. Obsidian will also never add such depth into their game - simply because they never did and with their current mentality "we cater to casual crowd while throwing some little things at people who actually enjoy games" I doubt it will happen any time soon.

 

[kris]

and a grenade indicator.

Would be good if based upon your characters perception. Or at least something you get if he acquire a feat. Overall though that is there because a player don't have the same spatial awareness in the game as IRL.

 

[M_I_C_K_E_Y_M_O_U_S_E]

Health kits and ammo clips are the new regenerating health and unlimited ammo... or something. Did you actually watch this demo skyway?

 

[elander_]

Besides the developers specifically said that the player will be rewarded no matter the choice. Obsidian will also never add such depth into their game - simply because they never did and with their current mentality "we cater to casual crowd while throwing some little things at people who actually enjoy games" I doubt it will happen any time soon.

That wasn't very well worded but with a bit of reading skill it could be interpreted as the player won't be penalized for role-playing and every choice is a viable path which is what every good crpg does.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Besides the developers specifically said that the player will be rewarded no matter the choice. Obsidian will also never add such depth into their game - simply because they never did and with their current mentality "we cater to casual crowd while throwing some little things at people who actually enjoy games" I doubt it will happen any time soon.

That wasn't very well worded but with a bit of reading skill it could be interpreted as the player won't be penalized for role-playing and every choice is a viable path which is what every good crpg does.

That's what I got from it too. Not "every character is a demigod". Like, you won't be tempted to go combat because being a diplomat sucks in comparison.

 

[MetalCraze]

That wasn't very well worded but with a bit of reading skill it could be interpreted as the player won't be penalized for role-playing and every choice is a viable path which is what every good crpg does.

So? That's exactly what I'm talking about.
Actually a good crpg penalize the player for stupid choices - by actually closing some paths. What the developer said is that it isn't going to happen. Instead they are talking about how your character will never suck, any choice is rewarding and how everything will be available to you right away, the only thing skills do is making a difficulty even easier.
What happened to a good old "sorry man you're fucked up - no candy for you" from the older RPGs which actually made you think about what you are doing instead of giving you the other rewarding path that often leads to the exactly same outcome?

That's what I got from it too. Not "every character is a demigod". Like, you won't be tempted to go combat because being a diplomat sucks in comparison.

Except your character is a demigod in AP, eh putting hordes of enemies down right away, hitting tables with people heads Mass Effect XTREME way and using "spells".
Also there are no diplomatic/persuasion/interaction skills in AP.

 

[Dionysus]

That wasn't very well worded but with a bit of reading skill it could be interpreted as the player won't be penalized for role-playing and every choice is a viable path which is what every good crpg does.

I don't think so. In Fallout you suffer a net penalty for making a character with <4 IN or getting a child-killer tag. In Arcanum, if you use a weapon that you aren't skilled with, you will suffer critical failures.

In Alpha Protocol, they didn't include to-hit rolls because they don't want to punish player choice. This is a different philosophy aimed at bringing in players that don't want to feel restricted by the character sheet.

 

[Jim Cojones]

That wasn't very well worded but with a bit of reading skill it could be interpreted as the player won't be penalized for role-playing and every choice is a viable path which is what every good crpg does.

Every good RPG also allow you to make bad decisions and fuck some quests up. Why? Because making mistakes is a part of playing a game. If you are never penalized for "role playing decisions" and you can just randomly develop your character, still being able to beat the game or you can just click your way through dialogues without thinking what should your character say and get rewarded equally to another player who was more careful, then you're not playing action RPG but a shooter with some role playing elements.

Example 1 (probably similar to AP):
In Mass Effect, at one point, the frog guy doesn't accept your actions. If you had decided to help him before and do a quest for him, he'd continued working with you despite his feelings. What would happen if you hadn't cared about him and hadn't spoken to him even once after he joined? You just had to shout at him/beg him for a while.

Example 2:
"(Salvatore looks up at you, takes a breath from the mask.) Have... you disposed of the thief?"
"Yep. The vultures are probably shitting pieces of him out right now."
But actually you had been a nice guy and let Lloyd live. Quests blocked, you have to fight against whole family. Have a nice day!

I guess ME is a better RPG than Fo2 because "the player isn't penalized for role-playing and every choice is a viable path which is what every good crpg does" but I'm some kind of pervert and find the consequence from the second example much more interesting.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I think "won't get penalized" likely means "won't have to follow a strict stat build in order to suceed / have fun". Like "put all points in speed or else your character sucks. And dump charisma, it's useless".

For example, I pumped charisma for my first FO3 character, only to read on the internet that it is totally useless and that I also needed repair so I wouldn't have to rely on shopkeepers all the time, etc. Good old games would give me something to do with all that Charisma, like they would give me something to do with my other stats, so no character is complete shit; they will be shit in some areas but be good in ohers.

So I guess the point is that AP will give me things to do with what I chose instead of making me go to a forum and ask what skills should I avoid like the plague. Like the Skilled trait in FO2 (less perks for 5 more skill points).

Let's say, AP won't make you ditch your other weapons for the shotgun because the shotgun doesn't horribly outclass every other weapon and there are benefits for using pistols, like being concealable.

 

[M_I_C_K_E_Y_M_O_U_S_E]

That wasn't very well worded but with a bit of reading skill it could be interpreted as the player won't be penalized for role-playing and every choice is a viable path which is what every good crpg does.

Every good RPG also allow you to make bad decisions and fuck some quests up. Why? Because making mistakes is a part of playing a game. If you are never penalized for "role playing decisions" and you can just randomly develop your character, still being able to beat the game or you can just click your way through dialogues without thinking what should your character say and get rewarded equally to another player who was more careful, then you're not playing action RPG but a shooter with some role playing elements.

Example 1 (probably similar to AP):
In Mass Effect, at one point, the frog guy doesn't accept your actions. If you had decided to help him before and do a quest for him, he'd continued working with you despite his feelings. What would happen if you hadn't cared about him and hadn't spoken to him even once after he joined? You just had to shout at him/beg him for a while.

Example 2:
"(Salvatore looks up at you, takes a breath from the mask.) Have... you disposed of the thief?"
"Yep. The vultures are probably shitting pieces of him out right now."
But actually you had been a nice guy and let Lloyd live. Quests blocked, you have to fight against whole family. Have a nice day!

I guess ME is a better RPG than Fo2 because "the player isn't penalized for role-playing and every choice is a viable path which is what every good crpg does" but I'm some kind of pervert and find the consequence from the second example much more interesting.

Example 1 is a lie. You either have to persuade Wrex or you get his armor back. If not then he dies.

 

[Dionysus]

So I guess the point is that AP will give me things to do with what I chose instead of making me go to a forum and ask what skills should I avoid like the plague. Like the Skilled trait in FO2 (less perks for 5 more skill points).

The concern is that they'll give you "things to do" with what you didn't choose. For example, it's clear that they want you to feel proficient with weapons that you don't invest skill points in. If you invest skill points then you'll get magic powers. If you invest points into hacking, you will play an easy minigame, but if you don't invest points, you can still play the minigame and access the computer.