Preview Alpha Protocol Preview at Worth Playing

[MetalCraze]

But at first, we blasted through a horde of guards...
...Alpha Protocol felt much more like a third-person shooter than an RPG...
...Our biggest concern was that when you play a low-level D&D character, you kind of suck...
...So while you will see XP earnings pop up in all the usual places, we were also able to deftly connect with headshots right from the start...

It is called "The Power of Reading Between The Lines". It's a cool perk, it lets you disconnect bullshit from a traditional hype. Take it on the next level-up, strongly recommended.

Just watch the fucking gameplay video. You aren't stupid enough to imply that all mechanics will be revised for the final game, and it's all just a marketing stunt, are you?

I've seen two gameplay videos, in both Mike Thorton had no problem gunning down enemies - in one of the videos the enemies were even marked with arrows, despite being 100 m away behind the bunch of walls. Your point is?

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

But at first, we blasted through a horde of guards...
...Alpha Protocol felt much more like a third-person shooter than an RPG...
...Our biggest concern was that when you play a low-level D&D character, you kind of suck...
...So while you will see XP earnings pop up in all the usual places, we were also able to deftly connect with headshots right from the start...

It is called "The Power of Reading Between The Lines". It's a cool perk, it lets you disconnect bullshit from a traditional hype. Take it on the next level-up, strongly recommended.

There is nothing to read between the lines here. Low-level D&D sucks, it's a well-known fact. A fucking cat can kill a first level wizard on a crit. Not because you made a mistake and deserve to die, but because the dice hate you. I'm glad to know that Alpha Protocol won't have this stupidity. If it's not hardcore enough for you, too bad. Go play a rogue-like.

I've seen two gameplay videos, in both Mike Thorton had no problem gunning down enemies - in one of the videos the enemies were even marked with arrows, despite being 100 m away behind the bunch of walls. Your point is?

Watch them again. Targeting isn't instant.

 

[MetalCraze]

How about you will re-read the whole post again and will see something else besides one single line a meaning of which you distorted?
You see - re-reading that post is available to you from the start it will be just difficult without that skill.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

What's there to address?
1. Blasting through a horde of guards? That's something a combat-focused character should be able to do.
2. Combat feels like it's from a shooter? So do Bloodlines and Deus Ex.
3. Headshots were addressed already.
Seriously, skyway, stop being so full of shit.

 

[Dagon]

Sorry Skyway, but even if you are right no one will take you seriously because of your obsession to bash OBSIDIAN and CDProjekt RED...
I know that you are pretty intelligent fellow, but seriously sometimes when I'm lurlking this forum I wonder if you were paid by those companies to hype their games, using reverse psychology.

 

[Dionysus]

2. Combat feels like it's from a shooter? So do Bloodlines and Deus Ex.

I doubt it. Here's the most suggestive comment I've read from the devs concerning this issue:

It was more of a personal choice. We could have gone with the hidden dice rolls, and that was considered early in development, but we realized that with the amount of action going on that it just didn't make sense.

Personally, nothing annoyed me more than skilling up my assault rifle skill, taking time to aim that the guy's head, pulling the trigger, and having *Miss* showing up in debug text. At that moment you would have probably heard my controller falling to my desk with me yelling some colorful expletive.

The biggest reason was probably because we didn't want to punish the player for the choices they make. A similar example would be a player stealthing through a level to a target, attempting to use a silenced pistol to kill someone, missing, and having an alarm go off because of it. That kind of randomness just ticks people off.

They don't want to punish player choice, and this philosophy directs the way that skills are implemented. They don't want to punish the player for not putting any skill points into hacking, so the player will be able to hack anything as long as he or she is good enough at the minigame. This isn't just cynicism. It's a theme that shows up in their design decisions and the way that they explain those decisions. I'm not even saying that it's an inherently bad philosophy, but it's not good news for RPG fans.

 

[MetalCraze]

What's there to address?
1. Blasting through a horde of guards? That's something a combat-focused character should be able to do.
2. Combat feels like it's from a shooter? So do Bloodlines and Deus Ex.
3. Headshots were addressed already.
Seriously, skyway, stop being so full of shit.

OK I see that it is hard without a quest compass.

That quote simply points out that it is easy to blast through a whole horde of enemies even right from the start of the game meaning there is no challenge as your character obviously doesn't suck no matter his skill. Additional skills only open "spells" that make the game even easier.

See it isn't that hard.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

They don't want to punish player choice, and this philosophy directs the way that skills are implemented. They don't want to punish the player for not putting any skill points into hacking, so the player will be able to hack anything as long as he or she is good enough at the minigame. This isn't just cynicism. It's a theme that shows up in their design decisions and the way that they explain those decisions. I'm not even saying that it's an inherently bad philosophy, but it's not good news for RPG fans.

That's not how I see it. They're saying they don't want to punish the player for the choices he makes by making all options equally enjoyable and profitable, eliminating the meta-gaming "things will be easier if I do this instead of that" factor. You won't be able to hack computers without good hacking skill, but that won't make the game any more boring or unsatisfying to play. Obviously, Obsidian's statements can be interpreted both ways, but gameplay videos and trailers gave me very Deus Ex-ish vibe, so I'll remain optimistic.

OK I see that it is hard without a quest compass.

That quote simply points out that it is easy to blast through a whole horde of enemies even right from the start of the game meaning there is no challenge as your character obviously doesn't suck no matter his skill. Additional skills only open "spells" that make the game even easier.

See it isn't that hard.

A low-level character can blast through low-level enemies at the beginning of the game? Fucking consolitis!

 

[circ]

2. Combat feels like it's from a shooter? So do Bloodlines and Deus Ex.

Those were pretty bad examples. Bloodlines combat doesn't feel like a shooter at all. Melee is clunky at first and ranged is clunky all the time and there's no aiming aids. And Deus Ex isn't exactly the most RPGy game ever. AP on the other hand claims to be pretty damn RPGy.

 

[Black]

A low-level character can blast through low-level enemies at the beginning of the game? Fucking consolitis!

Wasn't this supposed to be a spy-themed game? Blasting through enemies hardly does feel like spying.

 

[kris]

That quote simply points out that it is easy to blast through a whole horde of enemies even right from the start of the game meaning there is no challenge as your character obviously doesn't suck no matter his skill. Additional skills only open "spells" that make the game even easier.

We clearly don't know if it will be easy or not. We can only guess that. Now judging by recent trends in this game I find it very likely it will be easy though, but likely far harder than the "can't possible fail" game called Fable2.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Wasn't this supposed to be a spy-themed game? Blasting through enemies hardly does feel like spying.

Not like a ninja-like spy, but a Bond-like spy. They're not trying to be very realistic, that's why they have dual wielding pistols loli

 

[Dionysus]

That's not how I see it. They're saying they don't want to punish the player for the choices he makes by making all options equally enjoyable and profitable, eliminating the meta-gaming "things will be easier if I do this instead of that" factor.

No. Read it again. He's talking about why weapon skill won't affect to-hit rolls. The biggest reason is that they don't want to punish player choice. You are obviously fooling yourself here.

You won't be able to hack computers without good hacking skill, but that won't make the game any more boring or unsatisfying to play.

No, I probably will be able to win the minigames with low character skill. I can already tell that I'll probably be good at the circuit game. It might be harder with low skill, just as Oblivion's lockpicking game was harder, but they are making it clear that it will be possible to do these things with low character skill.

I think it's pretty obvious that the RPG potential for this game will be mostly limited to the way that the world reacts to the player rather than the character sheet. I'm not even saying that this is inherently bad, but it isn't really good news for someone looking for something more like Bloodlines, for example.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

No. Read it again. He's talking about why weapon skill won't affect to-hit rolls. The biggest reason is that they don't want to punish player choice. You are obviously fooling yourself here.

What? There are no to-hit rolls. What weapon skill does affect, however, is how fast the crosshair size reduces from "Holy shit! I'll be lucky if I manage to land a shot!" to "See that fly over there? I can hit it.". You will still miss a lot if you run 'n' gun.

No, I probably will be able to win the minigames with low character skill. I can already tell that I'll probably be good at the circuit game. It might be harder with low skill, just as Oblivion's lockpicking game was harder, but they are making it clear that it will be possible to do these things with low character skill.

I don't know much about how lockpicking works to say for sure, but there is no way in hell you'll do the hacking minigame with low skill. You'll have to be able to find 5 numbers that don't change their value scattered around on a 10x10 grid of constantly shifting numbers in 5 seconds. If you can pull this off you are not human, and the game was not designed for you.

I think it's pretty obvious that the RPG potential for this game will be mostly limited to the way that the world reacts to the player rather than the character sheet. I'm not even saying that this is inherently bad, but it isn't really good news for someone looking for something more like Bloodlines, for example.

Even if all your grave predictions come true it's still a lot. An RPG with actual role-playing is a rare sight these days.

Those were pretty bad examples. Bloodlines combat doesn't feel like a shooter at all. Melee is clunky at first and ranged is clunky all the time and there's no aiming aids.

Bullshit. Your accuracy with .50 caliber pistol and Steyr Aug is freightening once you get Ranged feat high. It's certainly not clunky.

And Deus Ex isn't exactly the most RPGy game ever.

More RPGy than most "pure" RPGs.

AP on the other hand claims to be pretty damn RPGy.

Rightfully so. Freedom of choice + gameplay is affected by skills.

 

[Dionysus]

What? There are no to-hit rolls.

Yes, and he's explaining why. They don't want to punish player choice. I can think of some fine reasons to avoid to-hit rolls, but that's definitely not one of them. They want all players to be able to use all weapons with impunity, regardless of character build. If you increase your weapons skill, things will just be faster and easier, and you will get magic powers.

I don't know much about how lockpicking works to say for sure, but there is no way in hell you'll do the hacking minigame with low skill. You'll have to be able to find 5 numbers that don't change their value scattered around on a 10x10 grid of constantly shifting numbers in 5 seconds.

If I understand what you are saying, that doesn't sound hard at all. It shouldn't be difficult to identify static numbers in a dynamic pattern. That should pop out. I play a lot of non-RPGs, so I'm not bad at attention and performance-type tasks.

 

[Black]

Yes, and he's explaining why. They don't want to punish player choice.

Awww, how sweet of them. Is there a "win button" by any chance? You know, not to punish people who want to finish the game but can't be bothered playing it.

 

[Secretninja]

It is called "The Power of Reading Between The Lines". It's a cool perk, it lets you disconnect bullshit from a traditional hype. Take it on the next level-up, strongly recommended.

It is actually called reeding komprehenzion. It lets you rede gud, and tell wut he meant by wut he sed.

Reading between the lines implies that there is a deeper message to be found if you take your time and infer what has not been actually said.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Yes, and he's explaining why. They don't want to punish player choice. I can think of some fine reasons to avoid to-hit rolls, but that's definitely not one of them. They want all players to be able to use all weapons with impunity, regardless of character build. If you increase your weapons skill, things will just be faster and easier, and you will get magic powers.

I don't give a shit about how they explain why they did the things they did. I've seen trailers, I've seen how the combat actually works, and I'm fine with it. Go on and read Torment vision statement. It makes Torment sound like a game about a huge big-muscled macho man who kicks a lot of ass, does EXTREME things and fucks demon girls who drool all over him because of his primal, beastial charm, a game designed as fuel for escapist fantasies of horny teenagers. And you know what? All of this is true. Torment does have all of this. Then check out some Bloodlines preview material. It's full of footage of a high-level Tremere blowing shit up with Blood Boil and Jeanette's tits. See where I'm going? Hype campaign always tries to appeal to the widest possible demographic.

If I understand what you are saying, that doesn't sound hard at all. It shouldn't be difficult to identify static numbers in a dynamic pattern. That should pop out. I play a lot of non-RPGs, so I'm not bad at attention and performance-type tasks.

You simply won't have enough time to spot several static numbers located at different parts of the grid and then click on all of them in a couple of seconds. At least I won't be able to and will have to buy some ranks in Technical Aptitude, so the system works for me.

 

[MetalCraze]

Reading between the lines implies that there is a deeper message to be found if you take your time and infer what has not been actually said.

Yes there was a deeper message - it was "we don't want to punish the player right from the start". And also "there will be no meaningful combat, just grinding" whereas in real RPGs even one enemy can provide a challenge. Coupled with the total inability of Obsidian to create even a bearable combat system this will be a disaster. As you can see not everyone sees something as simple as that. But perhaps your definition is more correct.

 

[Dionysus]

I don't give a shit about how they explain why they did the things they did.

You don't care about what they say, unless they say something ambiguous that you could conceivably construe in a way that it positive from your perspective. When they repeatedly indicate that a low character skill level will not produce real limitations in the way the game is played, you ignore it. When they show ridiculously easy gameplay at the E3 demo, you ignore it. If Rorie says that minigames will be a lot tougher with low skill level, you think they will be practically impossible. The truth is, picking a very hard lock in Oblivion is much more difficult if a character has low skill rather than high skill. For some players, it might be practically impossible. But a good player can still do it with a low-skill character. If they wanted to make this sort of thing impossible, then they would just set minimum requirements. But they don't want to make it impossible because they don't want to punish character customization choices.

Hype campaign always tries to appeal to the widest possible demographic.

This isn't Torment. It's a big budget multiplatform game. You are setting yourself up for a surprise.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

You don't care about what they say, unless they say something ambiguous that you could conceivably construe in a way that it positive from your perspective.

It's a bit different. I'm dismissing it as typical PR bullshit. Grains of understanding of what good RPG design really is are common enough in preview material to support this theory.

When they repeatedly indicate that a low character skill level will not produce real limitations in the way the game is played, you ignore it.

They don't indicate it. It's you being a reader between the lines extraordinaire. Hacking and lockping is pretty much impossible with low skill level. Hit points and damage reduction are tied to the Toughness skill. Accuracy is significantly affected by your skill with the weapon you're holding.

When they show ridiculously easy gameplay at the E3 demo, you ignore it.

I don't ignore it. I like it. Just keep in mind that Mike is a combat-focused character there, mkay?

If Rorie says that minigames will be a lot tougher with low skill level, you think they will be practically impossible. The truth is, picking a very hard lock in Oblivion is much more difficult if a character has low skill rather than high skill. For some players, it might be practically impossible. But a good player can still do it with a low-skill character.

Oblivion didn't have a goddamn time limit.

If they wanted to make this sort of thing impossible, then they would just set minimum requirements.

Why? It makes more sense if you can still attempt to pick a lock. What's there to prevent you from sticking a lockpick inside the lock? Dungeon Lords, of all things, did a pretty good job with lockpicking. As long as you had a single rank in the according skill you could try to pick any lock, disarm any trap, but the minigame would be unwinnable. I don't remember how the minigame worked exactly, but spamming reload didn't help.

But they don't want to make it impossible because they don't want to punish character customization choices.

It's the other way around. They want to reward all character customization choices. The difference is subtle, but it's there.

This isn't Torment. It's a big budget multiplatform game.

It's also an Obsidian game. They've never let me down. Oh, and you forgot to address Bloodines PR campaign. It doesn't fit your perspective?

You are setting yourself up for a surprise.

Perhaps, perhaps not. October will tell. If AP turns out to be a dumbed down PoS, not the Deus Ex successor I'm hoping for, I'll admit it.

 

[Turok]

Eh new video, i dont like much the dialog system, but what the hell looks good to play.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/globa ... ocol/51869

 

[SimpleComplexity]

Finally they managed to make a decent gameplay video showing most of the RPG aspects. Compared to the last video it looks like they polished it quite a bit.

It looks rather bad though, stupid popups everytime you say something right (+1 reputation), so you know exactly how to handle each character, at least make it optional. The coverystem completely ruins the boss fight, as long as you stay behind those pipes you are invincible, absolutely no challenge. Edit, ok just saw that they use grenades. At around 12:58 one grenade hits him and he presses just one button to heal himself up again, lol.

And Crates. A lot of crates. Hey, you have to take cover behind something.

 

[Jasede]

Maybe they put in random loot into each crate and barrel.

Man, know what KOTOR needed, besides Uninstall? A "collect everything from every container in this map" pop-up or button, kinda like Jagged Alliance 2 had for dropped items. (What an awesome feature, didn't dumb down the game at all, really. Just saved time and annoyance.)

Or less lazy loot "placement". (I use quotes because the game had none.)

 

[kris]

I always been on the "all loot should make sense" fence. Meaning that all enemies should drop what they are using and that you only find money laying around in logical places, etc.