Preview Alpha Protocol Video Walkthrough

[kris]

Obviously things can change as we tweak the game.

About how much of the game is combat?

 

[janjetina]

So it looks like Mass Effect. Who cares? Was the look of Mass Effect what made it a bad game?

Hey, are there going to be hundreds of crappy guns and a terrible inventory screen? Is there going to be this really horrible vehicle that you drive around barren planets? Is the game going to include inane quests like "Hey Mike Thorton can you negotiate peace between this religious civilian guy and the police officer who wants him to move off the street?" "Can you resolve a dispute between this retired General and his whore?"

My goodness if you're complaining because the dialogue system is similar and because the skill screen looks the same you need to get a life. There was nothing wrong with the actual Mass Effect dialogue system. It was really no different than any other. Claiming that it's actually cool and innovative is annoying, but the system in and of itself was fine. Alpha Protocol's system might be worse because of the timer and the stance system, but that doesn't make it like Mass Effect.

The game itself was in production well before Mass Effect was released. They both use UE3 and they're both 3rd person RPG/shooters. Most of the other elements that they'll have in common will be shit that they have in common with just about any other RPG. Oh my gosh Thorton uses guns and so did Shepard! It's the same fucking game!

Why don't you take Morgoth's hand in marriage and live happily ever after on the ESF forum, where you belong? Ass Effect / Protocol dialogue system was designed for dumbfucks with severely damaged Wernicke's area, unable to comprehend written language (and incidentally, form logical conclusions, since logic, reasoning, mathematical ability and written language comprehension are all situated in Wernicke's area of the brain). The dialogue system sucks Ass, and it's irrelevant whether it's for an Effect or according to Protocol.

There is nothing wrong with cloning good games, but cloning abominations such as Ass Effect, that failed at combat, failed at character system, failed at user interface, failed at dialogue system and failed at quest design is beyond comprehension.

 

[entertainer]

 

[sheek]

I like how 6 out of 9 skills are combat skills (count toughness as a hit point increaser letting you fight longer).

For the super secret agent you only have 3 skills that aren't centered around killing things.

 

[made]

LOL What's with the nerd glasses? I haven't really been followig this game; tell me you can customize the protagonist's appearance?

 

[kris]

LOL What's with the nerd glasses? I haven't really been followig this game; tell me you can customize the protagonist's appearance?

I can say yes without even knowing. You will most likely have a couple of faces to choose between. Like KOTOR and Mass effect.

 

[made]

ME actually had a pretty impessive face gen system. Probably the best feature in that game.

 

[circ]

Well.. The fact that you couldn't recreate default Shepard or Kaidan (even close) with the editor sucked. And all the eyes were really bad. Your guy ended up looking strangely asian/hispanic -- no white aryan faggots. Hairstyles were horribly toupe-like, but better than NWN 2 ones. It was in short better than Bethesda's retard simulator but impressive? No.

 

[sheek]

Fallout 3 had a decent face generator.

 

[poocolator]

troll-stuff

[...] dumbfucks with severely damaged Wernicke's area, unable to comprehend written language (and incidentally, form logical conclusions, since logic, reasoning, mathematical ability and written language comprehension are all situated in Wernicke's area of the brain) [...]

x 300
Janjetina makes overkilling trolls delicious.

 

[themadhatter114]

So it looks like Mass Effect. Who cares? Was the look of Mass Effect what made it a bad game?

Hey, are there going to be hundreds of crappy guns and a terrible inventory screen? Is there going to be this really horrible vehicle that you drive around barren planets? Is the game going to include inane quests like "Hey Mike Thorton can you negotiate peace between this religious civilian guy and the police officer who wants him to move off the street?" "Can you resolve a dispute between this retired General and his whore?"

My goodness if you're complaining because the dialogue system is similar and because the skill screen looks the same you need to get a life. There was nothing wrong with the actual Mass Effect dialogue system. It was really no different than any other. Claiming that it's actually cool and innovative is annoying, but the system in and of itself was fine. Alpha Protocol's system might be worse because of the timer and the stance system, but that doesn't make it like Mass Effect.

The game itself was in production well before Mass Effect was released. They both use UE3 and they're both 3rd person RPG/shooters. Most of the other elements that they'll have in common will be shit that they have in common with just about any other RPG. Oh my gosh Thorton uses guns and so did Shepard! It's the same fucking game!

Why don't you take Morgoth's hand in marriage and live happily ever after on the ESF forum, where you belong? Ass Effect / Protocol dialogue system was designed for dumbfucks with severely damaged Wernicke's area, unable to comprehend written language (and incidentally, form logical conclusions, since logic, reasoning, mathematical ability and written language comprehension are all situated in Wernicke's area of the brain). The dialogue system sucks Ass, and it's irrelevant whether it's for an Effect or according to Protocol.

There is nothing wrong with cloning good games, but cloning abominations such as Ass Effect, that failed at combat, failed at character system, failed at user interface, failed at dialogue system and failed at quest design is beyond comprehension.

Like I said, what evidence is there that they are cloning the quest design, which was probably the worst part about Mass Effect?

The dialogue system, like I said, was fine. Occasionally you'd get a line you didn't expect, but even when everything is spelled out dumb writers would occasionally give you a line that could be taken more than one way. Designing the damn thing was a major waste of time, though, and hyping it even more ridiculous. I don't think it's unlikely that two different companies, when designing a game for a console, would have the bright idea of having dialogue where you don't really know what your character is going to say. Mass Effect was probably just ripping off the snarky/nice system from the Bard's Tale remake, anyway, which annoyed you intentionally.

The combat and character system in Mass Effect were decent, I thought. I just thought it was stupid that you'd have a character with terrible aiming and abilities even though he starts off with a high military rank and is supposedly the best humanity has to offer from the very beginning.

Other than the terrible inventory system, I can think of little else that was problematic with the user interface in Mass Effect. Perhaps the PC version sucked; I just rented it for the 360.

If Mass Effect was so absolutely terrible in every way it's hard to imagine that any of you even played it. You probably bought it and played through it 100 times and now you're just thinking back about how terrible it was. Get over it.

 

[Rosh]

Like I said, what evidence is there that they are cloning the quest design, which was probably the worst part about Mass Effect?

Really? I thought it was a shitty CRPG and shitty shooter wrapped into one, pretentious at both while offering sub-standard gameplay in both. Judging from the shitty shooter action and lobotomized dialog system presented thus far...

The dialogue system, like I said, was fine. Occasionally you'd get a line you didn't expect, but even when everything is spelled out dumb writers would occasionally give you a line that could be taken more than one way.

Are you on crack? That dialogue system was horrible. It led to limited responses as the responses desired were most often based upon direction.

Now with the "stances" idiocy, the responses are even more banal. "Oh, gee, I don't want to piss them off. I guess I shouldn't push the 'Smartass' button. Back to mashing the 'smile, nod, and kiss ass' button." I guess depth in dialog will now consist of changing around the buttons to make sure the player is still awake.

Designing the damn thing was a major waste of time, though, and hyping it even more ridiculous.

Fine = waste of time? The progressive descriptions of yours, regarding the dialog, is quite illuminating. It shows that with more and more effort being put towards thought, even you can start to make comparisons and formulate a few complex thought structures.

I don't think it's unlikely that two different companies, when designing a game for a console, would have the bright idea of having dialogue where you don't really know what your character is going to say.

Yeah, but when you put Obsidian's work alongside BioWare's, there's far too many consistencies to for any "unlikely"s to really be considered. BioWare's been wet nursing Obsidian for how long? And suddenly we're supposed to believe it's going to stop?

Mass Effect was probably just ripping off the snarky/nice system from the Bard's Tale remake, anyway, which annoyed you intentionally.

Yet you say the dialog system was fine.

The combat and character system in Mass Effect were decent, I thought.

You obviously haven't played anything good or, in deference to you, merely decent.

I just thought it was stupid that you'd have a character with terrible aiming and abilities even though he starts off with a high military rank and is supposedly the best humanity has to offer from the very beginning.

Wow, even you are capable of spotting bad design.

Who would have thought?

I also thought it rather amusing that they have no background information, basic knowledge of the star system, or even really of where they were stationed last.

I guess a minor Cadet School sequence to determine your starting skills and fill in some background information about the universe so you didn't come across as a total amnesiac, a nod to System Shock 2, would have been too much class to expect from BioWare.

KoTOR was a great game, despite some of my technical grumbles about the engine. That, I will admit. The characters, the background, and the design for the most part was decent to me, and it stands among the better of Star Wars titles. The light/dark decisions were along the setting lore, and the game had a bit of depth in terms of setting to answer a few of the possible backgrounds of the peoples, even if the combat was the biggest load of shit this side of Mass Effect. The sequel was simply a shortened munchkinfest of pointless equipment upgrades through a similarly munchkinfest character power system. After a while, even on the hardest difficulty through my first playthrough, combat got so predictable and easy.

BioWare and others just haven't been trying lately.

Other than the terrible inventory system, I can think of little else that was problematic with the user interface in Mass Effect. Perhaps the PC version sucked; I just rented it for the 360.

The Frogger Mini-Game, for one.

If Mass Effect was so absolutely terrible in every way it's hard to imagine that any of you even played it. You probably bought it and played through it 100 times and now you're just thinking back about how terrible it was.

I said three times, to give it a chance by thoroughly exploring several aspects of the game. By far, the most rewarding was very similar to the "EXTREME!" Let's Play thread in RPG Discussion.

Get over it.

You like shit. Get over it.

 

[Dark_Paladin_Anti_Hero]

The combat and character system in Mass Effect were decent, I thought. I just thought it was stupid that you'd have a character with terrible aiming and abilities even though he starts off with a high military rank and is supposedly the best humanity has to offer from the very beginning.

I was under the impression that the hardest difficulty (what you bring your character through after beefing them up through the game the first time) is what is considered canon. Although, I don't know who besides LPers could stomach playing it through once, much less twice.

I agree with Rosh that a SS2 type system would have worked better, even though tutorials suck. While we're in the realm of what could have been... Instead of plopping you down as a war hero, they should have deleted all the mindless planetary side quests and instead have you start as a nobody and rise up in the ranks until you work your way up to getting the Normandy and going on the main quest.

 

[Rosh]

I agree with Rosh that a SS2 type system would have worked better, even though tutorials suck. While we're in the realm of what could have been... Instead of plopping you down as a war hero, they should have deleted all the mindless planetary side quests and instead have you start as a nobody and rise up in the ranks until you work your way up to getting the Normandy and going on the main quest.

You don't even need it to be a tutorial, but you could sneak in tutorial subroutines for first-time players. Instead of having it a walk-through that assumes the player is a video game virgin or a complete moron, sometimes mandatory every playthrough, it would have you simply make class choices, in the context of what specific fields of interest you would study in the Cadet School.

It would have also allowed to show some preliminary choice and consequences, the BioWare kryptonite, to set a background story for the character. As you went through Cadet School, you would have undoubtedly have met/influenced a lot of current folks. Each year through the school, you would pick your courses and your cliques. To follow the gang member background, you stuck around the fringe cadets. For tech/bio, you would have gone into labs for that to discipline those talents. Over the years of study, it would not only establish your starting skills (showing you how to use them or allowing you to easily go through the skill check, such as a hacking mini-game), but also a character background that could later tie into story events if the authors wished.

You graduate, jump a bit forward in time, and the spots in service not covered by the Cadet School sequence could be filled in with background data. Like your own service record, the results of past missions based upon your previous decisions in Cadet School. This would also serve to give a bit more background and emotional tie between the character and the player.

Then at a later time while you're visiting a system, you might suddenly run into your old study partner. Instant preferential treatment in the system. Or maybe underworld connections. Prototype weapons, amps, etc., as an old Science Club fellow couldn't help but show off some company gear and it suddenly ends up in your hands because the company is just thrilled at having an officer give it a field test. Cue more interactivity. More possibilities could be offered as well.

 

[themadhatter114]

Like I said, what evidence is there that they are cloning the quest design, which was probably the worst part about Mass Effect?

Really? I thought it was a shitty CRPG and shitty shooter wrapped into one, pretentious at both while offering sub-standard gameplay in both. Judging from the shitty shooter action and lobotomized dialog system presented thus far...

The dialogue system, like I said, was fine. Occasionally you'd get a line you didn't expect, but even when everything is spelled out dumb writers would occasionally give you a line that could be taken more than one way.

Are you on crack? That dialogue system was horrible. It led to limited responses as the responses desired were most often based upon direction.

Now with the "stances" idiocy, the responses are even more banal. "Oh, gee, I don't want to piss them off. I guess I shouldn't push the 'Smartass' button. Back to mashing the 'smile, nod, and kiss ass' button." I guess depth in dialog will now consist of changing around the buttons to make sure the player is still awake.

Designing the damn thing was a major waste of time, though, and hyping it even more ridiculous.

Fine = waste of time? The progressive descriptions of yours, regarding the dialog, is quite illuminating. It shows that with more and more effort being put towards thought, even you can start to make comparisons and formulate a few complex thought structures.

I don't think it's unlikely that two different companies, when designing a game for a console, would have the bright idea of having dialogue where you don't really know what your character is going to say.

Yeah, but when you put Obsidian's work alongside BioWare's, there's far too many consistencies to for any "unlikely"s to really be considered. BioWare's been wet nursing Obsidian for how long? And suddenly we're supposed to believe it's going to stop?

Bullshit. Name one thing that's the same between the two games that's so out of the ordinary that there's little chance it could be a coincidence.

Mass Effect was probably just ripping off the snarky/nice system from the Bard's Tale remake, anyway, which annoyed you intentionally.

Yet you say the dialog system was fine.

Yes, do you understand what 'fine' means? It means that it's adequate and nothing to endlessly bitch about even if it is moderately annoying at times. And my point stands. There's nothing unusual about a system where you don't actually know precisely what your character is going to say. It's moderately annoying at times, but pretending that Bioware came up with it and Obsidian stole it from them is retarded.

The combat and character system in Mass Effect were decent, I thought.

You obviously haven't played anything good or, in deference to you, merely decent.

You obviously are a moron.

I just thought it was stupid that you'd have a character with terrible aiming and abilities even though he starts off with a high military rank and is supposedly the best humanity has to offer from the very beginning.

Wow, even you are capable of spotting bad design.

Who would have thought?

I also thought it rather amusing that they have no background information, basic knowledge of the star system, or even really of where they were stationed last.

I guess a minor Cadet School sequence to determine your starting skills and fill in some background information about the universe so you didn't come across as a total amnesiac, a nod to System Shock 2, would have been too much class to expect from BioWare.

And get rid of the sidequests entirely, and do several or all the missions for the Admirals before you even get noticed by the Council. Regardless, in Alpha Protocol you start off competent, which fits with the character, and I'm not expecting that there are retarded sidequests where some hooker asks a government agent to help her appease her client who's fallen in love with her.

KoTOR was a great game, despite some of my technical grumbles about the engine. That, I will admit. The characters, the background, and the design for the most part was decent to me, and it stands among the better of Star Wars titles. The light/dark decisions were along the setting lore, and the game had a bit of depth in terms of setting to answer a few of the possible backgrounds of the peoples, even if the combat was the biggest load of shit this side of Mass Effect. The sequel was simply a shortened munchkinfest of pointless equipment upgrades through a similarly munchkinfest character power system. After a while, even on the hardest difficulty through my first playthrough, combat got so predictable and easy.

BioWare and others just haven't been trying lately.

Decent characters + decent background + decent design + shit combat = great game, but Mass Effect = less than decent. You are a moron.

Other than the terrible inventory system, I can think of little else that was problematic with the user interface in Mass Effect. Perhaps the PC version sucked; I just rented it for the 360.

The Frogger Mini-Game, for one.

I think the 360 version had a ridiculous Simon Says mini-game. It was retarded and easy.

If Mass Effect was so absolutely terrible in every way it's hard to imagine that any of you even played it. You probably bought it and played through it 100 times and now you're just thinking back about how terrible it was.

I said three times, to give it a chance by thoroughly exploring several aspects of the game. By far, the most rewarding was very similar to the "EXTREME!" Let's Play thread in RPG Discussion.

I'm sure if you played through it three times it was at worst an adequate experience. If you play through a game that you hate three times and you're not getting paid for it, you're a moron.

Get over it.

You like shit. Get over it.

You won't stop playing shit. I'd rather enjoy it.

 

[Rosh]

Bullshit. Name one thing that's the same between the two games that's so out of the ordinary that there's little chance it could be a coincidence.

The 40+ thread at Penny Arcade, the numerous other sites with people similarly pointing out the...similarities.

I could go on, but it seems like only you and Obsidian both have difficulty spotting the similarities, a number of which already listed in this thread, yet you're too stupid to really notice them.

Yes, do you understand what 'fine' means? It means that it's adequate and nothing to endlessly bitch about even if it is moderately annoying at times. And my point stands. There's nothing unusual about a system where you don't actually know precisely what your character is going to say. It's moderately annoying at times, but pretending that Bioware came up with it and Obsidian stole it from them is retarded.

Oh, no, it has "stances"! It's completely different than the directional dialog formula of Ass Effect!

The combat and character system in Mass Effect were decent, I thought.

You obviously haven't played anything good or, in deference to you, merely decent.

You obviously are a moron.

I'm not the one who can play shit and like it.

And get rid of the sidequests entirely, and do several or all the missions for the Admirals before you even get noticed by the Council. Regardless, in Alpha Protocol you start off competent, which fits with the character, and I'm not expecting that there are retarded sidequests where some hooker asks a government agent to help her appease her client who's fallen in love with her.

Nope, instead we have loads of spy thriller cliches to work with!

Decent characters + decent background + decent design + shit combat = great game, but Mass Effect = less than decent. You are a moron.

Exactly what from Alpha Protocol promises to be decent? I haven't seen that yet from Obsidian in the years they have been stringing along what remains of their reputation.

I'm sure if you played through it three times it was at worst an adequate experience. If you play through a game that you hate three times and you're not getting paid for it, you're a moron.

As I said before, but you're too stupid to understand, I have a background in game design. Since I already paid for the thing, I might as well see exactly the extent of BioWare's latest attempt at relevance in the genre.

It didn't take me three playrthroughs to see that it was shit. I could tell it was shit from the start, but I was going to see what BioWare might have attempted. This is in regards to both the attempt to be a shooter, as well as the supposed CRPG gameplay.

On the other hand, I'm sure you'd open into the "Waaah, you didn't give it a chance! You didn't play through the game enough to make a good judgment." if I stated that I couldn't play through Mass Effect a single time. I almost didn't make it through a first time, but I stuck it out because of the professional in me. I wanted to take a critical look at the design by seeing what extent BioWare provided for choice and consequences in both a noble side as well as an "EXTREME!" side, along with one that made seemingly ambiguous choices. The merciless executioner style was the most fun, while the ambiguous path would lead to comedy similar to listening to Three Dog's reports in Fallout 3 as a villain that did occasionally good deeds depending upon the circumstances.

"You won't believe what that fucking Defiler is up to...blah, blah, blah...good job, 101!"

You won't stop playing shit. I'd rather enjoy it.

I've long stopped playing Mass Effect. I'd rather play better games, but the industry just isn't interested in them much anymore. Not even Obsidian.

 

[Lurkar]

I'm confused, are we angry at Mass Effect, Alpha Protocol, or both?

 

[themadhatter114]

Bullshit. Name one thing that's the same between the two games that's so out of the ordinary that there's little chance it could be a coincidence.

The 40+ thread at Penny Arcade, the numerous other sites with people similarly pointing out the...similarities.

I could go on, but it seems like only you and Obsidian both have difficulty spotting the similarities, a number of which already listed in this thread, yet you're too stupid to really notice them.

And I'm sure that they're not 99% superficial. "What, an RPG with guns!"

You actually listed that one. Because apparently you think that Obsidian stole from Bioware the idea of making a 3rd person action RPG with guns.

Yes, do you understand what 'fine' means? It means that it's adequate and nothing to endlessly bitch about even if it is moderately annoying at times. And my point stands. There's nothing unusual about a system where you don't actually know precisely what your character is going to say. It's moderately annoying at times, but pretending that Bioware came up with it and Obsidian stole it from them is retarded.

Oh, no, it has "stances"! It's completely different than the directional dialog formula of Ass Effect!

And the directional dialog formula was such an innovation and so different from A Bard's Tale and so different from traditional dialog systems that Obsidian just had to copy it and couldn't come up with a moderately annoying system on their own.

The combat and character system in Mass Effect were decent, I thought.

You obviously haven't played anything good or, in deference to you, merely decent.

You obviously are a moron.

I'm not the one who can play shit and like it.

Yes, you just play shit that you don't like.

And get rid of the sidequests entirely, and do several or all the missions for the Admirals before you even get noticed by the Council. Regardless, in Alpha Protocol you start off competent, which fits with the character, and I'm not expecting that there are retarded sidequests where some hooker asks a government agent to help her appease her client who's fallen in love with her.

Nope, instead we have loads of spy thriller cliches to work with!

Oh shit, a few spy thriller cliches in a spy game!

Decent characters + decent background + decent design + shit combat = great game, but Mass Effect = less than decent. You are a moron.

Exactly what from Alpha Protocol promises to be decent? I haven't seen that yet from Obsidian in the years they have been stringing along what remains of their reputation.

I'm sure that it will have decent character + decent background + decent design + shit combat, and thus will be a great game.

I'm sure if you played through it three times it was at worst an adequate experience. If you play through a game that you hate three times and you're not getting paid for it, you're a moron.

As I said before, but you're too stupid to understand, I have a background in game design. Since I already paid for the thing, I might as well see exactly the extent of BioWare's latest attempt at relevance in the genre.

It didn't take me three playrthroughs to see that it was shit. I could tell it was shit from the start, but I was going to see what BioWare might have attempted. This is in regards to both the attempt to be a shooter, as well as the supposed CRPG gameplay.

On the other hand, I'm sure you'd open into the "Waaah, you didn't give it a chance! You didn't play through the game enough to make a good judgment." if I stated that I couldn't play through Mass Effect a single time. I almost didn't make it through a first time, but I stuck it out because of the professional in me. I wanted to take a critical look at the design by seeing what extent BioWare provided for choice and consequences in both a noble side as well as an "EXTREME!" side, along with one that made seemingly ambiguous choices. The merciless executioner style was the most fun, while the ambiguous path would lead to comedy similar to listening to Three Dog's reports in Fallout 3 as a villain that did occasionally good deeds depending upon the circumstances.

"You won't believe what that fucking Defiler is up to...blah, blah, blah...good job, 101!"

I don't give a fuck if people give games a chance. I'll play a demo or read an in-depth review, and I do something novel: I don't buy the fucking game. I downloaded the demo for that other 3rd person action-RPG using UE3, Too Human, and it was fucking terrible, so I didn't buy it. The wonders of the free market system where we have the option of voting with our wallets, and yet you just buy up shit and then play it three times to justify your wasted expense. You might as well just pay $40 bucks for an actual pile of shit and then eat it just because you paid for it. And that way you'll encourage more people to sell you piles of shit.

I don't have to get butthurt about games that I bought knowing that I wouldn't like them, because I don't buy them. You should try it, unless you value bitching more than you value playing good games, which is a valid economic decision if you feel that you have to pay for Mass Effect in order to get the pleasure of having complete knowledge to enable your incessant bitching.

You won't stop playing shit. I'd rather enjoy it.

I've long stopped playing Mass Effect. I'd rather play better games, but the industry just isn't interested in them much anymore. Not even Obsidian.

And you'll probably buy it, anyway. And if not that, you'll buy another shitty game. To enhance your bitching.

 

[Rosh]

You poor little sucker; you stupid little shit. I set up the pieces, and now you've stepped in it.

Let's have fun with your own arguments, shall we?

And I'm sure that they're not 99% superficial. "What, an RPG with guns!"

You actually listed that one. Because apparently you think that Obsidian stole from Bioware the idea of making a 3rd person action RPG with guns.

Please, for the benefit of yourself, list a time in Obsidian's development where they haven't been sucking from BioWare's ass? After Baldur's Gate was released, Obsidian developed ONE TITLE that was worth a shit. They haven't done anything remotely like it since.

Fallout 3: This title had so many false starts on it, along with the dubious design in Fallout 2 (New Reno) that it became obvious that BIS/Interplay weren't really serious about this title except in terms of shitty spin-offs. Apparently the development team that was left couldn't handle Interplay's own IPs, like:
Stonekeep 2: Kept going on for five years until Feargus realized that 3d is harder to do than 2d, and that he didn't really have that many people trained to make the process go smoothly. Well, that and the money crunch in 2001 pretty much killed all of the creativity at BIS.
TORN: Speaking of smooth as a colonoscopy slide, the screens released for TORN weren't that impressive, yet it was their only other chance besides Stonekeep 2 and Fallout 3 to keep an IP going at BIS.
Lionheart: When you have the developers of Star Trek: Away Team approach Feargus and say "Hey, buddy, can you help us develop one of those big time games like at your studio? C'mon Feargus, please?!" and so it takes more time actually teaching Reflexive how to design a "Feargus CRPG" than actually designing it, there's an idea that should have been aborted long before its birth.

Instead of those marginal (and often laughable) attempts at creativity and their own IP, let's look at what BIS/Obsidian really does:

After Fallout 2 (and the exodus of talent), there was a title called Planescape: Torment. After BIS' one good attempt at a game, which was done well despite the Infinity Engine, BIS did little more than shovel out dungeon crawlers while riding on the hopes and hype of their regularly canceled titles. It got so bad at BIS for awhile, they started taking cues from BioWare, which hasn't stopped yet.

So, with years of chasing BioWare around, what reason should I have to suddenly now believe the new fish around Obsidian? Is Anthony Davis aware that BIS/Obsidian has more wasted team manpower years, funds, and been given a free cred ride in the industry because of their good titles about a decade ago, than Jon Romero?

Fallout and PS:T are the only reasons why Obsidian still has any real rep left in this industry. Else the others like Descent to Undermountain, Stonekeep 2, TORN, "They're working on Fallout 3...AGAIN!" "Wake me up if they actually get something done this time.", and now Aliens RPG, would have long put them on the same level as BioWare's overhyped dungeon crawlers (which is probably what they are hoping for). If anyone is deserving of more shit than Jon Romero in this industry, it would be BIS/Obsidian, because that has been their style for...over a decade now.

And the directional dialog formula was such an innovation and so different from A Bard's Tale and so different from traditional dialog systems that Obsidian just had to copy it and couldn't come up with a moderately annoying system on their own.

So I take it we're agreed on Obsidian copying, then. Using something that sucked the first few times it was used isn't going to suddenly make it any better now, though it does mean they don't have to worry about people having problems reading their dialog.

I'm not the one who can play shit and like it.

Yes, you just play shit that you don't like.

The joke is on you, which I'll get to in a bit. I certainly don't like bad games, but they have their own facepalm charm at times. Kind of like an Ed Wood Jr. movie.

Oh shit, a few spy thriller cliches in a spy game!

So much for originality or coming up with a few of their own. But hey, Obsidian's been chasing the cliché since they started following BioWare.

I'm sure that it will have decent character + decent background + decent design + shit combat, and thus will be a great game.

If it's going to be full of spy clichés, then how does that remotely resemble "decent"?

I think the word you're looking for is "derivative", which more than suits as an adjective for Obsidian's style. Derivative of BioWare.

I don't give a fuck if people give games a chance. I'll play a demo or read an in-depth review, and I do something novel: I don't buy the fucking game. I downloaded the demo for that other 3rd person action-RPG using UE3, Too Human, and it was fucking terrible, so I didn't buy it. The wonders of the free market system where we have the option of voting with our wallets, and yet you just buy up shit and then play it three times to justify your wasted expense. You might as well just pay $40 bucks for an actual pile of shit and then eat it just because you paid for it. And that way you'll encourage more people to sell you piles of shit.

I don't have to get butthurt about games that I bought knowing that I wouldn't like them, because I don't buy them. You should try it, unless you value bitching more than you value playing good games, which is a valid economic decision if you feel that you have to pay for Mass Effect in order to get the pleasure of having complete knowledge to enable your incessant bitching.

The nephew wanted to try the game, else I wouldn't have bothered. But I was figuring I would play the game to see what BioWare might have tried to learn since I last mistakenly bought one of their titles.

I did make him play through it entirely once and tried a bit myself as well through that playthrough, which was a basis for the different playthroughs in other ways. I found it amusing that the boy went from the typical paragon of virtue to getting annoyed with the game in little time at all, and started into the renegade/shoot everything path.

This is a kid (I call him kid, but he's 19 now) that tends to like FPS games, but only if they are done well. Your arguments against buying shit games is one I have used myself for years against buying poor games. Mass Effect was neither CRPG or shooter done well, and it looks like Alpha Protocol is going the same way.

That is why I haven't bought anything from Obsidian since they made an appalling mess of KoTOR 2, which is kind of funny since it's damn near the same storyline as the first. Yet folks claim that Obsidian isn't chasing around BioWare - look at their released titles! If you believe that they aren't chasing around BioWare after having a look of their released titles - you're either an idiot or an industry newbie. Hello, Anthony Davis.

I've long stopped playing Mass Effect. I'd rather play better games, but the industry just isn't interested in them much anymore. Not even Obsidian.

And you'll probably buy it, anyway. And if not that, you'll buy another shitty game. To enhance your bitching.

So...you're saying that I should buy Alpha Protocol, too?

I'm confused, are we angry at Mass Effect, Alpha Protocol, or both?

With how there's little difference between BioWare and Obsidian...there's a difference between the two? Ah, right. Spy gadgets and stealth!

 

[Volourn]

"KoTOR was a great game, despite some of my technical grumbles about the engine. That, I will admit. The characters, the background, and the design for the most part was decent to me, and it stands among the better of Star Wars titles. The light/dark decisions were along the setting lore, and the game had a bit of depth in terms of setting to answer a few of the possible backgrounds of the peoples, even if the combat was the biggest load of shit this side of Mass Effect"

The fact that you believe that KOTOR is a great game let alone better than ME is beyond retarded, and pretty nullifies anything you have ever written. Then again, you are a moron so your opinion on KOTOR is just icing on the case. Outside of a couple of BIO games I haven't played, and SOU, KOTOR is BIO's worse. And, you fuckin' think it's great? WTF?

ME does everything KOTOR does but better. Better combat, better graphics, better music, better universe, better role-playing, better characters, better story, better writing, better, better, better.

Seriously, are you on fuckin' crack? Espicially since all you did was bash KOTOR before? LMAO

Rosh = Dinkazoid


R00fles!

 

[Rosh]

The fact that you believe that KOTOR is a great game let alone better than ME is beyond retarded, and pretty nullifies anything you have ever written. Then again, you are a moron so your opinion on KOTOR is just icing on the case. Outside of a couple of BIO games I haven't played, and SOU, KOTOR is BIO's worse. And, you fuckin' think it's great? WTF?

When it comes to writing and offering SOME kind of persistence of player decisions through the game, KoTOR did it far better than Mass Effect, even if it was mostly binary in nature. It showed that BioWare can do some kind of choice and consequences, even if it has to be taught to them by LucasArts.

The characters were also some of the best I've seen in any CRPG lately. They weren't the annoyingly emo shits found in Baldur's Gate 1&2, and certainly not the soul-less canon fodder as found in Mass Effect. There was some good story interaction between them, and when it came time, you could decide to kill some of them off in unclean Sith fun.

To me, the responsiveness of the world, other characters, and setting, was what made KoTOR playable. In Mass Effect, if you do something - horray! You get a different speech file played.

On that note, I can't believe we're arguing between BioWare games.

ME does everything KOTOR does but better. Better combat, better graphics, better music, better universe, better role-playing, better characters, better story, better writing, better, better, better.

Hahahaha, no. Even a binary decision fork with binary resolution path is better than three decisions leading to the same path.

Seriously, are you on fuckin' crack? Espicially since all you did was bash KOTOR before? LMAO

KoTOR 2 was my main irritation, though the first one had its problems. KoTOR 2 was simply a rushed game with too much emphasis put upon munchkinish item upgrades over any setting length and depth. It felt like a tourist's guide version of the first one, but just with all the background scenery changed.

Compared to better shooters, and better CRPGs, I'd rate Mass Effect as pretty craptacular. It certainly is pretty, but it's also certainly craptacular. The characters are more lifeless than I've ever seen in a BioWare game, the combat is total Whack-A-Mole with bullets because kiddy video game designers don't have a clue about combat besides cover (like they see on TV!), and the dialog system is one I would have thought even BioWare would have to admit "No...no...that is total crap."

R00fles!

Sometimes I've missed you, Volourn. :D

 

[circ]

ME does everything KOTOR does but better. Better combat, better graphics, better music, better universe, better role-playing, better characters, better story, better writing, better, better, better.

I wince at your retort. Better, smoother combat I'll agree with. That doesn't make it good what with such an incompetent party.

Better graphics, hmmm well. You had sharper textures and more polygons for models. Other than that it was a copy/paste job. So no.

Better music agreed. But then KoTOR was Jeremy Soule, so not hard to outdo that. It's almost cheating.

Better universe ugh. Granted Lucas has assraped his own franchise better than a dead plant could, but that doesn't make the ME universe, with its blatant rip-offs and not a single original or interesting idea, good.

Better role-playing? I suppose. Whatever you did in KoTOR, you would most likely want to be a Jedi or Sith. In ME you can be 6 classes or so. Not very interesting classes but still. On that note, I found the skills in KoTOR to be more fun as well.

Better characters? I'll have to disagree. KoTOR characters, like Jade Empire characters are the exact same as Mass Effect characters. Only the names were changed and in some cases, the voice actors. This is not entirely true, but BioWare never bothers to go the extra step. Big quiet and/or angry warrior - JE check. KoTOR check. ME check. Betrayed male character with trust issues - JE check. KoTOR check. ME check. Young naive idealist - JE check. KoTOR check. ME check. There have been tiny little variations on these formulas, but they're all essentially there. You can look at the missing portraits in JE on your first playthrough to guess what archetype fits which shadowed silhouette. And you'll be right. There have been a few exceptions, but like I said, BioWare doesn't care. Drunk chef in Jade Empire. Jolee Bindo in KoTor. Well no one in ME. Maybe a comic relief character was too much for such an epic and mature game as Mass Effect.

Better story and better writing. Right. You have I assume, just seen an LP of ME on the forum. And you'll notice how a lot of people cringe at the dialogue and writing. That should suffice. That doesn't mean KoTOR's formulaic writing was in any way OMG worthy.

You're all about the latest BioWare game Volourn. I'm sure when DA: O is out, you'll find some faults with Mass Effect.

 

[Volourn]

"And you'll notice how a lot of people cringe at the dialogue and writing."

Yeah, like I give a fuck what Codexers think enough to have them make my mind up for me? Give me a fuckin' break.


"You're all about the latest BioWare game Volourn."

O RLY? Must explain why NWN is my favorite BIO game over all, and BG2 is my favorite 'official campaign'. Are you drunk when you come up with this lame accusations?


"you'll find some faults with Mass Effect"

I already can and do? I repeat my question above.... Are you drunk when you come up with this lame accusations?




-------------



Rosh: Just the fact you are actually defending a BIo game and claiming it is 'great' amuses me to no end. That's hilarious!

 

[circ]

I forgot to put in a word for NWN. I apologize. It being such an.. well, excellent game, in some way. I have yet to discover how. If there's one good thing to be said about BioWare that should be obvious, it is that they've never managed to make as atrocious a game again as NWN.

Thinking the side missions were unnecessary and not BioWare's best work like every other BW fanboy doesn't really make you critical of faults in ME.

 

[Rosh]

Rosh: Just the fact you are actually defending a BIo game and claiming it is 'great' amuses me to no end. That's hilarious!

In context with the thread title and the authors, comparatively it is great.

Even though all of BioWare's titles are dumbed-down shit. There, happy?!