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Alpha Protocol

Vibalist

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Azrael the cat said:
Vibalist said:
Guys, AP is a pretty decent game, but don't tell me any of you would've praised it if it was Bioware who had released it. Because you damn well know you wouldn't have.

Oh bullshit. The sheer amount of insults and crap that we stood up to when insisting that AP was quality when everyone else was leaping on the Skyway-wagon, with our chins raised like troopers as we copped turd after turd splattering from all directions of the Codex, and stood our ground nonetheless, proudly declaring our 'sort of felt it was pretty decent'-ness as we wiped our faces clean between the seemingly endless sludge. I don't think you can really go the 'you're just going for KKKredits by praising an Obsidian game' with this one kiddo - the Mass Effect fans were treated like kings compared to the shite that we put up with at the time.

Doesn't really matter if the codex gave you shit for liking AP, does it? I still suspect half of you would've been on the AP hatewagon if it had been a Bioware game.

Fact of the matter is that some people here will forgive Obsidian for things they wont forgive Bethsoft or Bioware for.
 
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Vibalist said:
Fact of the matter is that some people here will forgive Obsidian for things they wont forgive Bethsoft or Bioware for.

You are talking to us normal people, not those idiots, so behave nigga. :smug:
Another fact of the matter is that not everyone is a mindless fanboy, and some people genuinely like AP for what it is, not because it was made by Obsidian, get over it already. Shit, AP was actually the first Obsidian game I played through. And after New Vegas, I'm really tempted to give MotB a try.
 

Vibalist

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Okay then, I just don't get how AP is remarkably different from the type of games that are usually bashed around here, like Mass Effect.
 

Sceptic

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Azrael the cat said:
Oh bullshit. The sheer amount of insults and crap that we stood up to when insisting that AP was quality when everyone else was leaping on the Skyway-wagon, with our chins raised like troopers as we copped turd after turd splattering from all directions of the Codex, and stood our ground nonetheless, proudly declaring our 'sort of felt it was pretty decent'-ness as we wiped our faces clean between the seemingly endless sludge. I don't think you can really go the 'you're just going for KKKredits by praising an Obsidian game' with this one kiddo - the Mass Effect fans were treated like kings compared to the shite that we put up with at the time.
:love:

I LIKE ALPHA PROTOCOL THIS MUCH
 

Xor

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Azrael the cat said:
Vibalist said:
Guys, AP is a pretty decent game, but don't tell me any of you would've praised it if it was Bioware who had released it. Because you damn well know you wouldn't have.

Oh bullshit. The sheer amount of insults and crap that we stood up to when insisting that AP was quality when everyone else was leaping on the Skyway-wagon, with our chins raised like troopers as we copped turd after turd splattering from all directions of the Codex, and stood our ground nonetheless, proudly declaring our 'sort of felt it was pretty decent'-ness as we wiped our faces clean between the seemingly endless sludge. I don't think you can really go the 'you're just going for KKKredits by praising an Obsidian game' with this one kiddo - the Mass Effect fans were treated like kings compared to the shite that we put up with at the time.

:bro:

Vibalist said:
Doesn't really matter if the codex gave you shit for liking AP, does it? I still suspect half of you would've been on the AP hatewagon if it had been a Bioware game.

Fact of the matter is that some people here will forgive Obsidian for things they wont forgive Bethsoft or Bioware for.

The only test I use for whether I like a game or not is this: did I have fun playing it. I had enough fun with AP to play through the game three times within a few months of buying it; that's way better than any Bioware game I've ever played, where I usually wait a year or so if I even bother playing through them again.

So yes, maybe I'd forgive some things in AP that I wouldn't forgive in, say, ME, but that's because I had considerably more fun with AP. It has nothing to do with the companies who made either game, except that I doubt Bioware could ever produce something as fun as AP.
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
Vibalist said:
Okay then, I just don't get how AP is remarkably different from the type of games that are usually bashed around here, like Mass Effect.

There are objective criteria:

1) The sheer number of choices
2) A plot that is not broken and does not rape its own lore
3) Realistic characters that actually have an attitude WHICH maintains itself and benefits/ opposes your goals.
4) A larger amount of RP mechanics options.
 
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Captain Shrek said:
villain of the story said:
Seolas said:
The problems are well stated but this is still a game I couldn't help but like and was dismayed by the fact it tanked as I think they might have nailed it with a sequel. The espionage RPG genre is massively underutilized and while Deus Ex: Human Revolution played with stealth could be pretty good, I want more Bond/Bourne-esque type RPGs.

This game had neither espionage, Bond or Bourne.
....

Every time you post, I wonder if you really played the game:

*Espionage: The game had lots. It has hidden side-plots, conspiracies to uncover and stealth + gadgets of infiltration. But it does take some skill and intelligence to actually find them/make them work.

*Bond/Bourne: I accept that the One liner approach is a bit missing, but since Bourne is essentially introverted, I can fault you there.

It is a console corridor shooter aspiring to be something else. That's why it tanked.

Non sequitur.

villain of the story said:
Where do you people manage the find the "good writing" in AP when the protagonist punk inserts internet memes and pretentious jokes into every single thing he says and yet, the other party is usually completely oblivious to it and keeps on the serious buziness façade as if he's in a monologue? "Good writing" has come a long way since PST, obviously. If this shit was in any other game, it would be written off as fan-fic. And in fact, it was: DA:O. Occasionally there is good writing, usually uttered by a few of the other characters, but the quality of exchanges leaves it high and dry.

Or the "good level design" where as soon as you unsuspectingly go through a door, previous parts of the level is immediately cut off and for no apparent reason at all either? Or NPCs evil guys (hard to refer to cannon fodder as NPCs) that materialize out of thin air in the next room? The "good level design" that dwells in console hell with "action spots"? Mmm where have I seen that: oh right, almost exclusively in console shooters! Splinter Cell or Hitman series has better level design and hands more freedom to the player.

When Molyneux announced that he'd turn game menus into playable 3D areas, everyone here laughed their asses off but I guess it's cool when Obsidian does it, renaming overglorified 3D menus into "safehouses" without any purpose or freedom.

This is not even an espionage game. This is a "choose your corridor" shooter game. You jump between mission areas. That's it. And the way the missions are self-contained is just way too sterile. Where are the established hallmarks of espionage in popular culture?

Where is the "stalk and observe the target" mission? Oh, there is the looking at a 3D screensaver from a fixed position and playing popamole with a sniper rifle part. You know, I remember the same from a dozen action games. Yeah, that's usually an action game staple but even those do it better. NOLF, anyone? That's how that shit is made. Now that I think about it, even Thief had a rather well-made stalking mission.

Where is the "safehouse is compromised, escape through the roofs and streets" mission? Where's the "gain information and locate target" where you'd stroll through many locales, talk to many peoples without having to sneak or shoot anybody unless you asked the wrong people? Where are those airport / train station / subway / on the plane / on the train / in the subway missions where you meet strangers, exchange information, maybe do it with the wrong strangers, etc. etc. everything that one normally thinks of when hearing the words espionage or spy thriller?

Alpha Protocol has NONE. Do I hear someone say "down with the clichés!"? Well, then I guess good riddance because AP is straight a shooter with some other stuff thrown in; it manages to sidestep almost every single thing that should have been in an espionage game and yet claims the title. It has nothing to do with espionage. Instead, it has missions full of bad guys where you may get +5 or -5 bad guys or this or that gun depending on your resource management. Here's a hint: many console shooters already do a number of these.

No, Alpha Protocol is a very badly mediocre console shooter with a very few but quality highs. I'm constantly amazed how some of you manage to make it more than it is. Do you ever play any other games? I mean, like, at all? If you think AP is good, be assured that there are much better fish in the pond and you are missing a world of wonders. On the other hand, does Obsidian devs (ever play any other games)? One would think that they would have all the right kind of material in the world to make an awesome espionage RPG, however short, instead of trolling us with a corridor shooter.

Funnily enough, New Vegas feels much more like a proper espionage RPG at times because the game actually has a basically working system with stealth and even disguises and even an open game world to support all of that! AP is pathetic.

Yeah, that's right, bitches!
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
villain of the story said:
Yeah, that's right, bitches!

I think this was already answered so I did not pain myself to repeat it. But you can check on the previous page.

Nobody is denying that AP was an incomplete game. Please read my OP carefully. It is a gre..good Game however. That is what I am saying. It could definitely have been better, no doubt.
 

Vibalist

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Captain Shrek said:
Vibalist said:
Okay then, I just don't get how AP is remarkably different from the type of games that are usually bashed around here, like Mass Effect.

There are objective criteria:

1) The sheer number of choices

that lead to very few consequences

2) A plot that is not broken and does not rape its own lore

Erm, sure. But when does ME rape its own lore, aside from the ammo clip thing?

3) Realistic characters that actually have an attitude WHICH maintains itself and benefits/ opposes your goals.

Realistic characters such as Brayko and Heck, you mean?
I will agree to the fact that some of the characters are realistic, such as the Marburg and Leiland, but for me the game becomes even more silly when it throws these characters in with the completely unrealistic ones, such as Brayko, SIE and Heck, rather than just sticking to either silly or non-silly characters.
As for the characters being conistant, well sure. Too bad that pissing them off/sucking up to them has little to no effect on the game as a whole, just like the rest of the C&C.

4) A larger amount of RP mechanics options.

Compared to Mass Effect, maybe. I agree that AP is marginally better when it comes to roleplaying mechanics than all of Bioware's recent offerings, but just because something is slightly better...
AP might be closer to a roleplaying game than ME, but it's still so obviously a coridor shooter with limited rp mechanics, and as such in the same vein as all the other console shooters out there. The fact it has a bit of RPG sprinkled here and there hardly makes it much better than all the other cover shooters the Codex loves to bash on.
 

cogar48

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Aug 16, 2010
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Safehouse to Main Missions only game structure is the gay. Also needs less dialog wheel and more skill balance, more skill checks, more customization, more world interaction, more side quests, no more forced boss fights, etc.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Vibalist said:
Alpha Protocol has considerably more choices with consequences than almost any other RPG. Only games with more CnC I can think of are the Way of the Samurai games. Contrast with, for example, Fallout: ALL your choices in Fallout are settled in the ending slides. In Alpha Protocol, almost all of your actions either have consequences in immediate missions of the operation or significant alterations in the final mission.

I believe he meant realistic in the sense that their personalities are actually personalities that also have consistency and firmness to them. As for pissing them off or befriending them not mattering, bullshit on that. A couple of examples: To kill Marburg in Rome, he must hate you. To learn that Scarlet was the assassin and avoid getting shot, you need good rep with her. Relationship with Leland as built over the course of the interrogation cutscenes opens up new options (most notably a supreme moment of lying smugness). You can get Albatross' crew to come after you in AP's island either by being friends with him, OR by having killed Sis and the guy hating your guts to begin with. Killing either Albatross or SIE in Moscow effects your possible backup in the final mission, as do your choices with Deng and the Taiwanese president.

I believe the thing with lore-rape is that AP doesn't have any retarded WHAT A TWEEST moments. The plot is also contained entirely in the game and doesn't hinge a massive number of gaping plot holes on "explained later for IT IS A MYSTARY!"

Alpha Protocol has RPG mechanics that matter, moreso than in, for example, Deus Ex. But more importantly, it does a damn good job in accomondating storyfag RPing by providing usually three options for Thorton's behaviour, and even if you mixed them it managed to keep Thorton's character consistent.
 

Sceptic

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Vaarna_Aarne said:
Relationship with Leland as built over the course of the interrogation cutscenes opens up new options (most notably a supreme moment of lying smugness).
Um, hello? It most notably opens up TWO ENDINGS. Out of the 3 the game has (I'm not counting the "who's with you on the boat" thing, as that depends on a bunch of other factors).

Pretty much agree with the rest of what you said.

Freelance Henchman said:
What I hate most is that I'll never find out now what the hell was up with Sis and her pendant thing.
Yeah you do. If she's alive when you meet Albatross in the park in Moscow you can keep pushing him until Thornton sort of pieces it together (you lose reputation with Albatross if you do, but he pretty much asks you to drop it beforehand, so it's not too surprising).

Admiral jimbob said:
Shut up skyway.
:smug: :love:

Oh yeah and obligatory :mca:
 

circ

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Vaarna_Aarne said:
Vibalist said:
Alpha Protocol has considerably more choices with consequences than almost any other RPG. Only games with more CnC I can think of are the Way of the Samurai games. Contrast with, for example, Fallout: ALL your choices in Fallout are settled in the ending slides. In Alpha Protocol, almost all of your actions either have consequences in immediate missions of the operation or significant alterations in the final mission.
I think this was looked over back when AP shipped, but whatever. People are actually calling it a good game because of the C&C now? The flavor C&C? AP deserved its crappy reception, but let's look at the C&C.

Spare some arab guy in the desert missions or kill him: didn't do anything that I remember.

Sneak kill arab on the bridge: some achievement unlock. Either way, you get a gold plated badly modeled AK derivative.

Recruit Heck before dealing with Brayko: Heck poisons Brayko's coke stash, making the ridiculous fight easier. Although having tried both aproaches a few times, I couldn't tell the difference.

Spare mute girl: Albatross is nicer and something. Woopty doo.

Blablabla.

Join Halbech, destroy Halbech. Join or kill Halbech guy. Ride off with boat alone or with someone. Game over.

True C&C would be if the story changed altogether. If the missions changed considerably, my options changed. As it is, they don't.
 

Ermm

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I have almost completed Russian stages, but I haven't played this game for like 3 weeks and it is sitting on my hard drive.
Plot could have been better if tone of the game would be more serious and not another tongue in cheek or how is it called.
Gameplay is mediocre, everything about this game is mediocre.
It has huge amounts of C&C, but sheer mediocrity doesn't give urge to replay the game, and to see different outcomes.
 

Sannom

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circ said:
Spare some arab guy in the desert missions or kill him: didn't do anything that I remember.

Recruit Heck before dealing with Brayko: Heck poisons Brayko's coke stash, making the ridiculous fight easier. Although having tried both aproaches a few times, I couldn't tell the difference.

Spare mute girl: Albatross is nicer and something. Woopty doo.

Sparing Shaheed can lead to a different end boss if you decide to side with him to destroy Alpha Protocol in the end. I hear it also makes it possible to ally with Parker instead of fighting him, because Michael can convince him that Westridge and Leland are going to let him hold the bag about Alpha Protocol.

Heck poisoning that coke makes the fight a lot easier.

Sparing Sis prompts Albatross into offering an alliance and his stash of equipment at a greatly reduced price. Very nice.
 
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Sannom said:
Sparing Shaheed can lead to a different end boss if you decide to side with him to destroy Alpha Protocol in the end. I hear it also makes it possible to ally with Parker instead of fighting him, because Michael can convince him that Westridge and Leland are going to let him hold the bag about Alpha Protocol.

There's a few different ways of turning Parker, depending on what you've done over the game. If you find out a certain connection between him and another character, you can inform him of a certain event that he's unaware of, that will turn him. If you've collected enough of the right info about Halbech, AP and Parker, you can also convince him that his calculations are off regarding likely future events (doesn't require sparing Shaheed).
 

Sannom

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You seem to have experienced those moments Azrael, what happens exactly? You have to protect Parker instead of fighting him? He proposes to help you bring down Alpha Protocol?
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
Sannom said:
You seem to have experienced those moments Azrael, what happens exactly? You have to protect Parker instead of fighting him? He proposes to help you bring down Alpha Protocol?

Parker actually can help expose Leland by downloading all files on AP. Yes, you have to protect him. If you find enough dossier entries on
Madison
he attacks Marburg.
 

Sceptic

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Captain Shrek said:
he attacks Marburg.
Which may actually NOT be the best outcome if you've already convinced Marburg to betray Leland, as Marburg then figures out that there is only one person who could've told Parker and then turns against you anyway.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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As for the supreme moment of smugness, slamming Leland's face to the table after earning his trust through lies was very satisfying. Then again, Thorton is also smug as hell when he tells Parker why his calculations are wrong.
 

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