Am I the only person who doesn't want Starcraft 2?

[Saint_Proverbius]

I didn't even like Starcraft really. Total Annihilation is king until maybe SupCom comes out.

I tend to agree. There was also WarZone 2100, which kicked ass. Submarine Titans was pretty good also. Both those two games actually borrowed from Total Annihilation, though. Oh, and the Warlords Battlecry games were pretty nifty. Kohan was okay to boot.

Other than those, I haven't been able to get in to any RTS games. I used to really enjoy the genre, but most of the big name games have disappointed me.

 

[Atrokkus]

2saint:
Didn't you like StarCraft's story?

 

[kingcomrade]

Starcraft's story was about on par with a Final Fantasy story. zomg lookie i drew kerrgan wif no clothes!
Starcraft's plot
1. u gotta make a base
2. zomg! aliens! oh noes!
3. run away lol
4. ok kill humans they're bad guys
5. lol u win ure king of human places!
6. oh noes! kerrigan is zerg!
7. kerrigan does some nasty things
8. oh noes! more aliens!
10. ok now ure space elves. run aronnd and kill stuff
11. lol his swords turned off
12. ok now u gotta kill the zerg worms
13. oh noes! they still alive, go find dark eldar
14. i mean, dark templar
15. ok they can kill worms
16. yay you killed teh overmind!!!!

Starcraft's plot is overrated.

 

[Nutcracker]

Starcraft shits on Warcraft; especially Warcraft 3, which is a cartoony piece of crap.

 

[Deacdo]

I don't like RTS games. I'd rather see Diablo 3 (though, TBH, I don't really like the Diablo games, either).

Well, anything is better than another MMORPG

 

[xemous]

Completely wrong. Starcraft unit alchemly is more advanced that warcraps, and every unit counts, you don't lose them en masse. It has a more intensive micro and macro management game. Warcraft is a childs version of starcraft, think of it as Starcraft training wheels, but the kiddies never get off them, they just ditch the bike when they're done.

StarCraft *is* more intensive, micro-wise, I've already said that and provided examples.
*But* it all boils down to balance and *player skills*.
WarCraft3's balance is being polished very well now and soon it'll reach and maybe even surpass that of SC (well, it prolly won't surpass, but still). That's what really counts here.
The "difficulty" and "intensity" of a game is a very subjective matter. That is, it'll be extremely difficult for an inexperienced player play vs gosu ANYWAY, no matter whether they play SC or WC3:TFT. Warcraft is not training wheels. Try to fucking win some tourney and then tell me what's training wheels and what's not.

Winning a tourney to define a competitive game is a load of shit. WCIII doesn't have enough variables so a game against a mid range player vs once thats been playing for years will be very even sided, because the game is limited in what one can do. As you said, there is no map control, expansions mean moot, the taxing with the gold, the limited amount of units, the pathetic and sub par micro, the idiotic experience points gained by killing NPCS, the chance of 5 - 12 damage types. You said some of these your self. A good competitive RTS will incorporate as many different balanced variables as possible, to make for exciting and creative match, not that predictable garbage that is Warcraft III.

There is a reason the prize money is rubbish for WCIII, and that fact that every gook in melbourne plays it UMS only.

And StarCraft is perfectly balanced, any unit imbalance in your opinion is easily made up for by skill, unlike the crapfest that is WCIII.

Find me an exciting match in WCIII that didn't have two pussies running there armies away from each other until the smart one said ``hey, wait a minute, this is a complete load of shi-'' and ran it into the other one, died, then uninstalled.

 

[xemous]

No I'm not really keen on a StarCraft II, but I wouldn't mind an expansion to catch the rest of the story.

 

[kingcomrade]

No I'm not really keen on a StarCraft II, but I wouldn't mind an expansion to catch the rest of the story.

I was saying that they could just use the Warcraft 3 engine to make Starcraft 2 while they made their next RTS.

 

[undead dolphin hacker]

Fuck Supreme Commander. It's all about Rise of Legends.

 

[xemous]

Agreed, I too am in anticipation of one `Rise of Legend.'

 

[Atrokkus]

2 xemous:
I've played both games extensively and for a pretty long while, and I see the difference, definately. You said it right - on many aspects war3 seems like a little dumbed-down version, but still it does not change the fact that skill is supreme, and you can't possibly just go buy the game, train for a week and win Grubby or some korean. It requires a lot of practice and a lot of talent, so you can't really assess that there is skill-factor is small in war3. It just doesn't compute, alright? Just observe the scene, or, better yet, be a part of it, and you'll understand that.

 

[kingcomrade]

Pac-man takes a lot of practice too.

 

[LlamaGod]

blizzard's strategy games suck

 

[xemous]

YOU TOTALLY SUCK !

`the cosmic ballet, goes on'

`my work here is done'

'what do you mean your work, you didn't do anything'

`didn't I?'

*disappears*

http://www.weakgame.com/?show=2633

 

[Atrokkus]

Jokes aside, care to name at least a few other RTS that surpass Blizzard's in terms of multiplayer gameplay and balance, or at least come close? Just interesting, cuz I've played many, but still StarCraft remains an RTS etalon for me.
Of course, singleplayer, setting and story are all matter of taste and cannot be argued, really.

 

[xemous]

Nothing so far has come close to surpassing StarCraft. Although BattleRealms IMO is better than WCIII. And I had heaps of fun with TA at a lan, (I just rush with one peewee at a time and keep suiciding his metal extractors while I gain minerals). Wouldn't mind giving TA a go online, but they took down that cavedog service.

 

[Atrokkus]

Although I don't play StarCraft and Warcraft that much now, I still keep on track with the cybersport news.

Fuck was I pleasantly surprised to see that SlayerS_Boxer won the semifinal match on the best league in the world, Korean OnGamenet Starleague! Damn that guy sure is the Immortal Terran Emperor! Many people thought that the old generation (Red-Nada, Boxer, Yellow) has sank into oblivion, but Boxer just keeps emerging!
He played vs Pusan[S.G]. Here are the VODs:
game 1
game 2
game 3
game 4 (this one is gold, lightningfast vulture and tank micro, as always)
game 5

Also, if you are interested in the upcoming WorldCyberGames2005 grand final, here is the group drawing for SC:BW.
Of course, there is little doubt about the victors - Koreans, obviously! I bet Xellos shall reign supreme, he's a very talented terran.

 

[xemous]

thanks for the VODS, mEtaLL1x.

 

[xemous]

Damn, doesn't work

 

[Atrokkus]

strange, it's working for me. I had to switch off my firewall tho.

try the alternative links:

game1
game2
game3
game4

 

[xemous]

game 1 and 2 work,

 

[Atrokkus]

Tough luck, have no more alternatives for the 3,4,5 games. Use some smart dl manager, like Download Master, and switch the firewall for it, maybe that would help.

Hey, what speed do you have? I haven't downloaded them yet so don't whether they are FP or partial-FP or pure observer with commentaries. I hope it's the former.

 

[xemous]

wah

 

[kingcomrade]

I was just playing Starcraft for a while this morning. God I hate Protoss. Protoss have a really big advantage, called "time." Their soldiers cost 2x as much, but they don't take much longer to build. They're so easy to win with.

I do enjoy watching people who are really good at Starcraft, unlike War3. What sites do you get these things from? Also, can you get them as replay files? Much smaller, and I could look around as I wanted.
And without all this obnoxious screaming in Korean by the commentators.

edit: lolz azns all luk teh same

 

[Atrokkus]

I was just playing Starcraft for a while this morning. God I hate Protoss. Protoss have a really big advantage, called "time." Their soldiers cost 2x as much, but they don't take much longer to build. They're so easy to win with.

Well, the fastest are the zerg. But actually, all three races, despite being very different, are pretty well-balanced right now. This is the cornerstone of any strategy, and StarCraft has the best one.

What sites do you get these things from?

oh, lots of. Replays are just everywhere. Gotfrag.com, replays.net (that's korean, if memory serves)... I also use some of Russian sites - progamer.ru and cyberfight.ru, and you can use them as well, cuz there is english interface there and it's pretty easy to browse the replays.
good VODs are much more difficult to find. I mean the real good ones, with first-person camera, not just rips from Korean TV-channels (like those i posted). I know of a good forum where I get links to the good warcraft3 vods (www.tourney.ru), but I am currently unaware of soemthing similar but for starcraft, although I have pretty many of them on my harddrive, and on my friend's.

I hope someone will get good VODs from WCG2005 and post it on the net. I've seen the vods from the last year's, but they were only from observer's point of view.
VODs from Korean leagues almost never have first-person viewports...