Review And Book Review He Did

[kris]

by the way. Was a wise decision of Gaider to leave this forum before he released this book.

 

[-Pavlos-]

Page 128 - "No, i do not wish to sleepeth with thou... but i senseth that i haveth no say in the matter so i shall do it anyway."

Sorry, but this is a pet-peeve of mine. The first person singular cannot "sleepeth", he can only "sleep"; the third person, and all plurals, "sleepeth" and because you are expressing a wish, it should be in the subjunctive, so it should be "sleepe", unless -- of course -- you were writing in Early Modern English in which case "sleep" will do just fine.

"Thou" is possessive, it's like saying "I don't want to sleep with your", which is nonsense. Translated into modern English you're saying:

"No, I do not wish to sleeps with your... but I senses that I haves no say in the matter so I shall do it anyway"

Which may be an endearing manner of speech for a five year old but really...

 

[Shannow]

"Thou" is possessive, it's like saying "I don't want to sleep with your", which is nonsense.

"Thy" is possesive. "Thou" is "you". Just looked it up. But I was quite sure before.

You should pet your peeve more :D

 

[-Pavlos-]

"Thou" is possessive, it's like saying "I don't want to sleep with your", which is nonsense.

"Thy" is possesive. "Thou" is "you". Just looked it up. But I was quite sure before.

You should pet your peeve more :D

We all make mistakes

 

[WalterKinde]

I wasnt even aware that this book was already out and that they plan more of them.
I'l admit here and now i am familiar with the table top rpg spinoff novels of Forgotten Realms, Shadowrun, Greyhawk, Dragonlance etc and have only ever read one video game rpg spinoff novel that being Planscape:Torment.
But i have to say the some of the amazon.com reviews (as opposed to the amazon.co.uk reviews) seems likes it more shilling than a review of a novel.

One of the gushing reviews

This is a prequel novel to the upcoming video game Dragon Age: Origins, by Bioware. I was reading it more to `get in the mood' for the game than anything, and I had very low expectations, to be honest. And I was blown away.

I'm giving it 4 stars, and that is judging it against all fantasy, not against "pre-generated world" fantasy (novels based on games, movies, tv series, etc). Within that sub-genre it's a 5 star book, easily.

As the story begins, a cruel usurper sits on the throne of Ferelden, and the Rebel Queen has been betrayed and murdered. The only member left of the royal family is young Maric, a charming but slightly inept princeling, now on the run for his life. He soon teams up with a young commoner named Loghain, and the two set off to reunite with the rebel army, and begin the daunting challenge of trying to push the usurper from his ill-gained throne.

There's a bit of game-ness to the book here and there as character classes are mentioned, but it isn't very intrusive and if you didn't know it was a game-prequel novel, you might not even notice it.

The story has everything you could ask for in a fantasy. A noble, seemingly impossible quest, great battles, characters who feel very real, and who interact in ways that also feel very human. A smattering of magic and strange creatures. Joy and pain, victory and defeat. All written with genuine emotion.

A nice change of pace is the way elves are handled, and particularly elves, who are definitely second class citizens in this world, scraping by working as servants and living in squalid quarters of most cities.

Seems like your typical Wizards Of The Coast Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance novel.

now one of the 2 star reviews

This is the official prequel tie-in for the upcoming Bioware RPG Dragon Age: Origins, which I read out of excitement for the game. In short, the novel features a handful of cardboard characters who are being pushed through plot number 17a of the fantasy novel cookbook. There are many tedious sword fights, and amazingly little magic.

Spoilers ahead!

The story is about Prince Maric, who is heir to the throne of Ferelden. But currently the evil usurper Meghren sits there, reigning as the extended arm of the Orlaisian emperor. We see Maric bumbling along as the leader of the rebellion, supposedly following his coming-of-age and turning into a worthy future king, yet all along you rather wish that his mentor Loghain takes matters into his capable hands.

The evil Orlaisian oppressors show their evilness by being suitably cruel to the people of Ferelden, lots of mindless slaughter and putting severed heads on spikes. Meghren himself shows up only a few times. That's no loss, he is no more than a choleric nut. There is his court mage by the in-your-face name Severan, who we are supposed to fear most, but he also gets little screen time, and his motives, while clearly spelled out, are just not convincing enough to care about.

The only marginally interesting person is Kathriel, initially a spy in the employ of Severan; yet soon we loose the sense of mystery and danger about her and just know that she will have to fall for Maric. It's a rule! And so the box for "dramatic change in attitude in tragic side character" can be checked.

Lots of sword fights and clashes of Orlaisian troops and rebels ensue, but it always feels like just another fight to show that these people really do struggle. Also, we never get a sense of place, distance or time. The rebels move all over the map, it's hard to understand why and how this helps to get rid of the invaders.

More cliches are being ticked off on the checklist: a mysterious, foggy forest with moving trees, a wicked witch with a prophecy, the storywise inconsequential return of dragons (but hey, "Dragon Age" - remember?), long abandoned underground tunnel systems carved by - who else - dwarves and now inhabited by - who else - giant spiders, mages who dispense a fireball or two and command stone golems, and a mentioning of impending doom in the form of darkspawn. The latter will provide the major conflict for the upcoming computer game, as we know from the trailers.

The book really is no more than a guided tour through Ferelden with the implied promise that we will be able to see all these wonderful things with our own eyes in color and 3D once the computer game is out. I had suspected as much, yet had stupidly hoped for more. Here is the thing: even though the novel wasn't enjoyable, it didn't curb my enthusiasm for the game, and I'm still looking forward to it. And I also expect that I will enjoy the sense of deja-vu when I encounter something in the game that has been mentioned in the book. Something good has come of it then.

Some reviewers say its "a deep book" and should not be missed others that its "an emotional moving novel" reading all of those reviews i'd say the book is more likely your avg based fantasy novel with all the clichés thrown in, In an ironic twist probably exactly how Dragoon Age The Game will be.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Unlike most people here, who only seem to slam this book because it's related to BioWare, I'm slamming it because it's a book based on a game.

15+ years of game novelizations should have shown proof to the entire world that this is a bad idea.

 

[MetalCraze]

No it gets slammed because it is a book by Gaider. 10 years of Bioware games have shown proof that Gaider is a very shitty fan-fic writer who also just can't have his story without the cringeworthy teen romance.
I wouldn't be surprised if even his Dragon Age "book" had recycled characters.

 

[mondblut]

"Thy" is possesive. "Thou" is "you". Just looked it up. But I was quite sure before.

Possessive or not, it should have been "thee". Sleepe with thee.

 

[Azrael the cat]

"Thou" is possessive, it's like saying "I don't want to sleep with your", which is nonsense.

"Thy" is possesive. "Thou" is "you". Just looked it up. But I was quite sure before.

You should pet your peeve more :D

From memory Thou was from when English used to have some of the formal/informal classifications that many other languages still have. I think 'you' was the formal usage, and 'thou' was for people you were endeared to - i.e. good friends and family. Thing is, when addressing people who you knew as colleagues or as loose friends, it would become troublesome which one to use - obviously you'd use 'thou' with family, but using 'thou' to someone who didn't feel quite so close to you was a feau paux akin to the modern situation where one person gives a 'friendship hug' to another person, and that person really doesn't feel like they're on hugging level. Kind of like if you were to try to give a friendship hug in greeting your boss or a work colleague. Hence over time people just used 'you' more and more, it being the safer option, and 'thou' dropped out of the language.

 

[Shannow]

From memory Thou was from when English used to have some of the formal/informal classifications that many other languages still have. I think 'you' was the formal usage, and 'thou' was for people you were endeared to - i.e. good friends and family. Thing is, when addressing people who you knew as colleagues or as loose friends, it would become troublesome which one to use - obviously you'd use 'thou' with family, but using 'thou' to someone who didn't feel quite so close to you was a feau paux akin to the modern situation where one person gives a 'friendship hug' to another person, and that person really doesn't feel like they're on hugging level. Kind of like if you were to try to give a friendship hug in greeting your boss or a work colleague. Hence over time people just used 'you' more and more, it being the safer option, and 'thou' dropped out of the language.

Wikipedia agrees with you. As a German who still distinguish between Du(intimate) and Sie(formal) I can't say that it's difficult in any way.
Anybody who you'd address with his last name is a Sie (you), anybody whom you'd address with his first name would be a Du (thou).
And it's "faux pas".
The Japanese with their chan, san, kun, sama, etc are much more complicated
But this topic realy lead to some interesting tidbits for me. That "thou" is a more intimate form although it sounds so archaicly formal was surprising.

@Mondblut: You are correct (as far as I can tell), but why did you quote me and not SV?

 

[Elzair]

by the way. Was a wise decision of Gaider to leave this forum before he released this book.

What was his handle, BTW?

 

[Rohit_N]

by the way. Was a wise decision of Gaider to leave this forum before he released this book.

What was his handle, BTW?

dgaider

 

[-Pavlos-]

From memory Thou was from when English used to have some of the formal/informal classifications that many other languages still have. I think 'you' was the formal usage, and 'thou' was for people you were endeared to - i.e. good friends and family. Thing is, when addressing people who you knew as colleagues or as loose friends, it would become troublesome which one to use - obviously you'd use 'thou' with family, but using 'thou' to someone who didn't feel quite so close to you was a feau paux akin to the modern situation where one person gives a 'friendship hug' to another person, and that person really doesn't feel like they're on hugging level. Kind of like if you were to try to give a friendship hug in greeting your boss or a work colleague. Hence over time people just used 'you' more and more, it being the safer option, and 'thou' dropped out of the language.

Yes but "thou" is also, and originally, the singular form of "you".

From the OED:

Thou and its cases thee, thine, thy, were in [Old English] used in ordinary speech; in [Middle English] they were gradually superseded by the plural ye, you, your, yours, in addressing a superior and (later) an equal, but were long retained in addressing an inferior. Long retained by Quakers in addressing a single person, though now less general; still in various dialects used by parents to children, and familiarly between equals, esp. intimates; in other cases considered as rude. In general English used in addressing God or Christ, also in homiletic language, and in poetry, apostrophe, and elevated prose.

I believe it goes as follows (though trusting me after the "thou" gaff may be foolish):

Nom. Thou
Voc. Thee
Acc. Thee
Gen. Thy/thine
Dat. Thee
Abl. Thee

 

[made]

I have a sudden urge to play Ultima 6.

 

[poocolator]

Page 128 - "No, i do not wish to sleepeth with thou... but i senseth that i haveth no say in the matter so i shall do it anyway."

Sorry, but this is a pet-peeve of mine. The first person singular cannot "sleepeth", he can only "sleep"; the third person, and all plurals, "sleepeth" and because you are expressing a wish, it should be in the subjunctive, so it should be "sleepe", unless -- of course -- you were writing in Early Modern English in which case "sleep" will do just fine.

"Thou" is possessive, it's like saying "I don't want to sleep with your", which is nonsense. Translated into modern English you're saying:

"No, I do not wish to sleeps with your... but I senses that I haves no say in the matter so I shall do it anyway"

Which may be an endearing manner of speech for a five year old but really...

Pet Peeve sort of like how I fucking hate Hollywood for downplaying weapons/firearms? Yeah... tuff but fucking live with it you ditz.

"Thou" is possessive, it's like saying "I don't want to sleep with your", which is nonsense.

"Thy" is possesive. "Thou" is "you". Just looked it up. But I was quite sure before.

You should pet your peeve more :D

We all make mistakes

No we don't.

 

[GarfunkeL]

And why is Pavlos using SMA's avatar :

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

Stuff

I was making fun of bioware by writing in flawed medival english. Thanks for correcting me though.

 

[random newfag]

I am illiterate, so it would be futile for me to read this book.

 

[DefJam101]

Re: And Review He Did

Stolen Throne feels like the original Star Wars trilogy meets the Harry Potter series

If Gaider I were, cut myself I would.

And cut himself he

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

The only thing that bastard would cut himself on is all the money he's swimming in.

 

[Jasede]

From memory Thou was from when English used to have some of the formal/informal classifications that many other languages still have. I think 'you' was the formal usage, and 'thou' was for people you were endeared to - i.e. good friends and family. Thing is, when addressing people who you knew as colleagues or as loose friends, it would become troublesome which one to use - obviously you'd use 'thou' with family, but using 'thou' to someone who didn't feel quite so close to you was a feau paux akin to the modern situation where one person gives a 'friendship hug' to another person, and that person really doesn't feel like they're on hugging level. Kind of like if you were to try to give a friendship hug in greeting your boss or a work colleague. Hence over time people just used 'you' more and more, it being the safer option, and 'thou' dropped out of the language.

Wikipedia agrees with you. As a German who still distinguish between Du(intimate) and Sie(formal) I can't say that it's difficult in any way.
Anybody who you'd address with his last name is a Sie (you), anybody whom you'd address with his first name would be a Du (thou).
And it's "faux pas".

Thing is, in America colleagues and acquaintances and a lot of other people that we'd address by last name are addressed by their first name, so it's confusing for Amis to learn when to differentiate.

I read Americans are regularly very surprised than in formal German work settings, it is usually a great faux pas to address another with the first name.

Then again, Americans and Germans are incredibly different anyway.

 

[abdwef]

Wow. It looks like I'm the only Codexer who read the full novel.

What I liked best was that there's a good MORAL to this story. Like in a 1980s Transformer's episode, it's spelled out clearly at the end, for those who might miss it. :twisted:

. . .

More seriously, the book just doesn't work. It kind of reminds me of Hercules: The Legendary Journeys, but with occasional over-the-top violence that comes out of nowhere.

The characters really are very shallow. Here, you can see how sinister the villains are for yourselves:

The King, after all, was a bored capricious member of an ancient aristocracy, who had been sent to assume the Ferelden throne only after angering the Emperor--his first cousin and, so the scandalous rumor claimed, onetime lover--and now took out his displeasure on subjects who had little choice but to bow to his whims.

Severan could not have cared less. He was from neither Ferelden nor Orlais, but from across the Waking Sea and far to the north, as his swarthy skin implied. He would have watched his own land be subjugated with no more than a raise of his eyebrow, for mages had no true home at all. His interests were his own, and the King accepted this. Severan's ambition was as reliable as the rising sun, and that was why he remained King Meghren's closest advisor.

I'm not a Bioware hater--I enjoyed Jade Empire--but I really wonder about the decisions behind Dragon Age. What gets me is that they could stuck with a zero-risk Forgotten Realms ripoff, billed as the spiritual successor to BG2, and guaranteed a return on investment. There was no need for all this dark and gritty nonsense, that simply fails to deliver.

Let me put it this way: I was all set to pick this up in October, but this book has made sure that I'll be trying before buying.

 

[Jaesun]

Some .... weird creepy... feeling actually makes me want to read this book for some reason. Maybe in like watching a train wreck in slow motion feeling.

Anyways, I need to finish The Host first before picking this up.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

More seriously, the book just doesn't work. It kind of reminds me of Hercules: The Legendary Journeys

Hercules did work because at least it had decency to be tongue-in-cheek and didn't take itself seriously.

 

[Shannow]

Thing is, in America colleagues and acquaintances and a lot of other people that we'd address by last name are addressed by their first name, so it's confusing for Amis to learn when to differentiate.

I read Americans are regularly very surprised than in formal German work settings, it is usually a great faux pas to address another with the first name.

Then again, Americans and Germans are incredibly different anyway.

I don't see the problem. They could simply stick with their easygoing informality and call collegues and aquaintances "Du". It doesn't affect the general rule at all. The only problems arise through cultural clashes of Germans and Amis. Nothing to be done there except raising awareness of the "problem" beforehand. And I don't know where you live but I hardly call anyone "Sie" anymore. Mostly only strangers that are older than me and my profs. At university everybody uses "Du". So much so that it makes me uncomfortable when 50-60 year old doctors or secretaries "Duz" me although we haven't met before. Same in the army. Some of my direct superiors would use my last name and the "Du". Usually the more incompetent ones. And I hear US American influence in (at least) large companies like Siemens is so strong that they pretty much behave like the people at university and nearly everybody uses "Du" ... Decline.

@abdwef: Are those quotes directly out of the book? That'd be really, really bad. Show, don't tell. One of the basic concepts even an ignorant like me knows. Not to mention that "he is evil because he is evil, durr" is the worst characterisation for the villain you can have. And of course we need at least one evil (sand)nigger