Review And Book Review He Did

[kris]

Severan's ambition was as reliable as the rising sun, and that was why he remained King Meghren's closest advisor.

I don't get this. How is his ambition reliable? Is it just reliable that he have one? Is his ambition great or small? What are his goals?

Maybe that is explained somewhere else, but this sentence just say nothing on its own.

 

[poocolator]

You fuck with codex, this is what happens:
BAD STUFF
Oh yeah.. NSFW & Graphic warning.

We eat yer arm off, nigga.

 

[Lesifoere]

The King, after all, was a bored capricious member of an ancient aristocracy, who had been sent to assume the Ferelden throne only after angering the Emperor--his first cousin and, so the scandalous rumor claimed, onetime lover--and now took out his displeasure on subjects who had little choice but to bow to his whims.

Ah, so one of the villains may be gay. Gaider truly has aligned his interests with that of the Codex! DEATH TO THE HOMOS. DEATH TO DECADENCE.

Severan could not have cared less. He was from neither Ferelden nor Orlais, but from across the Waking Sea and far to the north, as his swarthy skin implied. He would have watched his own land be subjugated with no more than a raise of his eyebrow, for mages had no true home at all. His interests were his own, and the King accepted this. Severan's ambition was as reliable as the rising sun, and that was why he remained King Meghren's closest advisor.

"As his swarthy skin implied" lol.

It's not god-fucking-awful, but this is... yeah, it's Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance level of mediocre-shit-banal. But then, I'm sure people who enjoy RA Salvatore will make up the primary target audience, so that's that.

 

[poocolator]

yes

 

[Data4]

Unlike most people here, who only seem to slam this book because it's related to BioWare, I'm slamming it because it's a book based on a game.

15+ years of game novelizations should have shown proof to the entire world that this is a bad idea.

Richard Knaak's War of the Ancients trilogy based on Warcraft isn't too bad. It's not Pulitzer Prize material, but I was compelled enough by interest in the story to finish it. Compare to Salvatore's Dark Elf trilogy, which I was compelled to throw into the fireplace after every couple of pages, but finished out of morbid curiosity.

 

[RuySan]

Are there any good fantasy novels besides Discworld anyway?

I was reading "Sons of Hurin" by Tolkien and it was a pain to finish. I don't remember tolkien's writing being so poor, but i was 15 when i read Lord of the Rings, so now i'm sure i won't open it again and let the good memories remais.

 

[MetalCraze]

You would think that with their budget they will hire a normal writer at least once.

 

[Lesifoere]

Are there any good fantasy novels besides Discworld anyway?

I was reading "Sons of Hurin" by Tolkien and it was a pain to finish. I don't remember tolkien's writing being so poor, but i was 15 when i read Lord of the Rings, so now i'm sure i won't open it again and let the good memories remais.

Sure? What kind of fantasy would you like? I'm going to assume you don't go for the shitty elves-dragons-save-the-world garbage, so I'll recommend China Mieville, Jeff VanderMeer, and Catherynne M. Valente as starters: new weird, experimental stuff, though Valente has a very different tone and style to the other two. Mary Gentle for alternative history and a really smashing fictional city in Rats and Gargoyles (or the omnibus White Crow) as long as you can put up with characters acting like they're batshit insane and plots being nearly impossible to make sense of. You could also pick up Moorcock--not the Elric stuff, but say Gloriana and Dancers at the End of Time, which are much more interesting and better-written. Speaking of older writers, Jack Vance's Lyonesse trilogy is pretty good too. Zelazny's first five Amber books, though those are not his best works. Ken Grimwood's Replay is also quite fascinating; it's not what I would call "fantasy" (it seems more sci-fi to me) but it won a World Fantasy award, so whatever.

For an easier read, Scar Night by Alan Campbell and The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch are decent. Not very literary or intellectually challenging the way some of the above stuff is, but they're fun and their plots don't rely on saving the English countryside from the morally linear Dark Lord. Robin Hobb also offers some fairly traditional fantasy that's not too traditional and explores venues more interesting than the usual: her Liveship Traders trilogy has dragons and shit, but they're mostly about politics, trade, and character-driven drama.

I could go on for a long time. There's a lot of crap in the genre, but also a fair share of really good material. But as I said, it depends on what you like, and if you think Discworld's the only good fantasy, I'm not sure how much you will enjoy VanderMeer/Mieville/Valente etc because, when you come down to it, Terry Pratchett is fun but very, very light.

 

[Shannow]

George R. R. Martin: Medieval fantasy, dark, gritty, epic
Steven Erikson: Awesome setting, moral grey, real world parabel, intellectually challanging, "cool" characters, army stuff, balanced action, witty dialogues.
David Gemmel: low fantasy, heroic, action.
Greg Keyes: like Gemmel, little less action, more fantasy.
Joe Ambercrombie: like Martin, more dark/gritty, less epic.
Patrick Rothfuss: Great storytelling, low fantasy.
Glen Cook: Army, witty dialogues, very mixed quality. If you like the Discworld crap, you might also like the Garret crap. I'd recommend the Instrumentalities of Night.
K. J. Parker: Weird, slow paced.
Tad Williams: Copies Tolkien
Robert Jordan: Copies Tolkien
Raymond E. Feist: Copies Tolkien and Salvatore
Salvatore: Action, emo, flat, high fantasy
Scott Bakker: Sex, weird, epic.
Tolkien: Try the Hobbit, it's a nice bedtime story.

Depending on your taste all of them can be given a try. I'd start with Gemmell (for action) or Martin (for story). If you like neither, chances are fantasy novels are simply not your cup of tea.

 

[RuySan]

I could go on for a long time. There's a lot of crap in the genre, but also a fair share of really good material. But as I said, it depends on what you like, and if you think Discworld's the only good fantasy, I'm not sure how much you will enjoy VanderMeer/Mieville/Valente etc because, when you come down to it, Terry Pratchett is fun but very, very light.

It's light, but at least it's funny. Mort and The three witches are my favorites.

Come to think of it, there are loads of classics i haven't read yet, so i'm not going to waste my time with fantasy writing any time soon. I'll leave that for my rpg's.

 

[aweigh]

David Gemmel: low fantasy, heroic, action.

Gemmell = god.

I consider this man my surrogate father, having started reading his books in seventh grade.

 

[Lesifoere]

Depending on your taste all of them can be given a try. I'd start with Gemmell (for action) or Martin (for story). If you like neither, chances are fantasy novels are simply not your cup of tea.

No no no no no.

While I like Martin okay, you're dismissing entire sf/f sub-genres/movements. Many of the writers I've listed write things that are nothing like Martin or Gemmell--the new weird writers in particular diverge sharply from the medieval-fantasy-heroic claptrap. It'd be more accurate to put Gemmell and Martin in the same category, as they have much more in common with each other than VanderMeer or Mieville has with either of them, or with Tolkien for that matter.

Come to think of it, there are loads of classics i haven't read yet, so i'm not going to waste my time with fantasy writing any time soon. I'll leave that for my rpg's.

Your loss. As someone who has read canonized literature and even has a degree to show for that shit, I find your "oh, I'm not going to waste time on fantasy writing, pffttt" attitude pretty amusing especially coupled with your preference for Discworld braincandy.

 

[nomask7]

Are there any good fantasy novels besides Discworld anyway?

Plenty of them. The question is whether you are good enough for them. Below, some of my personal favorites that are also some of the best books ever written in any genre or on any subject:

Figures of Earth, The Silver Stallion, Jurgen (James Branch Cabell)

Suldrun's Garden, The Green Pearl (Jack Vance)

Fourth Mansions, Arrive at Easterwine, The Devil is Dead (R. A. Lafferty)

Viriconium (M. John Harrison)

The King of Elfland's Daughter (Lord Dunsany)

The Circus of Dr. Lao (Charles G. Finney)

Vergil in Averno (Avram Davidson)

Many others besides:

http://greatsfandf.com/

 

[nomask7]

Come to think of it, there are loads of classics i haven't read yet, so i'm not going to waste my time with fantasy writing any time soon. I'll leave that for my rpg's.

Your loss. As someone who has read canonized literature and even has a degree to show for that shit, I find your "oh, I'm not going to waste time on fantasy writing, pffttt" attitude pretty amusing especially coupled with your preference for Discworld braincandy.

Yup. As M John Harrison used to say, many of the classics are crap. That would be his professional opinion.

 

[Lesifoere]

Are there any good fantasy novels besides Discworld anyway?

Plenty of them. The question is whether you are good enough for them.

Yes, pretty much this.

Tolkien aside, I agree with a lot of what you've to say about sf/f reading. Scary.

 

[nomask7]

Clearly we are made for each other. Racial and geological barriers not withstanding, maybe we should marry and have children.

But there is a competing explanation: some books are good, some are rubbish, and some people can tell the difference.

 

[Shannow]

Depending on your taste all of them can be given a try. I'd start with Gemmell (for action) or Martin (for story). If you like neither, chances are fantasy novels are simply not your cup of tea.

No no no no no.

While I like Martin okay, you're dismissing entire sf/f sub-genres/movements. Many of the writers I've listed write things that are nothing like Martin or Gemmell--the new weird writers in particular diverge sharply from the medieval-fantasy-heroic claptrap. It'd be more accurate to put Gemmell and Martin in the same category, as they have much more in common with each other than VanderMeer or Mieville has with either of them, or with Tolkien for that matter.

No, no, no. Your missing the point. I'm not dismissing anything. Martin and Gemmell are in my opinion magnets for the broadest reading base with at least a modicum of talent and skill to show for themselves. To interrest somebody for a genre I'll not point him to the weirdest, smallest sub-genre, but to the most popular ones of quality. If neither Gemmell's heroic, action oriented, very readable stories nor Martin's epic storytelling, wordsmithing and characterisation do anything for you and you already tried Tolkien/Pratchet, chances are quite high that fantasy simply isn't for you. But you are right that if someone likes Discworld he might also like other "crazy, funny, weird" stuff.
Seeing that he was simply a troll trying to get a rise and achieving it makes the whole discussion moot though. Don't you think? *g*

When I'm through with Perdido Street Station and the Lies of Locke Lamora I'll give some feedback in my book-thread

 

[Lesifoere]

Nah, I'm not accusing him of being a troll.

The thing, though, is that while I can see your point and even agree, sometimes recommending the most popular (albeit decent) stuff can have the opposite effect: most people harbor the impression that fantasy is nothing but Tolkien derivatives, and while neither Gemmell nor Martin fits that bill, there're still many elements in either writer that appear to confirm the mistaken pre-conception that the whole genre is kind of samey. Medieval Europe, epix scope, heroes, sword and sorcery and so on. Mieville said that a lot of people who read Perdido Street Station and sent him fanmail don't usually read fantasy at all, even.

I feel someone new to the genre could benefit from being introduced to it via some of the more "niche" writers. My own introduction to western fantasy at the impressionable age of fourteen, after all, began with PS:T.

 

[Shannow]

Nah, I'm not accusing him of being a troll.

I am. Posting like he did (provocatively questioning something he can expect many community members to "defend" and then, after been given some answers, dismissing the whole topic as casually derisive as possible) pretty much fits the bill, imo. I just don't care because I like talking about books and authors ^^ I just don't like arguing over taste.

 

[Lesifoere]

Indeed. I'm happy to bookfag-invade and derail the thread. Hell, it beats talking about Gaider's piece of shit any day.

 

[Elzair]

Well, what the hell, I decided to grab a copy and do a review. I am somewhat bored by SF&F right now, so I might as well read some crap for teh lulz!

Here are two initial screenshots.

Don't you just love it when they post a zero modifications scan of the dead-tree version?

I haven't even read an entire chapter, and it is still beginning to piss me off! Basically, some momma's boy prince is running from the guys that just chopped-up his mother into little bits. I don't know how he did it, but Gaider has managed to evoke zero sympathy from me for the boy. Also, here is a passage from the novel.

Maric listened carefully in the darkness for an agonizing moment, but heard nothing. The noise had been a footstep; he was sure of it. He waited longer, not daring to move a muscle . . . and heard it again. Quieter, this time.

Anyone want to play a game of spot the horrible grammar?

 

[Jaesun]

 

[Elzair]

The last 'sentence' is not even a sentence!

 

[Mister Arkham]

Joe Ambercrombie: like Martin, more dark/gritty, less epic.

Nice to find someone else who has read these. Interesting characters, fairly well developed setting, and some nice twisting/killing of the tired old fantasy tropes. Thought that the First Law series kind of petered out at the end, but Best Served Cold has been enjoyable so far.

Also, to hell with this Dragon Age thing. I've no problem with media tie-ins as a rule, because there's obviously an audience for them (and even if it's the idiot masses it's at least getting them reading), but I read through a couple of chapters in the store the other day and it was wholly wretched. The worst kind of fantasy writing.

 

[Chefe]

Are there any romances in this book?